Spyderco becomes boring knife company....

A

AG

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Jan 2, 1999
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Hi all,

I am so sorry to see what is happening to Spyderco - once the leader of high-tech knives in the US and worldwide with so many innovations and custom collaboration, with advanced materials and great looking knives.

In the last 2 years I have seen Spyderco go from one depth to another - knives in their line become smaller and bulky with ridiculously short blades (Salsa, Pride, Meerkat etc..)

Models that are announced are hard to get with very limited supply and sometimes are so late to reach the market (see the bob lum tanto folder,Peter Herbst and Gunting - just to name a few). Other good solid models are discontinued (There is NO excuse to discontinue the ONLY good looking Spyderco ever made - Howard Viele C42).

Decisions on new products are strange at times (can you spell DO-DO) ?
Too many similar models - can you see any reason for both the Matriarch and the new SpyderHawek to co-exist ?
Custom collaborations - heard of any new interesting ones ? tell me - I'll be more than glad to hear.

The only worthwhile spydies are the oldies - Civilian, Native, Cricket (told you not to discontinue the steel version but you just had to- now it's back of course), Police, Military, Endura, Viele.....it seems time has stopped 2 years ago at Golden Colerado.

I don't want to rub it in - just look at the new models from Benchmade and CRKT and you will easily see who is now leading the knife industry with innovations (materials, locks, design, custom collaborations, variety, good balanced product line with many options).

I still have a lot of respect for spyderco - they were the ones who got me interested in knives collecting the first place. The Howard Viele was my first ever quality piece and I still think it is the best Spydie ever made. So my post is not from joy but from sorrow to see what has spyderco become in the last 2 years - sadly I must say they are going down and it is so obvious that it is the wrong decisions being made that cause this to happen.
 
Hmmmm... I always wondered who was responsible for most folders today having blades just barely over 3". So many knives today have blades around 3.1" or so, just enough to get into legal trouble in a lot of areas within the US. I'm personally glad Spyderco makes good smaller knives. But your opinion is definitely enlightening.

JK
 
Interesting look at the ever-changing Spyderco lineup of knives. Some of the older models are my favorites too, but, I can't discount the newer ones.

Quite a few people have compared the Matriarch to the Spyderhawk, saying they're too much alike. I don't see it. The blades are completely different and, I believe, are aimed at different markets. I have, and use, both. They're not the same knife, IMHO.

I don't think you can look at knives, or the knife industry, without looking at the political climate in the USA in the last two years. Things have changed, a lot! What was OK and legal is now, in some places, illegal and punishable. Do I agree? NO! Do I understand? Well, sort of.

I believe Spyderco may be reacting to the needs of people before the people know they have needs. I think they're being pro-active and not sitting back and having their market share ripped away from them. Naturally, I don't know this for sure, but, it seems to make sense.

Only time will tell.

Ken
 
AG-
You make some intriguing points. I for one am interested in a fresh point of view. Many times us "Regulars" will begin to think along certain lines based upon assumptions, as well as info we get from the "Man" himself.

While I don't agree with you about Spyderco's designs being dull, I am happy to read your take on things. I have to agree with Ken's point that the line up will be determined on the best-estimate of buyer's interests.

Maybe your expectations haven't changed, but ours in the US has, to some degree. Larger knives are not the norm anymore (except by us edge-ucators*), and blade-"phobia" seems more prevalent than ever. I don't like it, but it would be ridiculous to pretend it isn't a larger factor than before.

**Borrowed from Spyderco's warranty "..Edge-U-Cation"
 
Originally posted by AG
Hi all,


I don't want to rub it in - just look at the new models from Benchmade and CRKT and you will easily see who is now leading the knife industry with innovations (materials, locks, design, custom collaborations, variety, good balanced product line with many options).

[/QUOTE

BM and CRK&T leading the industry?:barf: Methinks not...:yawn:
Click to expand...
 
