Something important to me and to us all

Ah, I see. It wasnt my choice. I have no idea how this element does what it seems to be doing. I'm trying to reverse engineer these things, not design it from my own imagination. The truth is somebody else discovered this somewhere else a long time ago. It is possible that some other element could have this effect. Once we understand why it does what it does, then I bet we could develop all kinds of cool stuff by testing other isotopes in a similar manner.

There have been three publicly known crashes after which debris was collected and tested.
In all three cases, the materials were determined to be Aluminum and Magnesium.

In any case, the Magneisum samples collected were both almost totally pure and heavier than normal magnesium. (Specific Gravity of 1.866 +- .005)Their weight corresponded to one of the heavier stable isotopes of Magnesium, Mg26. There were also unusually high traces of zinc and strontium and absolutely no detectable calcium. Calcium is is the most difficult element to remove when attempting to achieve pure magnesium. (At least it was before the development of Laser Isotrope Separation techniques) Strontium is not normally present at all, so 500 ppm of strontium and zinc, plus no calcium...
 
The fragments were analyzed by the FBIs Alcohol Tax Division, under the supervision of Dr. Roy Craig. Other samples of these pieces were tested by Oak ridge and Dow chemicals.

The breakdown was as follows:

Magnesium26, nearly 100% pure
containing:

manganese 35 ppm
zinc 500 ppm
chromium 32 ppm
copper 3.3 ppm
barium 160 ppm
strontium 500 ppm

All of this can be found in Hill, pages 226-236
 
decal-200w.jpg

Linkakowski:p :rolleyes:
 
if you read this thread carefully, youll know that I asked everyone to avoid using the internet for information. If you have a book you'd like me to look at, Id be happy to do so.
No links, thank you. But please, do go to the library and share with us what you find.
 
I haven't really seen any evidence of being able to modify gravity in the ways you refer to...it's difficult to imagine within Einstein's framework of spacial geometry>>>>>>>> Artfully Martial to Danny in Japan

If not that, is there nothing within this fantastic universe which might give us reasonable anticipation of FTL travel? Black holes? Bend space? Magnetic? Atom?

<<In regards to the defense debate....I believe that if your opponent has FTL technology, the jig is up and it's time to plead for mercy. It wouldn't be difficult to destroy the planet with our current technology...it wouldn't even have to be a fancy method. Take one of those flying saucers, put a brick on the gas pedal and jump out while it's pointed for olll Gaia.>> Artfully Martial

I hope the odds are better than this.


munk
 
The best book to read is :
Unconventional Flying Objects By Paul Hill

Id recommend the series by Leonard Cramp, but taken with a grain of salt, his methodology isnt totally 100% objective, Id say.
UFOs and Anti-gravity: piece for a jigsaw by Leonard Cramp

The Alien Chronicles by Mathew Hurley is also very interesting

I have a paperback file of all of the NICAP files, they published through barnes and noble. Thats a good resource.

The Paul Hill book will suggest resources to look at, I really hope all of you read that book and do your own research. Note that I did not say "search for those books or authors on the internet and then tell me what somebody said about them in a forum somewhere."
I said go to the library and do some good old fashioned research. Please.

Id like to thank you all for your patience and attention to this thread, it was important to me personally. Id be happy to tell you anything else I can, I have lots of reports and other ideas Ive come up with.
 
Danny, as you know, I can envision several more of these threads in the future. We can't possibly have covered all the implications of FTL travel and or contact with another species.

I hate to say this, but many people are like my wife, and believe we are the only intelligent life form.

I think the Sabertooth Tiger thought that too.



munk
 
I'm very interested in the Fletcher effect, Danny. I think gravitational flux is a probable way in which vistors could reach us. Do you have any leads towards the maximum speeds one could reach using a lens? Is it exponential do you think? The reason I ask, and please keep in mind that my level of quantum physics is very very low, is i believe that near light speed travel is still far too slow for them to reach us. However, that is thinking in human terms. Could organics be perfected to the point that they do not age, i wonder. what's 10 million years when you are immortal. I guess there is always DNA memory, as well. What if a species was based wholy as explorers? All they did was travel. 10's of thousands of generations of explorers all waking up to life knowing what those that came before them knew.
I've shifted mid-topic. Anyway, what are thoughts on the finite speeds of gravity? Do any of you think this would be easier, faster, or more doable than say wormholes or space folding?

Jake
 
With eugenics, it really shouldn't be difficult to live forever, minus being hit by a Buick of course. There are actually immortal cell lines that exist in labs today...in fact, they're not even that common in our bodies, but they are usually demonstrated as cancer.

Spatial folding, if we believe in it, should resemble some sort of gravitationaly weird travel...try to view the universe in Einstein's blanket analogy, so that you can see the distortion when there are large gravitational masses.

And yes, unfortunately, FTL does appear to be a pretty dismal possibility within our current understanding of the universe. There certainly doesn't appear to be anything (including UFOs that we actually observe moving) that moves FTL. Your best bet is going to be found in tachyon theories, but there are some big deal logic problems if you try to live in a relativistic world that has tachyons in it.
 
