Spring 2013 Wilderness Custom Knifemaker's Challenge UPDATE, PICS PAGE 5

WOO!
Thanks for putting in all the effort, Moose!
So many details, and a lot of diligence required to pull this off.
It was a great pleasure to participate remotely.
I'm delighted to know my (your!) knife will still be in service.
 
james terrio said:
It's G10, and that's one of the biggest reasons I like using it :)

Thanks for taking the time to do all the write-ups!
Click to expand...

My bad. All mistakes in material, please correct me.

Oh, feel free to check my math.

Moose
 
I think you forgot some numbers on my last two categories Moose:p

Its that Blount county edumacation!
 
Thanks for the reviews bro, it really helps!
 
Thanks it was fun !! Whens the next one and whats it gonna be???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
 
Thanks again Moose! Handle size is something I struggle with on most of my knives. I have a fairly large hand but I like the slimmer contoured handles. I have a buddy with small hands who wants knives with large handles and little contouring. Go figure! I just tried to keep the handles on this one at a compromise between the thinner handles I would have preferred and the large handles that a few guys I know like.

Can't wait for the next one!
 
Moosez45 said:
Mitchell Shaw

Form

AFF 4,4,3,4,3,3,3,3 Total 27

No gaps, good grind. Lots of sharp edges.

OP 3,3,3,3,2,2,2,3 Total 21

Rough, unseale/tyed edges. Some uneven stitches. Knife sits deep, but loose retention. Just needs to be finished, really.

D 4,3,3,3,3,3,3,3 Total 25

Broke back Seax style knife blade, with a thin but grippy handle.

Use

C 4,4,2,3,4,3,4,3 Total 27

Thin handle with forward and rear contours, made it hard to get a grip on

E 4,4,4,4,4,4,3,3 Total 30

Thin tough edge. I personally think this one should have scored higher. High, full fat ground, cut like a laser for me.

ER 5,4,5,4,5,5,3,3 Total 34

Sharp in, less sharp out. Drags hair off, and smooth cuts paper

OAL 4,3,4,3,4,4,4,4 Total 30

The initial look of the Brokeback Seax, threw me off. But the distal taper on the tang was well done. Slightly too thin of a handle doesn't back up the blade.



Total 194
Click to expand...

Fair review, thanks. I have a couple of questions. In the AFF category you say "Lots of sharp edges," is that good or bad? Do you mean sharp edges on the handle making work uncomfortable?

Also with me getting 3's in the fit and finish I take it that a hand sanded finish with a lengthwise scratch pattern does not really matter to a lot of people. Is that the case? That is quite time consuming and if it is overlooked by the users it would save me about 2 hours of finish work.

Nice to know about the handle. I'll probably do less of a contour on the top of the scales next time. For the edge category, I'm honestly shocked I got some 3's there. Maybe people prefer a steeper more visible V type edge?

Also before Ka Bar comes and beats my door down...Yes I will sell the license for the "Brokeback Seax" for mass production.
 
Hey Mitchell. I wasn't at the Gathering and I didn't handle your knife obviously, but from my experience selling some knives on the Exchange and from letting people handle them in person, not one person I've run across gave a hoot whether the blade was hand sanded or belt finished. Once I learned this, I started finishing more with Trizacts and Scotchbrite belts. I'll hand sand one every once in a while, but it's only because I want to, not because I think it will enhance performance or make it sell faster. I believe hand sanding only attracts collectors. I could be all wet on this, so anyone feel free to set me straight if you have another view.
 
Blade finishes are an interesting topic. I've found there are about as many using customers who like a hand-rubbed finish, as there are ones who're completely OK with belt-finished or stonewashed blades. My personal preference is a full silk polish, but it does add a lot of labor and most people aren't willing to pay for the extra hours involved. Some just don't like their blades that shiny, and some think it's silly because it's going to get scratched anyway. We're all right :)

I think that no matter which style you prefer, as long as your finish is consistent and crisp, you will find happy customers. A sloppy 2,000 grit finish will look awful compared to a clean and even scotch-brite finish.
 
Shaw Blades said:
Fair review, thanks. I have a couple of questions. In the AFF category you say "Lots of sharp edges," is that good or bad? Do you mean sharp edges on the handle making work uncomfortable?

Also with me getting 3's in the fit and finish I take it that a hand sanded finish with a lengthwise scratch pattern does not really matter to a lot of people. Is that the case? That is quite time consuming and if it is overlooked by the users it would save me about 2 hours of finish work.

Nice to know about the handle. I'll probably do less of a contour on the top of the scales next time. For the edge category, I'm honestly shocked I got some 3's there. Maybe people prefer a steeper more visible V type edge?

Also before Ka Bar comes and beats my door down...Yes I will sell the license for the "Brokeback Seax" for mass production.
Click to expand...

The scores shown in the judging were each given by individuals. They didn't have to explain why they rated something a 3 rather than a 5. It was subjective, but done as fairly as possible. If I recall correctly your sheath cost you points and some of those may have been in fit and finish.
 
Psyop said:
The scores shown in the judging were each given by individuals. They didn't have to explain why they rated something a 3 rather than a 5. It was subjective, but done as fairly as possible. If I recall correctly your sheath cost you points and some of those may have been in fit and finish.
Click to expand...

Ok. Thanks for clearing that up....
 