The Ronin is not innovative? How about the Gunting? The Jester and Kiwi are also very well engineered, and I like them very much. I saw and handled a Dodo at the Spirit of Steel show. The Dodo's name is VERY strange, but the knife itself fills a need, IMHO, because the handle is large enough to use the knife for SERIOUS hard work, while the short but sturdy blade is short enough to be legal in most places. The Pride fills a need, too, because knives with blades that lock in the open position are prohibited in many places, such as much if not most of Europe and in some localities such as San Antonio, Texas. I have been a serious buyer and user of knives since the 70's, and the knife market has exploded in the last few years. IMNSHO, Spyderco is still a leader. Of course, I do not agree with everything Spyderco does, but much of it is realistic in the knife market. The typical knife buyer and the typical member of this forum are "two different animals." There is also nothing new about a product being announced, and not delivered until much later. Just look at the concept cars at car shows, or take a look at the firearms industry. I am not a shill for Spyderco, BTW, and do buy other companies' products. I recently bought an Emerson Kerambit, and will probably buy a Tarani Karambit folder soon. The Kershaw Talon (recently discontinued, BTW) is a recent purchase. I have handled some CRKT stuff recently, and while their quality is improving, I see little use for their products. I bought my wife one of the Kasper fixed blade models from CRKT, and she likes it. I had little use for one, myself, since I had the MOD Razorback. Now, the Spyderco Ronin serves my needs for a small defensive FB. Benchmade has a good product line, but the only Benchmade folder I bought, a CQC7, I recently gave to a friend, since I like the Spyderco hole more than a thumb disk for opening a blade.
 
Thanks all for the feedback and respect for my opinion.

1. Some buyers are users, some are avid collectors, some use their knives at home, at ranch, some carry it some don't. There are many uses for a knife and let's admit it's not so much the pure functionality we are looking in a knife but sometimes we also consider looks, design, originallity, collectbility and many other factors.

2. Extremely small blades give me (and maybe others) no interest at all - I do admire small gentleman's folders - such as the BM 850 or even small functional ones like the cricket - but that's it. I (and maybe other too) feel that spyderco has become the leading company to push smaller and smaller blades. let's face ut - peopel who are extremely concerned with being caught with .5" larger than legal blade are not spyderco customers - these guys buy their asian fakes. How may models of small folders one company can produce ? all companies have small folders - both dress and work - but none gives such a great emphasize on small folders as Spyderco does. I DO want to see a future for larger blades - for using and collecting. NO - I do not carry my 4" folder all day long but I do not necessary look for smaller folders 0.5" smaller every year so I can adjust myself to the ever changing rules.

3. The Gunting was almost unreal for me to believe that spyderco would do a tactical collaboration with Bram Frank - but again - they blew it up - the knife is produced in minimal quantities and extremely hard to get - many knives are on their catalog but actually not available. If you decided to make something - make it - I became tired from waiting for Spyderco knives - and I gave you some examples.

4. Hawkbill writes "...Larger knives are not the norm anymore (except by us edge-ucators*)..." - Yes I do agree that larger blades are not intimidating to us and do believe that spyderco market is us - not the occasional knife buyer - they do not appreciate quality and exotic designs and materials - if spyderco is after them then they will easily loose their grip on the pro market.

5. The GENERAL is laughing to hear my opinion that BM and CRK&T are going forward in making better knives than spyderco. Well look at the BM AXIS lock, look at their steels and coatings (have you seen a decent anti-rust coating from spyderco lately ???) may I say to you: S30V, BT2, BC1, AXIS AUTO, M2 , D2, 154CM , 440C, Allen Elishewitz, Osborne, Pardue and many many exciting models - most of them are 3" and longer - Are they going to bankrupcy ? are they crazy ? why don't they make 1.5" funny blades ? and even when they do - why does it look like 770, 850, 350 a (=classy) and not Salsa, pride,DODO (=funny and awkward).

6. SPYDERCO is NOT listening to their hard core clients - they are dream sleeping thinking of the general public (who doesn't care about their new small designs) - people keep on buying their Police, Military (if they can find one), Endure.. and they see that newer models do not sell and replace them 1 year later with even more funny and small folders - doing so they MUST give up on other folders (e.g Viele, Almite Cricket etc..) so they discontinue the serious "old" models in favor of the less successful smaller ones - if they make more money ? I do not know but I guess not - so They blame the political situation and the 11/9 induced climate.

Only future will tell my nose is telling me Spyderco is not going in the right path.
 
I am laughing that you think BM and CRK&T are leading the industry:rolleyes:

How about...

Chris Reeve?
Microtech?
Buck?
Masters of Defence?
Strider?
 
AG, I'm glad to hear that you're openly speaking your mind, and I'm glad the spyderco forumites are reasonable not to turn this into a flame war. In a world of knifemaker deification and extreme glorification to a TOOL company, I think genuine opposing viewpoints rarely get expressed.

