Sorry, but here's my spine wacks...

knifedude802 · Apr 30, 2015

Originally posted about my ZT 0300 failing a light spine wack.

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/1275986-ZT-0300-Disappoints

That thread blew up, got trolled, and erupted into the age old "what is abuse" debate. So I made this video to let people decide for themselves. My opinion is that a $200 knife should be able to do anything and everything a $20 knife can.
Knives tested were Ontario Rat 1, Kershaw Cyro 2, Cold Steel Code 4, and Benchmade Grip 553. I'm tapping them all relatively lightly on a carpeted floor. I just grabbed some random knives, a liner lock, triad, axis and another frame lock for reference.

As a side note, I still love ZT, and even this knife. I have had an old one close on me when I accidentally raised my hand, and the spine hit (lightly) against a branch, which is why I looked into this in the first place.

I don't feel I'm expecting anything unreasonable out of this knife, as I expect it out of every knife. The Walmart 1 buck special (you know you know) takes more pressure to close than this ZT does, and that's why I originally posted.

Nothing against ZT / KAI, lord knows I've spent too many paychecks on their knives. So am I being unreasonable? No -- I think not, and I think ZT would agree. You can see (maybe) in the video that the lockup is more or less at about 35-40%, so it's not just an early lockup problem.

Video:

https://youtu.be/-TrO3Dle1Ag

Jim malone · Apr 30, 2015

You are right in your conclusion about the ZT. This knife should be able to withstand a spinewack. it baffles me that it closed with so minor pressure. I would send it in to ZT and ask if they can look into it.
Knives with locks should handle a certain amount of force applied to the blade without closing. Why would you need a lock if the knife acts a slipjoint!

A.P.F. · Apr 30, 2015

I think that you have a valid gripe, Knifedude.

Nellem · Apr 30, 2015

Unfortunately I've seen this same thing happen with ZT knives here in SA. A local knife collector sold all his ZT knives after doing similar tests that produced the same results as on the video. I love ZT knives but there is always this concern. KAI's excellent after-sales service do take care of these problem cases when they occur and that is the hope one holds onto when buying ZT.

devieduran · Apr 30, 2015

well...nothing is perfect bro

so $200 knive and $20 knive has their own plus and minus

bladeboss · Apr 30, 2015

I see nothing wrong with spine whack testing.
NO I DONT DO IT TO MY KNIVES.

But look at it this way.
How do you test a padlock? You try to pull it open.
Locked doors? Try to open them.
Locked open knife? Try to close it.

craytab · Apr 30, 2015

You know, there is a whole subforum dedicated to knife reviews and testing. Why not post your testing there?

DocT · Apr 30, 2015

When we had our farm, we found that liner lock knives were just another term for fail. The lock simply cannot take abuse. My wife made me replace her liner lock knife with a back lock after her knife failed and nearly cut her during normal use, and then later, came open in her purse and nearly cut her. Have a few liner locks, but only one, a small pocket knife, that I will actually carry, because of these issues. I am not at all surprised at the results of the test as they are born out by my own, and many other people's, real world experience.

cncpro11 · Apr 30, 2015

I understand your frustration and you say that ZT would agree with you, but have you given them a chance yet to to look at the knife?
It seems like in the time between your first thread and posting the video you could have had the problem resolved.

craytab · Apr 30, 2015

cncpro11 said:
I understand your frustration and you say that ZT would agree with you, but have you given them a chance yet to to look at the knife?
It seems like in the time between your first thread and posting the video you could have had the problem resolved.

Seriously. Was the knife even sent in to ZT?

The cow · Apr 30, 2015

My personal criteria is as long as the knife doesn't fail with significant downward pressure from my thumb, it'll work for me. Looking at your video, I'd think that the ZT should have withstand more force than that.

cncpro11 · Apr 30, 2015

craytab said:
Seriously. Was the knife even sent in to ZT?

