-
The BladeForums.com 2024 Traditional Knife is ready to order! See this thread for details: https://www.bladeforums.com/threads/bladeforums-2024-traditional-knife.2003187/
Price is$300$250 ea (shipped within CONUS). If you live outside the US, I will contact you after your order for extra shipping charges.
Order here: https://www.bladeforums.com/help/2024-traditional/ - Order as many as you like, we have plenty.
SPYDERCO MANIX2 S110V - rope test & Epic Fail !
- Thread starter slava77
- Start date
BluntCut MetalWorks
Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider
- Joined
- Apr 28, 2012
- Messages
- 3,462
fwiw - http://belgiansharpening.wordpress.com/2014/08/21/spyderco-manix-2-s110v-review/
There are conflicting s110v reviews out there. I need to make a few more s110v knives before deciding whether s110v steel is a good fit for my products or not. The 2 s110v knives I made were chippy until I lowered the hardness to 59rc and wear resistant was similar to s30v. Tests were informal, so scrutiny not
There are conflicting s110v reviews out there. I need to make a few more s110v knives before deciding whether s110v steel is a good fit for my products or not. The 2 s110v knives I made were chippy until I lowered the hardness to 59rc and wear resistant was similar to s30v. Tests were informal, so scrutiny not
fwiw - http://belgiansharpening.wordpress.com/2014/08/21/spyderco-manix-2-s110v-review/
There are conflicting s110v reviews out there. I need to make a few more s110v knives before deciding whether s110v steel is a good fit for my products or not. The 2 s110v knives I made were chippy until I lowered the hardness to 59rc and wear resistant was similar to s30v. Tests were informal, so scrutiny not
excellent review,short and truthful !
Out of the box/Factory edge - very familiar to me ,and the rest, too )
fwiw - http://belgiansharpening.wordpress.com/2014/08/21/spyderco-manix-2-s110v-review/
There are conflicting s110v reviews out there. I need to make a few more s110v knives before deciding whether s110v steel is a good fit for my products or not. The 2 s110v knives I made were chippy until I lowered the hardness to 59rc and wear resistant was similar to s30v. Tests were informal, so scrutiny not
I want to add that 62-64HRC is a working hardness of this steel, lower hardness does not make sense, does not differ much from s30v
Last edited:
BluntCut MetalWorks
Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider
- Joined
- Apr 28, 2012
- Messages
- 3,462
It depends on intended usage. My requirement - take a 1x1" piece a dry oak or hardwood, vertically strike down onto the edge. Difficult for many high alloy steels to pass this requirement. So far only my D2 at 62+RC made it. Sure, can be said, don't use wrong steels for this tasks 
I understand high alloy wear resistant reason for use these high carbide volume steels but inadvertent-chips are unsatisfactory for customers. High aust temp + cryo = easy high hrc. More importantly blade design & edge geometry + sharpening + cutting style are even more critical for intended uses.
I understand high alloy wear resistant reason for use these high carbide volume steels but inadvertent-chips are unsatisfactory for customers. High aust temp + cryo = easy high hrc. More importantly blade design & edge geometry + sharpening + cutting style are even more critical for intended uses.
So one person cuts up a cardboard box, and S110V chips badly.
Then another person cuts up a cardboard box, and the S110V rolls.
So one person tests S110V at a modest 15 dps, and the edge can't take it.
Then another person tests S110V with a super thin edge (0.005 at the edge shoulders), and it sets the record for long cutting through a harsh medium.
And yet another person tests S110V on the same medium, and it ranks as an utter fail.
Either people are not testing these steels correctly, or quality control by one of America's top knife manufacturers is a four-star horror show. I can't tell what is going on.
Then another person cuts up a cardboard box, and the S110V rolls.
So one person tests S110V at a modest 15 dps, and the edge can't take it.
Then another person tests S110V with a super thin edge (0.005 at the edge shoulders), and it sets the record for long cutting through a harsh medium.
And yet another person tests S110V on the same medium, and it ranks as an utter fail.
Either people are not testing these steels correctly, or quality control by one of America's top knife manufacturers is a four-star horror show. I can't tell what is going on.