Your opinion is fine, you don't like sub 3," the newer blade geometries perhaps, etc. But please, bear in mind, that it is YOUR opinion. I'm not saying it's wrong; I'm saying that the reason why there are hundreds of knife companies and thousands of knife designs is because people have different opinions. If they aren't suitable for your tastes, perhaps spyderco is not for you! Benchmade and CRKT make great knives: it just so happens the only knives I have on me right now are BM and CRKT.

I think you may be right, Spyderco is not listening to we "hardcore clients," and that's what makes Spyderco not a custom knife company. Bear in mind, there are THOUSANDS of people, probably more, toting around spydercos. Regardless if they have ANY idea about blade geometry, steel, handle material, etc., they bought a spyderco and that's whats important to spyderco. I estimate that knifenuts fill out a small percent of the knife-buying population.

I know, it sucks that you may not be able to find your "perfect" knife; god knows I can't (although I've posted many threads in several forums about my "ideal" knife). But I think, with the vast variety of blades out there, you can find something close. Or hey, you can start a knife company. :)


Now here's where I agree with you. I think Spyderco is cutting back on quality. Sorry. I have a ~6 year old Dragonfly, and my coworker has a ~5 year old Delica. Both are still intact, both have been heavily used for many years. Do you ever hear the phrase "they don't make em' like they used to?"

I seriously have quams with non-chamfering of holes (spyderco's TRADEMARK!!!) and the use of wire clips. My second-last spydie I bought (progrip) had lock failure!! It now resides, destroyed and collecting dust, in my toolbox. I estimate, these are just methods to cut costs. But didn't Spyderco make a profit five years ago? Can they remain their designs intact, and still be profitable now? Please prove me wrong.

But I take my own advice, there ARE many knife companies available. Which is why the only knives I have on me right now are BM and CRKT.



I'm not trolling, I'm not against Spyderco in any way, most of the spyderco/forum.com members know me. I eagerly await getting a CF Delica. But this is just a thought.
 
AG - The tone of your posts has a bit too harsh caustic edge so I am not so certain of what your intent is.

I will agree with you that there are many redundant small folders. Many have virtually identical blade shapes. I am not a big fan of the skinner blade shape in the first place, so I find this feature particularly uninteresting. In general, most of them are bulky and heavy for their size. I think tho that the Kiwi, Jester and SS Cricket are all strides forward for Spyderco.

Availability? Well, maybe in Europe there is a problem obtaining them. Here in the US, there is rarely a problem obtaining any of these knives. You should be able to find virtually any model you are looking for on Ebay if nowhere else.

Benchmade - yes, they put out more limited edition knives and one-off production runs. But, the quality of their carbon fiber work is very poor. I have had the 770 and 940 in carbon fiber, but both were so poorly finished I was embarrased to keep them. Since I don't carry any aluminum handled knives, I am waiting for them to come out with Titanium versions which I understand they may make someday.

I am not a very big compression lock fan, but it is essentially a fail proof lock. The ball lock is very similar to the Axis lock, but I haven't had a chance to handle one yet.

I agree that CRKT has a lot of interesting designs - but their focus is on low-cost knives. Their "upgrade" steel is AUS-8. Everything is beadblast to keep cost down. All of their folders utilize Zytel scales. Those are 3 really good reasons I will never buy another CRKT knife.

I think you have a point to make, but I find your arguments poorly formed and again, your tone caustic.
 
Spyderco, IMHO, is probably one of the most innovative companies on Earth.

I think it takes a pretty big stretch of the imagination to claim that all new Spyderco's look the same. Just try to compare the Gunting, the Kiwi, and the Spyderhawk. Or, with upcoming designs, try to compare the ATR, the Dodo, and the Maddox.

As for availability, do you think that might have something to do with the fact that you're in Israel?

Here in the US, I've never had that big of a problem getting a new Spyderco. So far, I've purchased two Guntings, no problem - I wouldn't exactly call that a rare knife.

Once in a while, there is a product delay (Trakker, Paramilitary, etc) but, that is to be expected when a company is so willing to share information about products that are years away from production.

I don't think either CRKT or Benchmade are nearly as innovative as Spyderco. Especially when "innovations" come from the world of custom makers.

