Spyderco Endura 4 or Benchmade 710

I don't own either one so take this comment for what it's worth. I do own a BM 556 Mini-Grip and with a smidgen of practice I can open it just like a waved knife by catching the thumb stud on the side of my jeans pocket. I can open it at panic speed 95% of the time. The other 5% of the time I pull the Axis button back and flick my wrist a little and it snaps open.

That being said, I'm seriously looking at a Spyderco 'waved' Delica as a backup sharp object. I have two pockets and the other pocket is looking lonely :)


Just my $0.02
 
The trouble with questions like this is that knowledgeable people who own and use both knives with not offer consistent advice. For example, some people love the wave feature. I don't find it useful. I can open my 710 -- and be in a position to use it -- faster than I can my waved Endura. These are both very good knives. But you won't know which YOU like better until YOU try both of them. Sell the one you like least. Personally, I think the Military in BG-42 is the new standard for knives in this class for all around performance.
 
Twindog is right, we like way too many knives. I own an older Military in S30V, fully serrated and I have hated it from the day I bought it. Tossed it in my glove box as a car knife. But the 710 and E4 waved, I love them both. You can't go wrong. My favorite all around BM is the 94x series of knives. Only has 3.5 inches of blade but its one of those all time classic designs.
 
If you care about the legality of your knive, a waved blade could be easily considered a weapon in some areas. Many places have laws that say knives as tools are OK, but not weapons. There is no real need for a wave feature other than in a weapon's application.

Last week's cops had an arrest where a knife clipped in the pocket was considered "concealed." Kind of hard to belive because the officer noticed the knife because it was clipped, and the girl with the knife protested but the young policewoman seem sure of her perception of the law. Put these together with a wave knife and some places may be able to get you on a felony charge of concealed weapon. Remember, cops no longer need probable cause to search someone for weapons, they can do that based upon their personal security perceptions.
 
I like both but the Wave feature is hard to argue with for this knife. The Spyderco Waves are the best in the industry hands down on a factory knife. Much easier on pockets and just plain easier to work reliably.

I've owned a 710 and sold it. I like the Mini Rukus much better to be honest with you.

STR
 
I've every day carried a 710 for over 5 years and I love it. You cannot beat the axis lock for ease of opening and strength. Mine has been used constantly and there is no blade play and the springs work like new. A fantastic knife.:thumbup:
 
brownshoe said:
There is no real need for a wave feature other than in a weapon's application.
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Really? You must not be able to think beyond your own perceptions. That really is a shame! I could name several, non-"weapon" related situations where quicker, one-handed opening of a folding knife would be ideal. One would think that any other knife user/enthusiast could do the same.

I guess the next thing you'll tell us is that there is no real need for a one-hand opening feature, such as a thumbstud, other than in a weapon's application.:rolleyes:

Just because you can't think of it, it doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

Regards,
3G
 
Yea, I can't agree with that statement about the wave feature. And as for police officers/perception of law, thats a sticky issue. Even if you are right, it will probably take alot of time, effort, cash, etc. to prove it. I would like to see anything concrete that makes the wave illegal that doesn't also make any one handed opener illegal also.
 
I'm not a lawyer, but I seriously doubt the validity of some parts of this statement...

If you care about the legality of your knive, a waved blade could be easily considered a weapon in some areas.
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I don't think that the addition of the wave feature would make a difference in whether a cop would consider it a weapon or not.
And you can't see that the knife is waved until it's out of the pocket anyway.

Many places have laws that say knives as tools are OK, but not weapons.
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True.
That's why we have courts.

There is no real need for a wave feature other than in a weapon's application.
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I disagree.
The purpose of the wave feature is merely to open the knife quicker as you draw it, regardless of its intended use.

Last week's cops had an arrest where a knife clipped in the pocket was considered "concealed." Kind of hard to belive because the officer noticed the knife because it was clipped, and the girl with the knife protested but the young policewoman seem sure of her perception of the law. Put these together with a wave knife and some places may be able to get you on a felony charge of concealed weapon.
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A cop can charge you with whatever he or she wants.
But cops are not lawyers and they are often proven wrong in a court of law.
And I'm not sure about where you live, but I don't think carrying a concealed knife is a felony in most states.

Remember, cops no longer need probable cause to search someone for weapons, they can do that based upon their personal security perceptions.
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Please elaborate.
My sister-in-law is a cop and she says that you steel need probable cause to search someone....especially if you want a conviction in the courtroom.
Searching someone without probable cause is a defense lawyer's dream come true.
 
allenC said:
Please elaborate.
My sister-in-law is a cop and she says that you steel need probable cause to search someone....especially if you want a conviction in the courtroom.
Searching someone without probable cause is a defense lawyer's dream come true.
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You need "probable cause" to "search" someone but IIRC you only need
"reasonable suspicion" to do a "pat down".
 
brownshoe said:
Go for the 710. Three biggest reasons from my POV, are BM's American construction, BM stocks repair parts for old models, BM has a better fit/finish. Plus, you may get an endura with some blade play, since spyderco considers some play in lockbacks normal.
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IIRC, Spyderco has repair kits for the Delica and Endura 4's now.

