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Thanks for this post. I've never heard of KnifeNews. Looks like a very interesting and informative site! Oh yeah, and I do agree with what you are saying about Knivesshipfree as well.
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Spyderco Consumer Announcement
- Thread starter tazkristi
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I agree about ZT's prices compared to BM. Hopefully Spyderco MSRPs become more realistic in the wake of this change.
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I think the main purpose of this move is to create a more level playing field for dealers. The knives are still going to cost Spyderco the same to produce, so if they lowered the MSRP, they'd have to keep the wholesale cost the same and decrease the allowable discount that dealers could offer. Otherwise the dealer's who this is meant to protect would still not be able to compete with the "extra deep discounters". Unless you're buying from a source that charges full MSRP, or close to it, your cost would not change.
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Interesting. Thanks for posting.
Another thing I thought of is if this does impact dealers having trouble getting rid of tough to sell knives, the whole discontinued cycle could speed up a bit. We could see more discontinued stuff sooner and newer stuff soon as well.
Only time will tell how this will all play out.
Only 40% off will not change my buying habits that much. This is unlike with what ZT and Benchmade have done. I have not bought a new ZT or BM since they went MAP.
BMCGear
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Yea, KSF stopped selling Spyderco's and clearanced them out as well as Esee.
Benchmade's MSRP is much lower on similarly priced knives even though they don't discount it as much as 40%.
Why don't they do away with their policy of only selling directly to dealers with a storefront? In all things, less restriction is usually better.
Also, ksf has some serious markups on some of their knives. I thought it might be to balance the less profitable knives, I guess it's just because people will pay it.
Also, ksf has some serious markups on some of their knives. I thought it might be to balance the less profitable knives, I guess it's just because people will pay it.
I was thinking more in terms of prices not increasing as much over time due to the wider distribution that a level playing field may offer.
Did you read the Spyderco clarification article linked from the article about KnivesShipFree? Spyderco does sell directly to some online -only retailers. http://knifenews.com/spyderco-sets-the-record-straight-on-line-only-retailers/
stabman
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I understand what it is.
"Back in my day, retailers could advertise a knife for any damn price they wanted. If they wanted to advertise it for a nickel they could, even if it had cost them a whole dollar...and nickels had bees on them back then...the important part though was that I tied an onion to my belt, which was the style at the time."
Well I didn't see any of that, but whatever you wanna think and whatever people wanna say.
For me, and I'm 21 so there is no back in the day, it's a matter of over regulation. There are better options to fix the issues they face without restricting dealers and consumers.
stabman
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Personally, I don't give a crap what magic formula goes into deciding the prices.
If they want to chop a chicken's head off and have the headless body flop around a chart to decide, so be it.
My concern is having the cash to purchase the things I want.
People seem to be yelling "Freedom!" about all this.
From my perspective, they're really yelling "Cheaper!", and then trying to put an ideological spin on it.
Sal Glesser
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Hi,
We really appreciate all of the comments and opinions. It is appreciated. Also appreciate the "wait 'n see" attitude. We too are watching closely. As some have suggested, we are always trying to provide good product at a fair price. Our business chain is varied and global and this has been a major discussion for the better part of 2 years. We are very careful with major decisions trying at all times to find the "best, best" solution to an issue. We believe this will be a good move, and we appreciate your trust in us.
sal
(also posted on the site forum).
We really appreciate all of the comments and opinions. It is appreciated. Also appreciate the "wait 'n see" attitude. We too are watching closely. As some have suggested, we are always trying to provide good product at a fair price. Our business chain is varied and global and this has been a major discussion for the better part of 2 years. We are very careful with major decisions trying at all times to find the "best, best" solution to an issue. We believe this will be a good move, and we appreciate your trust in us.
sal
(also posted on the site forum).
It's not magic, it's just economics.Personally, I don't give a crap what magic formula goes into deciding the prices.
If they want to chop a chicken's head off and have the headless body flop around a chart to decide, so be it.
My concern is having the cash to purchase the things I want.
People seem to be yelling "Freedom!" about all this.
From my perspective, they're really yelling "Cheaper!", and then trying to put an ideological spin on it.
I can't speak for anyone else, but it's genuinely an economic thing for me. I think less restriction on trade is better, I advocate for it in real life too.
stabman
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The theme of this semester's Master's seminar is economic history.
We have to read lots of tripe written by noted economists.