Just my $0.02

-- Rob
 
locking blades forbidden in europe ? never heard about that one, although i believe i am living in europe [germany]. daily carry is either afck, endura, shabaria or ares. all have pretty large blades, and are locking. never been bothered.

apart from that, i do believe that spyderco listens to their customers, although i too regret that custom colaborations where neglected lately. benchmade neglected that as well though.

whith the current tendencies in the united states of america it's not really surprising that smaller blades are desired. i wonder if spyderco wil ever produce a knife with no blade, i guess that'll be the day when your govenrment decides to forbide knifes completely. although, and i regret that as well, my govenrment is doing the same. and benchmade as well started to produce smaller knifes -> benchmite.
so, it's not as easy as you think, AG.

regards, cheez
 
Anyone who thinks that Spyderco is boring or lacking innovation should take a look at a post Sal made last December outlining the new and innovative features and models from Spyderco.

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=232942&highlight=innovation

Compare that list to any other brand.

I personally don't pay much attention to Benchmade - I'm not a thumbstud fan. CRKT has a number of great collaborations but, as has been mentioned above, they need to move beyond AUS-8. Too many premium designs with ordinary steel.
 
I hate to say it... If it lives under a bridge and hunts billy goats?:p

How about how expensive the Sebenza is while we are talking knives?:D

Just because Spyderco are providing some real choices in smaller pocket knives WITH inovitave design features and less larger folders does not reflect poorly on Spyderco.

Contary to popular myth... We Formites and KnifeKnuts represent an almost insignificant slice of a company like Spyderco's buying audience. I have lost count of the number of times people hear cry out for a model with this and that... and when made the new asked for knife is a poor seller as it has no mass market appeal. Woopie do guys, there is a lot of talk and little walk in these forums i'm afraid...:(

Spyderco listens to its customers far more than many, well Sal certainly does! Benchmade flat ignore its customers and CRK&T get VERY upset when like me you ask when will they use a better steel than 8a? Look at some of the things Spyderco will be doing soon!

An economical but fair quality knife in a super steel like S30V (the new Native)

Or how about the introduction of steels like S30V or VG10 when others are more than happy with the likes of ATS34/154CM if you are LUCKY.

No, Spyderco are a REALISTIC company with realistic and very fairly priced products, they always have been and with luck always will be.

Rant over.
 
let's face ut - peopel who are extremely concerned with being caught with .5" larger than legal blade are not spyderco customers - these guys buy their asian fakes.
Click to expand...

You're dead wrong. I wonder, why do you wish for all knife manufacturers to make knives with blades longer than allowed by law in the US? As I said before, your opinion is quite noteworthy, as well as where this opinion is coming from.

JK
 
I too believe that Spyderco remains a leader in the industry. In fact, in my mind, Spyderco is still tied for first as being the leader in folding knives (Benchmade being the other). I think Spyderco is taking risks and bringing unique designs (well-executed, as always) to market, as well as adding solid designs up and down the line. The lineup stays fresh with new concepts, from MBC to "little big knife".

I also disagree strongly with the General ... I don't believe a single one of the companies he listed is a leader in the folder market. Certainly, none of them can touch BM or Spyderco.

Joe
 
Another reason for not so many newer models in the last couple of years also seems to be that Spyderco has chosen to refine a number of it's older models to take advantage of newer materials, tweek a design or add a better lock (Military, Native, Rescue, Cricket, Delica, Endura). No bad thing if you want to keep the older models selling well.

As to the shorter blades, it is being diven by both market and political forces, together a potent force.
Spyderco saw the start of this even before 9/11 and started to change some of it's line-up. A this point I think they are the market leader in "Little-Big" knives, knives that are physically small, but will perform big tasks, culminating IMO in the Ti-Salsa, I'm constantly amazed how much force I can bring to bear on this little knife.
This might not suit your situation, but it definately suits mine.

You reproach Spyderco for dropping your personal favourite model, Just think how Sal Glesser must have felt having to drop his favourite model (lrg Calypso) when market forces weren't sufficient to support it.

Richardallen - Unfortunately it is becoming a sad fact that Lockable blades are increasingly being legislated against in parts of Europe. Denmark has banned all lockable blades, even those on Leatherman multi-tools, and until the UK law changed to give Police looser and wider powers of dicression concerning edged and pointed tools, lockable knives had a much stricter definition under law.
 
Originally posted by Joe Talmadge


I also disagree strongly with the General ... I don't believe a single one of the companies he listed is a leader in the folder market. Certainly, none of them can touch BM or Spyderco.

Joe
Click to expand...

My point Joe was that there is no real leader par say, but many companies bring many ideas and products to the table, the ones I listed in particular have brought important and award winning ideas and designs.

BM and Spyderco are but two companies with ideas and concepts, neither is the 'leader' both have concepts of value.

Sorry if I was not clear.:(
 
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