I agree,there are many factors.good high alloy steel well keep the small-angle sharpening and lateral loads, for example 3V at 60-62HRC.It depends on intended usage. My requirement - take a 1x1" piece a dry oak or hardwood, vertically strike down onto the edge. Difficult for many high alloy steels to pass this requirement. So far only my D2 at 62+RC made it. Sure, can be said, don't use wrong steels for this tasks
I understand high alloy wear resistant reason for use these high carbide volume steels but inadvertent-chips are unsatisfactory for customers. High aust temp + cryo = easy high hrc. More importantly blade design & edge geometry + sharpening + cutting style are even more critical for intended uses.
about any sharpening angle and thickness of the cutting edge you say on D2 at 62+RC,what is the model of a knife ?
So far, only one had a good result all of them
but he has not yet commented on this post
Steels this level is not for the average consumer,and have to be the potentials inherent in them.It depends on intended usage. My requirement - take a 1x1" piece a dry oak or hardwood, vertically strike down onto the edge. Difficult for many high alloy steels to pass this requirement. So far only my D2 at 62+RC made it. Sure, can be said, don't use wrong steels for this tasks
I understand high alloy wear resistant reason for use these high carbide volume steels but inadvertent-chips are unsatisfactory for customers. High aust temp + cryo = easy high hrc. More importantly blade design & edge geometry + sharpening + cutting style are even more critical for intended uses.
otherwise you will have a car icon with the Ferarri but riding as Hyundai
- Joined
- Apr 7, 2014
- Messages
- 866
I did not need to imply that you had other intentions, I simply meant that the initial videos were not clear to non-Russian speakers. Thank you for organizing the videos and establishing some context, I look forward to watching them later this evening.
One other possibility: edge retention does rely on sharpening technique to some extent. For example, if a burr is left and is simply straightened out with stropping, then it will soon collapse during actual use and the edge will disappear rather quickly. So I wonder if since S110V is rather difficult to sharpen without the proper equipment, shortcuts and poor technique were used either out of frustration or to compensate for it. Now, the Belgian Sharpening link from bluntcut (as well as their own experience) is interesting because they obviously know how to sharpen, so perhaps that's not the case.
But in Ankerson's testing, I believe he used 400 grit. Some of these other tests used a more polished edge. I was actually curious about this a while ago and tried something similar out, but unfortunately, I didn't structure any proper testing. So while this is a subjective impression,when I applied a 1200 grit edge to D2, I saw that initial "razor" edge disappear pretty quickly, and it didn't "settle into" a "working" edge that well. On the other hand, when I stopped at 600 grit, that "working" edge it settled into lasted a little longer (again, this is subjective, but if I had to guess, it cleanly sliced paper about 20% longer than the 1200 grit edge). I might have to purchase another D2 blade to test this out, since I've since sold that particular knife.
So I wonder if the varying forms of edge deformation depending on the initial level of polish affect edge retention in high carbide/high wear resistant steels? Hopefully someone with a bit more experience could tell me if I'm barking up the wrong tree here, otherwise I may order a BK24 to test this particular hypothesis out.
regard sharpening 600 grit ,this is the case for some steels.depends on the structure of the steel and its hardness.I myself sometimes use this method
As for s110v on 400 grit, I doubt very much that the knife will cut paper...
- Joined
- Apr 7, 2014
- Messages
- 866
I don't know about that. Whenever I reprofile using a DMT course hone (which is courser than 400 grit), I can slice paper.
Because of this thread and some of the reports linked within it, I decided to give a quick test to my S110V Mule. I didn’t sharpen it. It came from the factory relatively sharp. It could slice notebook paper and to some extent push-cut newspaper, but it was not as sharp as my own self-sharpened knives. Sharp, but not especially sharp.
The edge was 18/24 dps, with a very well done point. The width of the edge shoulders was 0.0175, which is pretty acute for a factory knife. Nice geometry. Full flat grind.
Test one was to cut up some cardboard. I cut 126 feet of cardboard. The knife lost a ton of its sharpness during this test. During crosscuts of the corrugations, the cardboard would accordion up me. I pulled out my Military M4 a couple times just for reference, and it had no trouble cutting the cardboard, but it didn’t use it for an extended test and my Military was much sharper than the Mule to begin with. In the end, the Mule could not easily slice notebook paper when I was done, unless I caught the edge of the paper just right. There was no edge damage at all. No chipping. No rolling. No flat spots. It just got dull, with a working edge only, helped a lot by good geometry.
