Spyderco Carbon Fiber

arty said:
With wood, there are advantages and disadvantages that can come from laminates. For example, hardwood plywood is more stable than solid wood of the same type, e.g. Birch or maple. Solid wood can be more rigid.
The Chaparral looks like the handle is a laminate, and I am curious about whether this has any effect on the functional aspects of the handle. Carbon fiber seems more rigid than G10, but there are lots of grades of G10, and I would guess of CF as well.
The handle scales on the Chaparral sure look good and provide a good grip. If anyone has seen evidence of delamination, that would be troubling, but I haven't.
From the standpoint of durability and functionality, I would think that CF on the inside and G10 on the outside makes sense, but I prefer things the way they are. They look good to me.
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As I'm sure you know, plywood is made by gluing together layers of wood. What I'm not sure of is whether mixed fabric composite materials are done that way, or if the layers of different fabrics are coated and put together wet just as layers of identical fabric are put together in other fiberglass and carbon fiber composites. It would make sense to do it that way and, if that's the case, then the resultant mixed fabric composite should have the same structural integrity as a single fabric composite using the same resin.

CrimsonTideShooter said:
It's my word, and Sals. He's already admitted that it's a laminate. I just proved which models were laminate, and which were pure CF.

If you choose not to believe me, then you're choosing to ignore reality. Especially since Sal already said it was laminate. You don't respect Sal? Lol
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Pat yourself on the back all you want but even a stopped clock is right twice a day. And, for the record, I never said I was certain they were "pure CF", merely that in the absence of confirmation from the factory, or test results from a professional lab I considered any speculation on their composition as typical internet hearsay. I also expressed my opinion that their actual composition was unimportant, since their only purpose is cosmetic.
 
The Deacon said:
As I'm sure you know, plywood is made by gluing together layers of wood. What I'm not sure of is whether mixed fabric composite materials are done that way, or if the layers of different fabrics are coated and put together wet just as layers of identical fabric are put together in other fiberglass and carbon fiber composites. It would make sense to do it that way and, if that's the case, then the resultant mixed fabric composite should have the same structural integrity as a single fabric composite using the same resin.

Pat yourself on the back all you want but even a stopped clock is right twice a day. And, for the record, I never said I was certain they were "pure CF", merely that in the absence of confirmation from the factory, or test results from a professional lab I considered any speculation on their composition as typical internet hearsay. I also expressed my opinion that their actual composition was unimportant, since their only purpose is cosmetic.
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That's very true. Functionally they are about as equal as it gets. After all, they aren't even load bearing.

I'm definitely all for calling it what it is, but to think that Spyderco had anything other than ours collective best interest in mind is definitely off base. It looks and performs just like solid CF, but costs a lot less. I don't think there is anything to be upset about. Not saying you were upset, I'm talking to the masses.
 
Well said Sal.

For the information of those who really care, my research into the subject had taught me that the characteristics of your knife handle has more to do with the resin type fillers used in these types of products than the actual fibers. (Fiberglass, carbon, cloth or canvas.)

Really, you are choosing what you like better for looks. Cost is a big factor too. G-10 is slightly heavier, much cheaper, and usually more chemical, temp, and impact resistant due to the fillers usually used. It's also non-conductive. Carbon fiber is a bit lighter and much more expensive. But it has a pretty cool look. I don't have anything in micarta, but I really like the simple look of it.
 
Sal Glesser said:
Interesting thread. I also posted this on the Spyderco general thread.

I believe that Spyderco is a very transparent company, probably more so than most.....

.....I will say that from here, it does seem like some are not truth seeking, but act like they're trying to find something that we're doing wrong or dishonest. "ohboyohboy, I found some dirt on Spyderco! I'll get out my microscopes and U-Tube videos and prove it!" When some come to our defense, for which we thank you, they are called "fanboys" or "close minded" like politicians use the "race" card or the "class" card. These forums are supposed to be for sharing information. There are few in the industry that are as open and honest about sharing information as Spyderco. Perhaps you might take that into consideration when presenting your "facts" and not make it seem like it's "bad steel" or "bad Spyderco". Just some thoughts to share.

sal
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Great (and classy) post, Sal. This is not being a "fanboi," rather it's my observation as a business owner and student of marketing... Spyderco could stand as a paragon of the right way to run a successful company. Kudos. And, you got me!
 
Ken44 said:
No offence intended, but I think if it's a thin layer of CF overlaying G-10 the catalog should just call it what it is.
"G-10 with a Carbon Fiber overlay"
How hard could that be to do?