Exactly, it has been a month between these two threads and op is still expressing his disappointment.
If it were my knife I would have been on the phone with KAI that day and shipped it to them no later than the next day because like op said, $200 is a lot to spend on a knife.

mrnotsam123 · Apr 30, 2015

My question is, if you hold the knife the same way and press down instead of doing the "whack" does it still close? I say this because I have noticed that some framelocks seem to distribute the shock differently ( at least that's my guess). I have an emerson CQC-12, a ZT 0550, and have had at least one or two other knives that have done the same, when "whacked" after one or two (or nine or ten) times i hear a faint rattle right before they close. but just pushing on the knife usually doesn't close it with light to medium force, it takes a whole lot more without the quick "whacking" motion.

asdf12345 · Apr 30, 2015

OP if you posted a brightly lit close up shot of the lockup on your knife, it would help everyone have a better understanding of what might be going wrong.

If a lock fails violent spinewhacks with hammers and vises, that's abuse and the results of those tests apply more to experimentation for the sake of experimentation than to real-life applications.

The spinewhack in the posted video, on the other hand, is a perfectly reasonable test of a knife's lock and one that, if failed, would make any reasonable person apprehensive about using that knife for moderate to heavy applications.

craytab said:
You know, there is a whole subforum dedicated to knife reviews and testing. Why not post your testing there?

I was under the impression that you thought testing done on video was invalid and irrelevant.

craytab said:
I don't know what the hell people on youtube do or why they do it. That is the point. I will trust actual data points to back up my assertions rather than random yahoos on some video website. Sorry, this is just common sense.

craytab said:
The fact that you trust random people on the youtubes over logic and reason is troubling.

craytab said:
Oh, so you have no actually qualitative evidence? You just have a bunch of youtube videos? Never mind then. Argument dismissed.

d0nut · Apr 30, 2015

I still have no idea what a spine whack test is supposed to prove.

In my 37 years of life on this earth, I've never needed to whack anything with the spine of a knife. Not once.

I've cut hundreds of things with the edge of a knife, but never the spine. So I'm just a bit confused.

marcinek · Apr 30, 2015

Watched it. Still find it to be a pointless test. Guess that's trolling, though.

My suggestion is this...if you find their lock to be unacceptable...stop buying and praising their knives. I don't get it. I hear on the street that there are quite a few knife manufacturers out there.

Then you won't have to post any more "ZT disappointment" threads, and you wont get "trolled", as you say, by ZT fan or spine whack "haters." :thumbup:

Twindog · Apr 30, 2015

d0nut said:
I still have no idea what a spine whack test is supposed to prove.

In my 37 years of life on this earth, I've never needed to whack anything with the spine of a knife. Not once.

I've cut hundreds of things with the edge of a knife, but never the spine. So I'm just a bit confused.

Locks are supposed to keep the blade from closing accidentally. You close a knife by putting pressure on the spine. The spine whack is one way to test how well that lock works. Although they are controversial, light whacks can give a good indication of lock performance. Even Spyderco recommends light spine whacks -- 5 to 10 pounds. Any good knife should be able to handle that kind of test without damage. If it can't, the knife is either poorly made or designed.

Greykilt · Apr 30, 2015

Focus on the Warranty. Whether it is ZT, Benchmade, SpyderCo, anyone, a $200 knife should have some paperwork included and typically it will list what the manufacturer considers
1. Intended use.
2. Wear and Tear
3. Abuse.
Call ZT customer service dept. Explain your issue. Follow their suggestions. If knife is defective then they should fix it. But nothing will happen if you do not contact them. Everyone's opinion not with standing that is the appropriate course of action.
In your initial post you say "I think ZT would agree". Why not find out for sure?

toker · Apr 30, 2015

I'm not a believer in spine whack tests, but the knife shouldn't disengage accidently from a light bump.

The better question is whether or not you've contacted ZT to look at the knife. If not, why haven't you?

LadyEarth · Apr 30, 2015

marcinek said:
Watched it. Still find it to be a pointless test. Guess that's trolling, though.

Now that is a trolling remark from you rather than the OP.

At least most of us in here are seeing his issues as legitimate and serious enough to recommend him return it to ZT. I've known for a while how weak certain ZT liner locks were such as ZT 200 but some folks just wont want to see their favorite brand "slandered" by valid issues. *shrugs*

For the OP, I suggest if you can, send it to KAI to have them look at it.