Sorry, but here's my spine wacks...

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knifedude802 said:
I'll get it fixed when I have the time.
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Okay, but in over a month you didn't have time to send it in? You had time to make this video but no time to contact ZT? I don't mean to question your priorities but if I had a knife I wanted to get fixed I would have just sent it in.

knifedude802 said:
It's the fact that it needs fixing in the first place, as do too many ZT's being shipped out. A disproportionate amount compared to most any other knife maker.
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Can you prove* this? If so, do share your evidence.

knifedude802 said:
That said, I like ZT, I like KAI, I buy their knives still. I like the designs, and the performance you CAN get from some of their models. I like the design of the 0300/0200. I don't like that they seem to have weak lockups relatively commonly.
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Relatively common? What do you define as common? I think we went through this in the other thread. So what you are saying is that for over a decade ZT produced 2 product lines, some of their most popular no less, that had a commonly known weak lock ups? I would also like to see you prove* this.




*You will noticed I asked you to prove 2 things that you can't. It is rhetorical.
 
craytab said:
Okay, but in over a month you didn't have time to send it in? You had time to make this video but no time to contact ZT? I don't mean to question your priorities but if I had a knife I wanted to get fixed I would have just sent it in.

*You will noticed I asked you to prove 2 things that you can't. It is rhetorical.
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Nor will I try. It's just my $.02, probably overpriced at that. But I have over 100 knives, and none close as easily as the two (2) ZT 0300's I've had, except slip joints.

You can at least acknowledge that this is a problem, and others see it this way as well. I refuse to believe that ZT would purposefully design a knife with a lock so easily closed. But what would I know, I'm just a mechanical engineer ;).

Craytab, I'm sure you've probably already answered this question, but do you own any ZT's personally? What's your opinion on them? Any problems with yours? I only have the 0300 in the video and an 0200 now, but I've been considering the 560BW for a while, just hasn't hit the top of my list yet.
 
craytab said:
Okay, but in over a month you didn't have time to send it in? You had time to make this video but no time to contact ZT? I don't mean to question your priorities but if I had a knife I wanted to get fixed I would have just sent it in.



Can you prove* this? If so, do share your evidence.



Relatively common? What do you define as common? I think we went through this in the other thread. So what you are saying is that for over a decade ZT produced 2 product lines, some of their most popular no less, that had a commonly known weak lock ups? I would also like to see you prove* this.




*You will noticed I asked you to prove 2 things that you can't. It is rhetorical.
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He's saying that despite his bad experiences, he still supports and buys KAI. What more do you need or want.

knifedude, don't bother trying to show any evidence, as they will probably be dismissed as invalid anyhow. He asked me to make a "spreadsheet" of lock failures between two different brands, so I tallied up all the videos demonstrating easy disengagement on 3xx and 55x/56x pattern knives (of which there were many). He then claimed that Youtube videos are invalid sources of information made by unreliable people. I'm surprised he hasn't accused your video of being doctored or misleading, to be honest.

As far as needing fixing in the first place, just from a single day in one Feedback thread...

My 561 went in with a detent weak enough that it was barely a flipper, and it came back... With a detent even weaker than it left with.
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I had a hard time sharpening my 0452 on the wicked edge due to the uneven grind, which made a crooked bevel on one side of the blade near the heel of the knife.
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My 0452 also has a blade that is too long. I am considering sending mine in as I literally cut myself with it every few days.
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I had gotten a new 0801 in December, nice knife...but had a couple of issues.
I sent it back at my expense, with the warranty form filled out, when it got back
it was so tight it could hardly be opened, it required both hands
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I'm not saying these instances are common. More common comparatively =/= common objectively. An overwhelming percentage of the time, when you purchase a ZT, you WILL get a knife with a very sturdy lock, a great action, excellent heat treat, good quality control, etc. It does seem, however, that complaints are more frequent with this brand than with others. Of course no one can "prove" anything, but if the boot fits...
 
I do not enjoy being cut when a lock fails. I have seen multiple videos showing ZT locks failing with a small amount of spine pressure. Some new out of the box.

I have experiences this with more than a few brand new knives of different manufacture. I've had it with liner locks and with a few frame locks I have tried out.

Price does Not seem to be the main factor.

When I buy a knife (ot pick one up to look at it for purchasing) I move my fingers out of the way, and put a bit of negative pressure on the spine.

I have owned a handful of liner lock knives that close at the lightest pressure. Without any "bump" or jolt.

Others take a light bump to close.

I have been cut this way before. While trying to cut hoses on a large cubic hydrolic press (for making diamond PDC bits for the oil/natural gas drilling industry). Tight spaces, and awquard angles.

I have had a liner lock close up while topping cardboard boxes. I have seen injury severe enough to need surgery to fix severed tendons where no shock was applied. Just a bit of negative pressure while piercing rubber.


I'm ok if my knives can't survive punishing spine wacks on steel, or a hard table.


Light taps on the carpet causing a lock to fail is unacceptable. Heck, I don't think any of my slip joints would fold from much harder hits than that!
It is a design defect, and a dangerous one at that.
 
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knifedude802 said:
Nor will I try. It's just my $.02, probably overpriced at that. But I have over 100 knives, and none close as easily as the two (2) ZT 0300's I've had, except slip joints.