Just my .02, which isn't worth much. Sorry, but thats just the way i see it.
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There is no bigger Spyderco fan than me. I own a bunch and am happy with them all, but I would have to agree with you.
 
Frankly, Spyderco has been doing what other companies have been doing, and producing fine products. I have an Enzo Birk folder that has scales that look just like the scales in the Chaparral. They called it CF. I bought it mainly because I like the way the CF looks and feels. It looks much nicer, in my opinion, than the "pure" CF on my other Spydercos, and has a much better texture for a knife I like to use.
For pure looks, you can't beat nice wood scales, but that is just my view. For a user, with good looks, I really like the Chaparral in CF.
 
Whoa, been at work for 24 hours and look what happens... :(

In any event, I did what I wanted to avoid...disassembled one of my GBs, which is a pre-logo version. The scales are indeed G10 backed, so it's a laminate. It was not clear from the edge, but it is clear when you look at the flat underside.


Whether this matters or not, I express no opinion. I think if I'd had a scale chip the way one of photos above shows, I'd be disappointed, but I would also bet that Spyderco might replace it - or I'd hope so, anyway. I should add that I dropped mine from waist height onto tarmac and chipped the edge but it didn't delaminate the way the one in the photo did. Dressed it with a little 400 paper and some Superglue and you can't really tell without seeing the divot, which is pretty well disguised by the CF basketweave texture.
 
The upcoming KNIFEWORKS EXCLUSIVE Spyderco Manix2 XL C95G2, CPM-S90V, Peel Ply Carbon Fiber Handle, Plain Edge will it be 100% CF handle ?
 
In all of Spyderco's product descriptions for at least the last 15 years, they state something along the lines of "Modification of products, materials, measurements, technical specifications and availability can occur."
 
brownshoe said:
In all of Spyderco's product descriptions for at least the last 15 years, they state something along the lines of "Modification of products, materials, measurements, technical specifications and availability can occur."
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That means somethig about the knife shown and described in the Catalog could change THAT year, since the catalog is often printed before some new knives acually hits the market.
Has nothing to be with what is being discussed.
 
Sal Glesser said:
Hi Rob,

We've been using laminates for about 10 years. Funny nobody seemed to object? CF/G-10 laminates save the customer quite a bit. In our studies, it was the appearance and feel of the carbon fiber in which the customer was interested. In a part the length of a knife hanbdle, there was no strength advantage. In some cases we used CF originally and eventually went to the laminate to keep cost down. In some cases, we began with a laminate. In some cases the CF is laminated on both sides of the G-10, in some cases, just the surface.

sal
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I am not understanding why this has become an issue now after so many years.... :confused:
 
Jim, that question was directed at me, and I answered it shortly after in post #42.

For me, there is no issue with the handle scales. The OP(post #1) asked a question and I answered it to the best of my knowledge.

End of story as far as I'm concerned.
 
5.56 said:
Jim, that question was directed at me, and I answered it shortly after in post #42.

For me, there is no issue with the handle scales. The OP(post #1) asked a question and I answered it to the best of my knowledge.

End of story as far as I'm concerned.
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Yeah I know it was. :)

Just wondering why we have 2 threads about it and why it's such a big deal now after so many years....
 
Jim

If I had to guess, it seems that it's just now becoming clear about the laminates. Even some of the long time AFI's were surprised.
Why it really matters, I do not know.
 
5.56 said:
Jim

If I had to guess, it seems that it's just now becoming clear about the laminates. Even some of the long time AFI's were surprised.
Why it really matters, I do not know.
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Wouldn't know why they would be surprised looking at the cost of the models in question, I guess they thought they were getting solid CF in $100 knives with those steels...... CF isn't exactly cheap as we know.
 
Ankerson said:
Wouldn't know why they would be surprised looking at the cost of the models in question, I guess they thought they were getting solid CF in $100 knives with those steels...... CF isn't exactly cheap as we know.
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Of course some thought they were getting sold CF. Doesn't make them dumb for going by what was printed in the catalog. The Szaba was much more than $100. I have PM'ed with 2 people that bought one and thought it was solid, and they are not dumb when it comes to knives.
I don't know the guy that posted right above you in post #74, but obviouslly he and many others didn't know. Lets pease not insult anyone for going by the catalog.

Me, I could care less what my Sage 1 has. I like it as is for the price, and understand it would be a little higher if solid CF.

Sal has sad he will change it in the catalog, as he should, end of story.





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