Don't forget that you can use the wave to open bottles also:D

Bruceter
 
A supreme court decision in the late 1990s indicated that a police officer can search for weapons w/o the previous need to determine probably cause related to an arrest for a misdemeanor or felony. The only cause the officer needs is "personal safety" and this can be applied by the officer before they even question you or applied as a matter of policy. For example, that's why on drunk stops as a matter of policy they can remove you from the car and "pat you down" for weapons before they question you or give you a sobriety test. They used to have to have cause, such as aggressive behaviour or actual evidence of intoxication, such as whiskey breath.

Your sister-in-law is correct you need cause to search someone for theft, you have to have probable cause, but she can pat them down for weapons as a matter of her personal safety. Then she can remove that hard object in their pants to see what it is...low and behold its the swagg.

This isn't law, but court decisions, I've seen or experienced this personally in big midwestern cities to tiny new hampshire towns. The original "law" was not law at all but court decisions, which have changed with the more conservative supreme court.

Your kidding yourself if you think there is a legitimate purpose for the wave other than as a weapon. The inventor certainly creates weapons and markets the wave for that purpose. A one-hand or assisted opener knife would get your knife open quick enough for any emergency. The wave brings your knife out of the pocket, open and ready for use as a weapon...just like a switchblade.

Remember laws change as you move around. I used to live in a place where my balisong was legal, until I went 10 blocks west then it was specifically classified as a weapon and was equivalent to carrying a gun.
 
Reasonable suspicion is all it takes for a pat down. However, what is reasonable to me may not be to you.
 
I imagine if legality is an issue, then both the wave and the Axis would be in question depending on where one was, when "found" in possesion of either model.

sal
 
brownshoe said:
Your kidding yourself if you think there is a legitimate purpose for the wave other than as a weapon. The inventor certainly creates weapons and markets the wave for that purpose. A one-hand or assisted opener knife would get your knife open quick enough for any emergency. The wave brings your knife out of the pocket, open and ready for use as a weapon...just like a switchblade.
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So, once again, the "quickness" with which a folding knife is opened is your real point of contention here.

So, Brownshoe, would you agree that if a Honda Civic goes faster than a Toyota Camry, it must be defined as a "racecar"?:rolleyes:

Regards,
3G
 
Back to your origional question.. There will always be debates based on how you intend to use your knives. I own both the new Endura 4 plain edge and a BM 710 plain edge in ATS34. The Spyderco is a good buy for half the cost of a BM. But, IMHO the 710 is for more useful design for most everyday tasks. In particular, the blade on the Endura is almost twice as thick as the BM. The thickness makes it too thick for fine work such as slicing and dicing or other food prep activities. The BM is thin enough for food prep but stought enough for camp activites such as making fuss sticks, butchering game, etc. I think if you need a blade as thick as the Endura then you probably need a fixed blade knife. As far as locks, Axis is best, hands down. I would also suggest you look at the Doug Ritter Mk1 Griptillian in S30V; I absolutely love it! Hope this is helpful
 
Glesser, you're mixing your apples and oranges. Just like 3guardsmen and his cars. The axis lock was not designed as an integral part of a weapon like the wave. The axis lock is a lock, the wave is an opening feature designed for quick deployment for use of a knife as a weapon not a tool. That's what emerson has said and that's why the users of the feature buy it.

Remember, their are a lot of laws that depend upon the intended purpose of the knife as to whether or not it is classified as a weapon.

The Benchmade's intended purpose is for use as a tool. A knife with the wave's intended purpose is as a weapon. If not as a weapon, why not buy a regular endura, it opens pretty quick with the hole.


The comparison to use 3guardsmen is not between a civic and a camry, but between a crown vic police special with a ramming package on the front and a street crown vic with a chrome bumper :)
 
GLively said:
I've every day carried a 710 for over 5 years and I love it. You cannot beat the axis lock for ease of opening and strength. Mine has been used constantly and there is no blade play and the springs work like new. A fantastic knife.:thumbup:
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Same here, but come this April it will be 7 years of near EDC for me with no problems. If anything, it works better now than when it was new. Also it's always ready to go, even if it's filthy dirty inside, like full of pocket lint from months of EDC in jeans without cleaning. I've had lockbacks fail after a single day of carry because a little piece of lint or other pocket junk (little bit of paper, etc) got between the lock. It's annoying when you need your knife and you are sitting there trying to blow out trash from the lock so you can get the lock to engage. The AXIS lock self cleans, it just pushes any dirt away and locks up.
 
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