Spyderco Manix 2 and Benchmade Griptillian - Next 2 test knives

[singularity35]

So what is the excuse now?

1. Sabotage
2. Lock design flaw
3. Lock design limitation
4. Misunderstanding about "tank" status
5. Bias

 

[Ankerson]

IMO Spyderco already has a knife in their catalog that really has the potential to be a true hard use knife with some beefing up. :thumbup:

The Military could be if they changed the blade grind and shape and got rid of that needle point. They could beef up the knife some and it really could be something and it really wouldn't take that much to do it.

 

[LorenzoL]

In that respect, the Bradley does not need any beefing up.

 

[singularity35]

IMO Spyderco already has a knife in their catalog that really has the potential to be a true hard use knife with some beefing up. :thumbup:

The Military could be if they changed the blade grind and shape and got rid of that needle point. They could beef up the knife some and it really could be something and it really wouldn't take that much to do it.

I'd be all over that. How the chinook 3's MBC rating would do in the your protocol would also be of interest to me. No, I won't donate mine

In that respect, the Bradley does not need any beefing up.

Wouldn't the lack of a deeper choil preclude hard use?

 

[Ankerson]

In that respect, the Bradley does not need any beefing up.

Not sure about that one as I never used one.

The Military on the other hand I have used, owned 2 of them. :thumbup:

The biggest weakness on that knife is the blade IMO.

That's why I said it really wouldn't take much to get it there.

 

[Josh K]

Not sure about that one as I never used one.

The Military on the other hand I have used, owned 2 of them. :thumbup:

The biggest weakness on that knife is the blade IMO.

That's why I said it really wouldn't take much to get it there.

Bolts man. Bolts and splitting firewood.

 

[Ankerson]

I'd be all over that. How the chinook 3's MBC rating would do in the your protocol would also be of interest to me. No, I won't donate mine



Wouldn't the lack of a deeper choil preclude hard use?

I am not buying anymore knives to test, but I will take donations. :thumbup:

 

[Ankerson]

Bolts man. Bolts and splitting firewood.

Josh,

I don't think it would pass the prying part of it in current form.

The rest of the knife is good. :thumbup:

 

[singularity35]

I do absolutely love the ergos on the military. Maybe also a smaller cutout for the liner lock. Less chance of inadvertent release if the the knife twists. But it seems that in their forum the customer base is asking for smaller, lighter, thinner. Maybe Spyderco is going towards specializing in knives optimized for slicing. They might be aiming for that niche.

 

[philwar]

I actually agree with both your statements in bold. I never claimed that the M2 is perfect, I just think that many people have the wrong expectations about a $70 knife with a 3mm-thick blade that weighs just over 4 ounces. Kind of like buying a small 4x4 and expect it to perform off-road like a Hummer.

I totally agree, but the point is, at least some of those expectations have been created by Spyderco.

What I was reacting very strongly against in my earlier posts were the personal attacks against Sal & Eric, especially those questioning their integrity.

I honestly don't recall those, I certainly never assigned blame myself. I did criticise Eric's response to Jim, I think it was unprofessional and defensive, where there was no need to be defensive. IMHO, no one was attacking Spyderco.

I can state that Spyderco has the best warranty department of any production company.

I don't know if that is literally true but I have very rarely heard anything negative about them, and my personal experience is nothing but positive as well.
Again, no one is attacking them. Spyderco has an outstanding reputation, well-earned, and everybody here knows it.

 

[philwar]

The Manix 2 is a compromise, I spend some time on the Spyderco forum and most of the talk there is about getting thinner blades and lighter knives. I think that the last thing that customer base wants/needs is a true "tank" of a knife and for their needs the Manix 2 is certainly strong enough.

I think Spyderco would do well to produce at least one or two blades that can compete (in hard-use terms) with knives such as the Cold Steel American Lawman. It would be no problem for them to do so. The Spyderco fanbase seems to want every single knife to be a slight variation of this theme:
3 mm thick blade, distal tapered, exquisite tip. Minute variations in scale color and material, different grinds, different steels for the exact same knife and we're happy as pigs in sh1t.

I do recall that a large number of people were very happy with the Manix 1. It is arguably the most beefy folder Spyderco has made to date. Why can't there be 90% superslicers, and 2 or 3 beefy tough models? But the Manix 1 was discontinued, to be replaced by a weaker variant. The Paramilitary 2 has a thinner blade. Spyderco needs MORE folders with beefier blades, not fewer.
Just MHO of course. But Spyderco could easily make folders as tough as any around. Don't you think they'd find a massive fan base for those as well?

 

[Scott Neelan]

Right, because Spyderco is known for "tricking" people with their warranty "loopholes."

What a looser. :thumbdn:

I never said they've done it. I never said they were known for it. I said it was put there, likely by a marketing person, so that they could. Reading comprehension fail.

 

[Ankerson]

I think Spyderco would do well to produce at least one or two blades that can compete (in hard-use terms) with knives such as the Cold Steel American Lawman. It would be no problem for them to do so. The Spyderco fanbase seems to want every single knife to be a slight variation of this theme:
3 mm thick blade, distal tapered, exquisite tip. Minute variations in scale color and material, different grinds, different steels for the exact same knife and we're happy as pigs in sh1t.

I do recall that a large number of people were very happy with the Manix 1. It is arguably the most beefy folder Spyderco has made to date. Why can't there be 90% superslicers, and 2 or 3 beefy tough models? But the Manix 1 was discontinued, to be replaced by a weaker variant. The Paramilitary 2 has a thinner blade. Spyderco needs MORE folders with beefier blades, not fewer.
Just MHO of course. But Spyderco could easily make folders as tough as any around. Don't you think they'd find a massive fan base for those as well?

