Sorry, but here's my spine wacks...

[jprime84]

I recently discovered that my 0562cf behaves this way, while my 0300 does not. It is worth noting that if I am properly gripping the knife with my hand on the lock that it will not fail.

 

[kniferbro]

Enter the usual people screaming troll troll troll! when in reality they are the ones trolling this thread. If you don't like this thread, move on.

I think this is a valid point. Locks should t disengage that easily. Obviously forces aren't supposed to be applied to the spine but stuff happens. Maybe we should call up Ford, Chevy, and Honda and tell them to stop their useless crash tests because cars aren't supposed to be smashed into each other, that's abuse.

 

[Noswad0208]

No one else noticed that OP violently threw each knife he tested?

 

[marcinek]

Now that is a trolling remark from you rather than the OP.

At least most of us in here are seeing his issues as legitimate and serious enough to recommend him return it to ZT. I've known for a while how weak certain ZT liner locks were such as ZT 200 but some folks just wont want to see their favorite brand "slandered" by valid issues. *shrugs*

For the OP, I suggest if you can, send it to KAI to have them look at it.

OP asked if we thought his complaints were unreasonable.

Nothing against ZT / KAI, lord knows I've spent too many paychecks on their knives. So am I being unreasonable? No -- I think not, and I think ZT would agree. You can see (maybe) in the video that the lockup is more or less at about 35-40%, so it's not just an early lockup problem.

I happen to feel its an unreasonable test. If answering a question he asked is trolling, then I guess I'm guilty.

If somebody wants a thread full of spine whacks fans, say so. That's fine. Say so from the outset. Then coming in and saying something negative about spine whacks would be trolling. But hey, you ask for opinions, you get them. Sorry.

 

[marcinek]

Now that is a trolling remark from you rather than the OP.

And at what point did I accuse the OP of trolling? :confused

Look I agree with the others. You don't like a knife? Send it back. Get it fixed. Its your knife, and you don't need us to tell you that you are "reasonable" before you do it.

And if you want people to say "spine whacks are great" and don't want to hear anything else, cool. Say that in ones original post.

 

[marcinek]

Look if the company is good, they will want to make you happy. "The customer is always right." It's not "The customer is always right as long as if they are reasonable."

 

[asdf12345]

I happen to feel its an unreasonable test. If answering a question he asked is trolling, then I guess I'm guilty.

If somebody wants a thread full of spine whacks fans, say so. That's fine. Say so from the outset. Then coming in and saying something negative about spine whacks would be trolling. But hey, you ask for opinions, you get them. Sorry.

There's a difference between wailing on a knife in a vise with a hammer and giving it a tap against your carpet.

Consider that plenty of frame and liner locked knives withstand even those much more violent spinewhack tests.

Consider also that the other knives shown in the video had no problem withstanding those very light hits.

So on that particular knife it's certainly an issue, and the test was perfectly reasonable. To say otherwise would be to have an unrealistically optimistic view of what knives experience in use.

This one test does not necessarily mean anything for other ZT 300s, and is totally irrelevant to ZT 300s which have been tested and whose locks are shown to hold up. However, so far it seems that the probability is higher that you'll have a lock that's too easily disengaged if you buy one of the 3xx or 55x/56x pattern knives.

 

[craytab]

I was under the impression that you thought testing done on video was invalid and irrelevant.

I know this might seem confusing so let's look at what I said and what you quoted me in your post:

You know, there is a whole subforum dedicated to knife reviews and testing. Why not post your testing there?

There is a disconnect between my statement and question and your response to it. How you read that I was reversing my position I do not know.

So what about my statement and question that you quoted places your impression of my opinion in question? Or is this a thinly veiled and poorly executed personal attack. I mean you went out of your way to dig up all those old quotes of mine. I still stand by those quotes and my quoted statement above in no way contradicts them, as you imply with your statement.

I was simply pointing out the fact that there is a subforum for this kind of stuff. If this is truly an informational testing thread, and not a ZT troll thread, then why not post it in the appropriate subforum?