Jake,
Im sorry I dont know much about all that stuff you just mentioned.
I do know that basically, the speed of light as a speed limit is a deceptive concept. Basically, relativity says that an object cannot be observed to travel faster than light. The object itself may travel faster as reckoned by its own time, however. That means that you can watch an object go .99999999 C (where c is the speed of light) and it looks to you like it took one year to travel one light year. (one year and a day or two) But on board the ship, it only took 12.5 hours.

If Im right about G being the actual speed limit to which relativity applies (G being the speed of gravity) then I dont know what the limit is. I dont know what the effects could be. I know that I have never read a single report describing food or bathrooms or beds in these things, which makes me think that they :
A. arent spending much time on board which means they are going .99999999 c or faster than the speed of light
B. time is sort of frozen on board in some way, or at least significantly slowed down
C. I have no idea

If G is the actual limit and relaitvity does not apply to uniform accelaration fields, then they may be able to travel faster than C in both on board and observer frames of reference. (or some compromise thereof)

The Fletcher Effect - my theory concerning the lensing of gravity. I dont know exactly how it works, but I am almost certain that it does work. Basically, the lens is a composite frame of aluminum with replacable "filaments" of Mg26 spaced even around the outer edge. When these "filaments" are electrically fired, they cause gravity passing through them to be reflected or refracted.
A vehicle may be built with either one lens (flat bottom shapes) or two lenses facing one another (the saucer shape) or a series of alligned lenses in a row (cigar shape). No matter what the design, there should always be at least one lens pointing towards the strongest source of gravity. that means the top side will be curved and the planform (usually) round. This is borne out by the vast majority of reports.

The concentrated gravitational energy is directed both up and down in alternating fields. Pull up - push down - pull up - push down... at a high frequency. (What I call H.F.A.F. - High Frequency Alternating Fields)
This provides propulsion, but it also provides a nullification of inertia.
The cyclic "hum" is a very common observation and it explains the microwave heating of roots and the undamaged stems of those same plants at landing sites.

The fact that the energy being focused by these lenses would appear as a diamond (or two cones joined at the base) is borne out by more than a few phtographs. I believe that the lenses are joined by a rim of other, smaller filaments. this ring in the middle would provide smaller "exhausts" for providing horizontal stability and attitude control. Many people have reported lights around the rim, many people have reported "ports" or windows. I think they were seeing the stabilizing filaments in action.

There have also been more than a few reports where landed saucers exhibited a repulsive field effect above the ship, which would not seem to be necessary for a simple thrust type vehicle.
In one interesting report by Monks, no less, they claimed that the light from their flashligh bent upwards at a sharp angle when they pointed it at the ship and the beam of light went up into the sky...
 
You should try and build one of these devices and test your theory. I don't think Mg 26 is particularly difficult to obtain. Though it might be important to note that, if I remember correctly this element is the product of aluminum decay.

In regards to light speed, yes, it's true that time should appear normal to you, and to observers should see you as in slow motion (though that can't actually see you because of logical issues within the nature of the speed of light...) as you approach the speed of light. This is great for those in the ship, but it's also what invalidates this method of travel for most scientists, because your civilizations would long be gone by the time you got back. Depending on the distance, your solar system, as you know it, might even be gone.

Relativity is kind of a complex logical thing...I'll see if I can get around to it after class today.
 
I intend to do just that when I get home. The first problem is building a small LIS system because pure Mg26 is VERY expensive. Dow asked me for 15,000$ a gram.
A tad out of my budget.

The next step will be assuring the govt that I wont be separating any fissionable materials with my homemade LIS system, something I know might be an issue...
 
Artfully Martial said:
In regards to light speed, yes, it's true that time should appear normal to you, and to observers should see you as in slow motion (though that can't actually see you because of logical issues within the nature of the speed of light...) as you approach the speed of light. This is great for those in the ship, but it's also what invalidates this method of travel for most scientists, because your civilizations would long be gone by the time you got back. Depending on the distance, your solar system, as you know it, might even be gone.
Click to expand...

This is why I believe that travling light speed or at least near it would be problematic for a race coming and going from far off. While jumping in and out of light speed might be easy enough, the effects of time are constant for everywhere else. Think about the changes this planet undergoes in just a few thousand years. By the time you leave, and get back your people might be long gone...or as AM said, even your solar system.
This is why I think folding space and worm holes might be a more viable solution for long distance travel from planet to planet. The race itself may be immortal, but they would have to have come up with a way to harness the universe in such a way that they could not be wiped out by incoming space matter or swallowed by a their sun.
I would think based on the size of the ships that have been reported, that unless they are totally different than us they would have more comfortable living conditions if these crafts were their primary vessles. I would think that a migrating station positioned somewhere out of our scope and maybe cloaked could house the vistors without us being too wise. They could then come and go as they please zipping here and back in no time.

Jake
 
Kismet said:
Does anyone REALLY know what the Canadians are doing up there?
Click to expand...

'specially them frenchy ones that shoot people for speakin english after torturing them with french words & french food, a twisted and debased nawthin version of the proper and heavenly cajun french culture and haute cuisine of loosiana....
 
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