Economists and wizards have more in common than either would wish to admit.
stabman
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This new MAP policy is quite disheartening. Knife guys, as a general rule, tend to be self-reliant, freedom loving people. That's what makes us knife guys to begin with. The imposition of artificial restraints on the freedom of buyers and sellers to engage in free commerce runs afoul of this notion. That's the core reason why MAP pricing makes us grumpy.
The consumer keep getting kicked in the shins with stuff like this, and is always told how its all for his own good. Well, that's hog hockey. MAP pricing is intended to protect or increase Spyderco's revenue stream by artificially inflating the prices of their products. I stopped buying Benchmade knives when they did this, and I can stop buying Spyderco. If everyone did this, they would stop kicking us in the shins and expecting us to smile about it.
Consider the Delica, which has a completely arbitrary MSRP of $109.95. Multiply by .6 (that is, 40% off MSRP) and you get a 2016 price of $65.97. The gray Delica is currently available for $54.10 shipped from one of America' largest online retailers. So Spyderco's new price-fixing scheme means that Delica will cost 22% more next year. That translates to a $44 price hike on a $200 knife. Great news for the consumer, right?
Maybe the title of this thread should be "Spyderco announces 22% price hike next year!
If bricks-and-mortar stores can't compete with online vendors, then they should be allowed to go out of business. The herd is strengthened, not weakened, when its sickest members can't keep up and are eaten by lions. MAP pricing is little more than a consumer-funded bailout of a business model that is no longer competitive.
I love Spyderco, and Mr. Sal may be the nicest guy on Bladeforums, but I won't be participating.
Good one PowerNoodle!!
Increasing prices in a soaring dollar environment while the Japanese and Taiwainese currencies (where much of the product comes from) are devalued is very sneaky way to make more money. MAP pricing is just plain dirty, anti-competitive, anti-capitalistic, price fixing (collusion) and in my opinion anti-American. I have been a Spyderco raving fan since early 90's but I said bye to Benchmade when they did this and will do the same with Spyderco. I would like an S110V Millie before this non-sense goes down LOL.
In addition, this is a way to "purge"'a dealer network because only the biggest and strongest survive, while the others hit the road, or choke on their existing inventory, wither and die away. You will see these dying dealers eventually liquidate their existing inventories, so there will be one last opportunity to scoop up Spydies on the cheap.
A search on Amazon with the term "Spyderco"'resulted in 5,580 results. Filtering down to "Prime" unscientifically takes it down to 1,500 items. Has Amazon become one of the larger or largest Spyderco dealers???? Is this because of them. All speculation by me of course, but most traditional dealers, even internet / online dealers cannot compete with Amazon.
Even a great company such as Spyderco with great products, cannot overcome horrible policies like this. In time, it will come back to bite them.
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I like the wait and see
Spyderco and sal is aware of potential problems and their open communication would suggest that should this burn us to bad then they will work it out and make it better.
I buy more knives online than my local shop but I swing by and get something because with out them and the owner of that shop selling me a military than I may never got into nice knives which I certainly enjoy. He sold that knife and didn't lie to me, afterward I found his price was high. Dlc coated straight edge about $170ish and this was back in 2013
But the knife was and did just as he said and I appreciate a guy that when I'm gonna pay over $100 for a knife with no knowledge of what makes a knife nice, can do so honestly. My nicest knife before that was a crkt and the Spyderco was a massive step up and more than I expected price wise. I walked in and said I want a real nice knife, real good. And he showed me the door. I don't want him to go out of business. I'll be ordering a df2 next week for an xmas gift from him and likely a bm valet for myself(sorry sal that's a pretty knife but don't worry I got my eye on like 6 more spydercos!)
So if this pricing structure helps my local guy and I can still afford the knives I'm happy
Spyderco and sal is aware of potential problems and their open communication would suggest that should this burn us to bad then they will work it out and make it better.
I buy more knives online than my local shop but I swing by and get something because with out them and the owner of that shop selling me a military than I may never got into nice knives which I certainly enjoy. He sold that knife and didn't lie to me, afterward I found his price was high. Dlc coated straight edge about $170ish and this was back in 2013
But the knife was and did just as he said and I appreciate a guy that when I'm gonna pay over $100 for a knife with no knowledge of what makes a knife nice, can do so honestly. My nicest knife before that was a crkt and the Spyderco was a massive step up and more than I expected price wise. I walked in and said I want a real nice knife, real good. And he showed me the door. I don't want him to go out of business. I'll be ordering a df2 next week for an xmas gift from him and likely a bm valet for myself(sorry sal that's a pretty knife but don't worry I got my eye on like 6 more spydercos!)
So if this pricing structure helps my local guy and I can still afford the knives I'm happy