Test two was to whittle an 18-inch, sun-hardened Doug fir 2x4 to a point. This was not easy because the wood was so big and hard and because the knife was dull. I had to use a lot of lateral prying to free the larger shavings. No edge damage. No chipping. No rolling. No flat spots.
Test three was to baton the Mule through said 2x4. This went somewhat easily, although it was not easy to find a place to baton on the spine because the knife is so small. I reduced the 2x4 to splinters. At one point, I hammered the blade into a knot, which stopped my progress. I withdrew the knife from that spot, and continued with the test.
At the end, there was no edge damage, but the knife was working-edge dull. There was no edge damage. No chipping. No rolling. No flat spots.
Ankerson’s tests are far more controlled than mine, and I didn’t start with all that sharp of an edge. But the wear resistance I found would not match Jim’s results.
On the other hand, the edge was very stable, especially given the acute edge geometry. I whaled on that Mule pretty good — like it was a rented mule — and no damage. So the testers who rolled or chipped their edge on simple tasks such as cutting up a single cardboard box, had blades that were far, far different than mine.
The edge was 18/24 dps, with a very well done point. The width of the edge shoulders was 0.0175, which is pretty acute for a factory knife. Nice geometry. Full flat grind.
Test one was to cut up some cardboard. I cut 126 feet of cardboard. The knife lost a ton of its sharpness during this test. During crosscuts of the corrugations, the cardboard would accordion up me. I pulled out my Military M4 a couple times just for reference, and it had no trouble cutting the cardboard, but it didn’t use it for an extended test and my Military was much sharper than the Mule to begin with. In the end, the Mule could not easily slice notebook paper when I was done, unless I caught the edge of the paper just right. There was no edge damage at all. No chipping. No rolling. No flat spots. It just got dull, with a working edge only, helped a lot by good geometry.
Test two was to whittle an 18-inch, sun-hardened Doug fir 2x4 to a point. This was not easy because the wood was so big and hard and because the knife was dull. I had to use a lot of lateral prying to free the larger shavings. No edge damage. No chipping. No rolling. No flat spots.
Test three was to baton the Mule through said 2x4. This went somewhat easily, although it was not easy to find a place to baton on the spine because the knife is so small. I reduced the 2x4 to splinters. At one point, I hammered the blade into a knot, which stopped my progress. I withdrew the knife from that spot, and continued with the test.
At the end, there was no edge damage, but the knife was working-edge dull. There was no edge damage. No chipping. No rolling. No flat spots.
Ankerson’s tests are far more controlled than mine, and I didn’t start with all that sharp of an edge. But the wear resistance I found would not match Jim’s results.
On the other hand, the edge was very stable, especially given the acute edge geometry. I whaled on that Mule pretty good — like it was a rented mule — and no damage. So the testers who rolled or chipped their edge on simple tasks such as cutting up a single cardboard box, had blades that were far, far different than mine.
- Joined
- Jan 28, 2011
- Messages
- 2,945
You should repeat your test at 400 grit and 15dps to more closely approximate Ankerson's testing. I didn't see mention of adding a microbevel, so skip that.
Do this, and we'll have a more valid comparison. Maybe this steel only does exceptionally well with a toothy edge? I'm far from an expert but something seems off here.
Last edited:
That's a bummer, mine cuts great. This directly contradicts my informal testing. My S110V M2 is among the best in my collection (which includes customs), and is the best production knife in my collection WRT edge retention in this type of cutting. Maybe you should contact Spyderco to have them take a look at it.
I just resharpened my S110V Mule. At 400 grit, it didn't take a very good edge. It would not slice paper effectively, as Slava said. But by the time I finished -- 1600 grit ceramic followed by 1.0u and 0.5u diamond paste stropping -- it was razor sharp. Way sharper than the factory edge. On most steels, I can get a sharp edge at 600 grit or so, although I usually take it higher. But S110V didn't like the lower grits, but it loves the higher grits.
I'd be curious to see how it does after you have sharpened it like this. Initial sharpness can have a huge effect on edge retention, but I'm pretty sure you already knew that.
Ankerson
Knife and Computer Geek
- Joined
- Nov 2, 2002
- Messages
- 21,094