And gee, look were we are now

 

[baldtaco-II]

I'm not convinced you did yourself any favours with the thread title. I usually pass by threads including “spine whack” as it invariably indicates a substandard person behaving in a substandard way.

What you have here is different. It could easily be a simulation of what it would be a to be cutting in a hard to access spot and accidentally bump the spine of your locked knife. The knife behaved in a way one might reasonably anticipate from a slipjoint not a properly locked blade.

Sell it to someone that likes that kind of thing.

 

[Noswad0208]

Sell it to someone that likes that kind of thing.

Like Marcinek. He obviously doesn't think it's a problem, he'd buy it in a heartbeat.

 

[kniferbro]

I know this might seem confusing so let's look at what I said and what you quoted me in your post:



So what about my statement and question that you quoted places your impression of my opinion in question? Or is this a thinly veiled and poorly executed personal attack. I mean you went out of your way to dig up all those old quotes of mine. I still stand by those quotes and my quoted statement above in no way contradicts them, as you imply with your statement.

I was simply pointing out the fact that there is a subforum for this kind of stuff. If this is truly an informational testing thread, and not a ZT troll thread, then why not post it in the appropriate subforum?

And gee, look were we are now

How did you conclude that this is a troll thread? Do you know what internet trolling is? Just because you don't like it, and it's "negative" does not make it trolling. Trolling is stirring up controversy just to stir up controversy. Having a legitimate opinion, that stirs up controversy is not trolling!

Troll post: ZT's suck. They are the worst knives. People that own them are dumb.

Post that may spark arguments but is not a troll post: I am unhappy with my ZT. It did not cut well when I tried to cut ______.

Do you see how one is baseless and only meant to illicit a response, and one is an opinion that some may not like?

OP expressed legitimate concerns and opinions about his ZT. If that does not jive with you, fine. But stop calling any post you don't like a troll post.

Everything is relative. 99% of the world would read our discussions on here and say "Why does any of this matter? Blade steel? Titanium? CF? Edge geometry? " Yet it is all very important to us knife enthusiasts. Some here feel a lock should keep the blade open and not close due to force on the spine (how ever much force that may be, is up to the individual). Some don't. It's all relative.

 

[craytab]

How did you conclude that this is a troll thread?

I didn't conclude that it is a troll thread. In fact, I concluded that it is a testing and review thread and that the knife Reviews and testing subforum might be a better fit rather than General. Is it not a spine whack TEST thread? And look where it got moved to.

And the OP has not been back to answer the most basic of questions. Why not send it in to ZT if you think it is such a problem?

 

[asdf12345]

I didn't conclude that it is a troll thread. In fact, I concluded that it is a testing and review thread and that the knife Reviews and testing subforum might be a better fit rather than General. Is it not a spine whack TEST thread? And look where it got moved to.

And the OP has not been back to answer the most basic of questions. Why not send it in to ZT if you think it is such a problem?

I thought you said that any data in the form of a Youtube video is irrelevant data. If according to you the video and thus the OP is not to be trusted, why even post?

What I am saying is that who knows what these people on the internet do to their knives and then post about them. Who knows. You sure as snot don't and neither do I. This makes it hear say and in no way any sort of credible evidence... Sorry, but a bunch of folks on youtube aren't evidence. They are just a bunch of folks on youtube, no matter what credit you might want to give them.

When I made a thread in Feedback some time ago, people dug up quotes from when I had just joined the site just to attack me on something that was completely irrelevant to said quotes. No one seemed to have a problem with that.

In fact, I believe you in particular were eager to condemn me and dismiss my arguments because of something I had posted months before, that was not even relevant to the discussion.

I mean you went out of your way to dig up all those old quotes of mine.

I would still like to see a brightly lit closeup of the lock on the OPs knife. Liner and frame locks are finicky and small errors & inconsistencies in manufacturing can cause all sorts of wacky results.

 

[asdf12345]

Why not send it in to ZT if you think it is such a problem?

Look I agree with the others. You don't like a knife? Send it back. Get it fixed. Its your knife, and you don't need us to tell you that you are "reasonable" before you do it.