I agree, they could make some very strong HD Hard Use folders if they really wanted to that would be great. :thumbup:

But I guess they keep hearing from customers that they want cheese slicers, mail openers and fingernail pickers that weigh less than 4 ounces.

Well that's great if that's what they want, but there do seem to be others that really do want a HD folder that will really take some serious work. If there wasn't then nobody would be making them and selling the heck out them like they are.

I really do believe that if Spyderco would make them they would sell, maybe not to the cheese slicer and letter opener crowd but they don't make up the entire market.

 

[Scott Neelan]

What I was reacting very strongly against in my earlier posts were the personal attacks against Sal & Eric, especially those questioning their integrity. I have bought many Spydercos over the years (as well as BMs, CRKs so I am quite open-minded) and I can state that Spyderco has the best warranty department of any production company. I have returned folders with blade-centering issues and small cosmetic issues and they were exchanged with no questions asked.

I made no personal attacks against Sal. I didn't make personal attacks against Eric either. I didn't even comment on this thread until he came onto this forum and showed a rather strong contempt toward Ankerson and tried to discredit him and his test completely.

If I were a knifemaker and had heard about one of my designs failing so spectacularly, I would want to figure out what exactly happened. If it were sent to me, and in my investigation I found there was nothing wrong with the knife and that the design simply wasn't able to take the stresses of a certain test, I would publicly admit that.

And at no time would I imply there was some sort of bias on the part of the tester, unless it was blatant and I could prove it. At no time would I be rude, nor would I be dismissive of legitimate concerns. The failure of a lock to handle impact is a legitimate concern, especially a lock that's marketed as "hard use rated".

I will say that whoever writes the descriptions for Spyderco's website and catalog should refrain from using buzzwords that sell a knife as something it isn't. I personally would never have used a Manix 2 for anything more than general EDC tasks, and would've never labelled or marketed it for anything else either. It would still sell well if sold honestly.

 

[stabman]

But I guess they keep hearing from customers that they want cheese slicers, mail openers and fingernail pickers that weigh less than 4 ounces.

I really do believe that if Spyderco would make them they would sell, maybe not to the cheese slicer and letter opener crowd but they don't make up the entire market.

It's comments like this that make the whole situation questionable.
Yo have to admit that to an outside observer (such as myself) there appears to be a bias on your part towards the company.
If you want to be taken as impartial, using impartial language would make it at least appear credible.

 

[Ankerson]

It's comments like this that make the whole situation questionable.
Yo have to admit that to an outside observer (such as myself) there appears to be a bias on your part towards the company.
If you want to be taken as impartial, using impartial language would make it at least appear credible.

I was pointing out some simple facts.

Not every knife on the market needs to be some kind of laser edged needle pointed thin bladed slicer to sell.

There are some that want those then there are others who want those and something else that is heavy duty.

If you have an issue with my description than that's your opinion and that's fine. I also have my opinions too and here they are.

I can't carry one of my Busses every place that I go, if I could I wouldn't need any HD folders now would I?

A hard use folder is a FB replacement that should be able to handle most of what a FB can when carrying a FB just isn't possible or convenient for other reasons.

That covers a lot of the current market these days because most people can't just walk around with a fixed blade on their belt or even concealed.

When I was young and could carry a fixed blade and not risk getting locked up that's what I carried along with a slip joint for the small stuff, usually a stockman.

Today with the way things are that's just not possible for most people.

Enter the Hard Use folder.

 

[Steven Andrews]

But I guess they keep hearing from customers that they want cheese slicers, mail openers and fingernail pickers that weigh less than 4 ounces.

Spyderco's customers also want a knife that, when extricating an injured guy from a smashed up Audi convertible, will slice through the soft top of the roof to expose the steel struts for the firefighter using the hydraulic cutters to cut.

That time, for me, it was an unlined III Gen Delica. A lightweight knife that, when not in a firefighter's gear, is also great for slicing cheese and opening mail.

 

[Ankerson]

Spyderco's customers also want a knife that, when extricating an injured guy from a smashed up Audi convertible, will slice through the soft top of the roof to expose the steel struts for the firefighter using the hydraulic cutters to cut.

That time, for me, it was an unlined III Gen Delica. A lightweight knife that, when not in a firefighter's gear, is also great for slicing cheese and opening mail.

That could have been done with an SAK or a razor knife as well.

Not exactly hard use.

Now the guy who battened his Strider through the battery cable that was different.

The reason why there is an XM-18, fire fighters and EMT people.

 

[OrdnanceBubbaUSMC]

I really liked my Paramilitary and it's locking mechanism, would have been very nice to see Paramilitary 2 with a beefier blade with a stronger tip. Too short after the tip breaks.

 

[Steven Andrews]

That could have been done with an SAK or a razor knife as well.

Not exactly hard use.

Now the guy who battened his Strider through the battery cable that was different.

The reason why there is an XM-18, fire fighters and EMT people.

No, not exactly hard use, but I have served for 12 years as a firefighter and have never been in a situation where I have needed a "hard use" folder. However, there have been plenty of times when I've needed a sharp knife that I could produce quickly while wearing gloves.

How many firefighters and EMTs carry a $400 XM-18 in their gear?
In my experience price is a very important consideration when a firefighter, police officer, EMT etc chooses a knife. Yes, there are knife nuts who are firefighters, but how do the other 99.9% of users get by with a slipjoint SAK, a lightweight lock knife or a pair of EMT shears?

I don't have a problem with knife nuts buying "hard use" folders - it's their right to buy whatever they want, but I object to a good solid tool like a Spyderco, that is 100% appropriate for professional use, being dismissed as "a cheese slicer".