You can at least acknowledge that this is a problem, and others see it this way as well. I refuse to believe that ZT would purposefully design a knife with a lock so easily closed. But what would I know, I'm just a mechanical engineer ;).

Craytab, I'm sure you've probably already answered this question, but do you own any ZT's personally? What's your opinion on them? Any problems with yours? I only have the 0300 in the video and an 0200 now, but I've been considering the 560BW for a while, just hasn't hit the top of my list yet.
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My 301 doesn't do this but nor will I be spine whacking it on stuff. I tend to use the other side of the blade. :D

I can't close it with hand pressure either. Nor could I do that on the 200 I owned but again, no spine whacks.

I have 2 0560s. Great knives! Highly recommended. Neither has folded on my fingers but like above, no spine whacks.

My 550 won't close on my hand but you guessed it, I'm not hitting the spine on anything!
 
The video is very self-explanatory... for a 200$ knife there are no valid excuses.
all the "I don't do spine whacks I use the other side of the blade" thing is a bit ridiculous, it's like saying "I don't need airbags in my car since I didn't plan to crash against something".
 
Larcivs Lepidvs said:
The video is very self-explanatory... for a 200$ knife there are no valid excuses.
all the "I don't do spine whacks I use the other side of the blade" thing is a bit ridiculous, it's like saying "I don't need airbags in my car since I didn't plan to crash against something".
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No, that metaphor is ridiculous.
 
Took some quick pictures of the lockup per someones request, sorry it's the best I can do.

2wn77kh.jpg


2j333fk.jpg
 
I agree "disappointment" post is completely pointless if you haven't tried the warranty route. Obviously the knife shouldn't fold under such light taps - nether my liner 350 or frame 550 will fold under hard whacks, let alone bumps.

It would have been useful to take care of the warranty issue, then make a non-baiting advisory post that owners should be aware of this issue and file a warranty claim if they encounter it.

I'll call this trolling as the OP knows the history of how these spine whack threads go.

Locks are supposed to protect you from accidentally closing the knife on your fingers. Bumps are situations that could possibly do that. Hard whacking like in these videos is just plain stupid. In what situation would you whack the spine hard - a motion in the opposite direction of cutting?


I am more concerned whether a knife can be safely opened and closed one handed than survive a hard spine whack as far as safety goes.
 
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Geneo said:
I agree "disappointment" post is completely pointless if you haven't tried the warranty route. Obviously the knife shouldn't fold under such light taps - nether my liner 350 or frame 550 will fold under hard whacks, let alone bumps.

It would have been useful to take care of the warranty issue, then make a non-baiting advisory post that owners should be aware of this issue and file a warranty claim if they encounter it.

I'll call this trolling as the OP knows the history of how these spine whack threads go.

Locks are supposed to protect you from accidentally closing the knife on your fingers. Bumps are situations that could possibly do that. Hard whacking like in these videos is just plain stupid. In what situation would you whack the spine hard - a motion in the opposite direction of cutting?


I am more concerned whether a knife can be safely opened and closed one handed than survive a hard spine whack as far as safety goes.
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He was only whacking hard at the other knives the one in question was only tapped lightly.
 
Did you even read what I wrote before replying? I was referring to other's videos.
 
Geneo said:
Did you even read what I wrote before replying? I was referring to other's videos.
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Yep. Sorry I believed you discounted all "videos" and meant to include the OPs. Glad you agree that it's more useful than the others.
:D
 
My Sebenza fails spine whack tests just like this one.............JK!

This thread made me decide to test my ZT knives, since they are some of my favorites. My 0300 passed easily. I whacked it pretty hard (man, that sounds dirty) and the lock held up just fine. Looks to me like you got a dud knife. It happens.
 
Agreed on all accounts. This is just something I'm putting out there, more or less. I've come across it before, so I guess I'm not the only one. I'll be talking to ZT soon hopefully. As far as this post being worthless, yeah maybe. But I don't like having to use a warranty on a brand new knife that I haven't used.
 
Whoever claims this isn't a valid test and calls abuse really is a fanboy. I guess people aren't allowed to test their knives to see if it lives up to its marketing. Too often do I see the you're not supposed to use a folder like that or prying; but sometimes a folder is really only what you have and you have to make sure it won't let you down. Especially if it's a brand that sells its wares based off of the hard use tactical marketing.
 
I'm going to venture a guess that it has to do with bad lock geometry. Likely in execution, not design. None of my ZT's exhibit this behavior. None of my other knives do for that matter. I have had some in the past though, from other well known manufacturers. Warranties exist for a reason. :thumbup:
 
knifedude802 said:
Agreed on all accounts. This is just something I'm putting out there, more or less. I've come across it before, so I guess I'm not the only one. I'll be talking to ZT soon hopefully. As far as this post being worthless, yeah maybe. But I don't like having to use a warranty on a brand new knife that I haven't used.
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If it's brand new never used then why didn't you just return it to the seller?
I agree that the knife cost a lot of money and you shouldn't have one that's defective, but other than starting two threads and a bunch of arguments about it in the last month, and saying you "hope to talk to ZT soon", it seems like you have done nothing to make it right, which I suspect is why some are accusing you of trolling.
 
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