KAI's excellent after-sales service do take care of these problem cases when they occur and that is the hope one holds onto when buying ZT.

Have you given them a chance yet to to look at the knife?
It seems like in the time between your first thread and posting the video you could have had the problem resolved.

Focus on the Warranty.

The better question is whether or not you've contacted ZT to look at the knife. If not, why haven't you?

Every time...

And this is not just with KAI either. This seems to happen whenever someone has problems with their knife, of any brand.

Some people prefer to not have to take the risk (if the knife is lost in transit, no one's under any obligation to replace it), wait weeks to months, and pay $15-20 for shipping because someone let a knife out of the factory with an issue. These cases are not faultless.

On that note, the potential for frustration is even greater when a company exhibits a pattern of more new out of box knives needing service than other companies', and knives having to be returned multiple times for the repairs to be done.

 

[craytab]

I thought you said that any data in the form of a Youtube video is irrelevant data. If according to you the video and thus the OP is not to be trusted, why even post?

I did say that, in another thread. What I said in my first post of this thread is that this should be in Knife Reviews and Testing. You then used that point to bring up an argument from another thread unrelated to my post. That makes no sense and is just being argumentative.

When I made a thread in Feedback some time ago, people dug up quotes from when I had just joined the site just to attack me on something that was completely irrelevant to said quotes. No one seemed to have a problem with that.

In fact, I believe you in particular were eager to condemn me and dismiss my arguments because of something I had posted months before, that was not even relevant to the discussion.

Still upset over that? What does that have to do with this thread or what I posted? So in retaliation to a thread months ago you thought you would do it back? Okay then....

This is just beyond ridiculous and I will be done posting about it.


Still glad this is in Testing as it is a spine whack test review :thumbup:

 

[asdf12345]

I did say that, in another thread. What I said in my first post of this thread is that this should be in Knife Reviews and Testing. You then used that point to bring up an argument from another thread unrelated to my post. That makes no sense and is just being argumentative.




Still upset over that? What does that have to do with this thread or what I posted? So in retaliation to a thread months ago you thought you would do it back? Okay then....

This is just beyond ridiculous and I will be done posting about it.


Still glad this is in Testing as it is a spine whack test review :thumbup:

It's not in retaliation, I was just surprised that you were upset that I had done it, considering how eager you were to mock me and how uncritical you were of people bringing up old posts in the past.

If you don't feel the video represents valid data, why ask for it to be in a forum dedicated to meaningful testing? Do you think it represents valid data, or not? You said earlier that all video testing on Youtube can be categorically dismissed as unreliable and irrelevant.

 

[knifedude802]

I'll post a picture of the lockup when I get a chance. I've been so busy I haven't had a chance to talk with KAI, but there's little doubt they will stand behind their product. You can see from the video, with a bump that light, any lock should be able to keep the knife from closing.

Thanks to mod for moving this thread to appropriate location.

Controversy about the knife is a good thing, after all, we're here to talk about the knife. Controversy about controversy is needless.

Most people dismiss spine wacking as unrealistic, but I've had knives close on me, and it's a real concern when it's as easy as my video proves it to be.

Thanks all for your replies, including the ones who disagree with me.

 

[craytab]

Still waiting to hear from the OP why he has not sent the knife to ZT especially if he thinks ZT will agree with him. Wouldn't that mean they would fix the problem? Why not get it fixed?

 

[Spyder59]

Its a magician's trick, that's all.

 

[knifedude802]

Still waiting to hear from the OP why he has not sent the knife to ZT especially if he thinks ZT will agree with him. Wouldn't that mean they would fix the problem? Why not get it fixed?

I'll get it fixed when I have the time. It's the fact that it needs fixing in the first place, as do too many ZT's being shipped out. A disproportionate amount compared to most any other knife maker.

That said, I like ZT, I like KAI, I buy their knives still. I like the designs, and the performance you CAN get from some of their models. I like the design of the 0300/0200. I don't like that they seem to have weak lockups relatively commonly.