Last edited:
That does raise an interesting line of thought, which may or may not be useful for the next challenge... if design/F&F extends to the sheath, shouldn't sheath-work have its own category? Do I get full credit for my HT and sheath, when I farmed out the HT to Peters' and my wife did the stitching for me? If I have someone else make the entire sheath for me, should I get any points for it? Does it count if I just buy a knife off the shelf and mod it to my preferences? ;)

I know, I know... that makes everything about 2000% more complicated for the testers... I made my own brain hurt just typing it :D
 
james terrio said:
That does raise an interesting line of thought, which may or may not be useful for the next challenge... if design/F&F extends to the sheath, shouldn't sheath-work have its own category? Do I get full credit for my HT and sheath, when I farmed out the HT to Peters' and my wife did the stitching for me? If I have someone else make the entire sheath for me, should I get any points for it? Does it count if I just buy a knife off the shelf and mod it to my preferences? ;)
Click to expand...

Funny. I had thought the same thing! I would like to see the maker make all aspects of their knife, ie; grind the blade, ht the blade, assemble the handle and make the sheath. I do think if they farm out any one step, then there should be no points given for that step. After all, aren't these Makers Challenges?

In theory, I could wait until Bill had another sale on some of his bare blades and buy one ( or buy a pre-made blade from one of the knife suppliers), then get some pre-shaped handles that fit that particular model and then have Paul Long make me a sheath and I'd be set.

But at the end of the day, I don't lose any sleep over it. They're fun to enter no matter what the limitations are (or lack of) and I plan to enter again. :)
 
It's a slippery slope, and my questions were/are purely rhetorical. The sheath thing (for example) comes up often... no one ever says "you're not a gunsmith if you can't make holsters" or "you're not a sheathmaker if you don't make knives".

It's really tough for the testers to narrow all that stuff down without it becoming completely overwhelming. A lot of it just comes down to personal preferences, anyway. We could drive ourselves bonkers arguing edge-retention over ease-of-sharpening, for instance. One of the knives that "failed", looked to me like it could have been easily re-sharpened and tested again... but that simply wasn't part of the criteria.

I think they were trying to put all the knives on the same page of, "If I bought this thing, would I be happy with it after spending a weekend in the woods, without having to work on it?" And that is indeed a fair and honest rubric unto itself.

For the record, I'm really glad I participated and I have no ill feelings about any of it. I know what I could have done better, and I own it. I've learned a lot and got to meet some awesome folks, and examine some beautiful knives. The makers and testers all did a heckuva job! :thumbup:
 
Last edited:
james terrio said:
It's a slippery slope, and my questions were/are purely rhetorical. The sheath thing (for example) comes up often... no one ever says "you're not a gunsmith if you can't make holsters" or "you're not a sheathmaker if you don't make knives".

It's really tough for the testers to narrow all that stuff down without it becoming completely overwhelming. A lot of it just comes down to personal preferences, anyway. We could drive ourselves bonkers arguing edge-retention over ease-of-sharpening, for instance. One of the knives that "failed", looked to me like it could have been re-sharpened and tested again... but that wasn't part of the criteria.

I think they were trying to put all the knives on the same page of, "If I bought this thing, would I be happy with it after spending a weekend in the woods?" And that is indeed a fair and honest rubric unto itself. At the end of the day, that's all that really matters.

For the record, I'm really glad I participated and I have no ill feelings about any of it. I know what I could have done better, and I own it. I've learned a lot and got to meet some awesome folks, and examine some beautiful knives. The makers and testers all did a heckuva job! :thumbup:
Click to expand...

You're actually pretty close right here James.

This is how I looked at each category:
Form
Aesthetics/Fit/Finish -- this was a knife construction question. is everything even/symmetrical, do the scales have sharp edges or contours that will cause hot spots, in multi-part scales, do the seams line up, are there gaps, etc...
Design -- this was a question of how does the look and function of the knife meet your expectation of what a camp/bush knife should be question. Non-traditional designs lost points here, but by the same token, so did boring designs with nothing that really caught the user's eye.
Overall Package (sheath, firesteel, etc.) -- this was basically "if this came in the mail and here is what you see" question and unfortunately, in the Shaw knives case, the sheath REALLY drug folks' impression of the knife down.

Use
Comfort how did it feel in hand both initially and in use
Edge how sharp was it when first picked up (obviously for some users this was after a knife had been used)
Edge Retention how sharp was it by the time you were done using it -- again, if you're the first user things were pretty good. If you were the 8th user, they may or may not have been so good. some users were more picky about what they considered a "5" edge as well. I personally am more of a "it did what i needed it to do without undue effort, so it must be OK" kind of guy.
Overall Package(culmination of all the knife's aspects for use) For me, this is where grind thickness and overall edge geometry was commented on in addition to tying all the other factors together.

Hope this helps, no knife was a total failure, even the ones that had critical physical issues. he users tried to suit tasks to the nature of the knife, and on one of them, I gave it a task expecting it to perform badly -- and I was right, but it did the task anyway. (while bruising my hand...) did that cost the knife in my assessment? of course -- I tanked it for comfort and graded it down in both design and the second overall package, but other users had a different experience with it and things averaged out.
 
Moose, et al. -

That was awesome!!

Thank you all for pulling off such an ambitious endeavor with such class.

A question to the judges and/or users of my knife if I may:
My knife lost points basically due to the square-ish handle, a sharp edge under the racasso, and the proud handle slab edge?
And because of the handle issues, its performance score took a hit as well.... am I correct with this?

Any thoughts, any input at all, would be greatly appreciated.

Ohh.. Moose...yes, the sheath is charred oak slabs with a one-piece moose antler welt.

Thanks,

Peter
 
Peter, because of the sharp edges and abrupt transition from antler to wood on the handle which some of the users found uncomfortable, yes, it cost you in performance. i was actually surprised at how comfortable it was in use, it did not cause me hot spots, and worked well -- but I have atypically sized hands and suspect that made a difference. It was a gorgeous package, bordering on "art knife" for the materials used and the way you assembled everything.

I'm curious, on the sheath - did you line it in leather to protect the edge from getting flat spots hitting the antler spacer and to limit rattle?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top