SPYDERCO MANIX2 S110V - rope test & Epic Fail !

slava77 said:
knives sharpened at different angles - 30 , 40 , 30 with microbevel 36 and 40,with different finish - diamond 9 mic,ceramics and natural stone.
- ineffectually
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I know there is a language barrier, as I only speak English, and not very well at that, but I want to make sure I'm clear on the sharpening. It is my firm belief that sharpening will have a large influence over cutting test results, making comparisons from one person to another quite tricky.

So you have sharpened at 30 degrees inclusive (15 + 15), 40 degrees inclusive (20 + 20), and 30 degrees inclusive (15 + 15) with microbevels of 36 (18 + 18) and 40 (20 + 20)? Is this correct? You have also finished the edges using a 9 micron diamond stone, fine ceramic, and a natural stone? All these different methods were used, and each failed to produce what you consider good edge retention on rope using this S110V blade? In each case you did not get more than 180 to 200 cuts on that rope before it stopped slicing paper?

What is on the outside of the rope?
 
Twindog said:
Because of this thread and some of the reports linked within it, I decided to give a quick test to my S110V Mule. I didn’t sharpen it. It came from the factory relatively sharp. It could slice notebook paper and to some extent push-cut newspaper, but it was not as sharp as my own self-sharpened knives. Sharp, but not especially sharp.

The edge was 18/24 dps, with a very well done point. The width of the edge shoulders was 0.0175, which is pretty acute for a factory knife. Nice geometry. Full flat grind.

Test one was to cut up some cardboard. I cut 126 feet of cardboard. The knife lost a ton of its sharpness during this test. During crosscuts of the corrugations, the cardboard would accordion up me. I pulled out my Military M4 a couple times just for reference, and it had no trouble cutting the cardboard, but it didn’t use it for an extended test and my Military was much sharper than the Mule to begin with. In the end, the Mule could not easily slice notebook paper when I was done, unless I caught the edge of the paper just right. There was no edge damage at all. No chipping. No rolling. No flat spots. It just got dull, with a working edge only, helped a lot by good geometry.
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Your cardboard cutting is especially interesting. I am currently running a test on a very inexpensive knife with a 420HC blade set at 12 dps (degrees per side) with a 15 dps microbevel from the Sharpmaker medium rod flat surfaces (flats of triangles, not corners). I am at 180 feet of cardboard, and the edge still slices fine paper (receipt) and shaves my leg (people can see my arms at work). Did you try the cardboard again after sharpening it?
 
me2 said:
Your cardboard cutting is especially interesting. I am currently running a test on a very inexpensive knife with a 420HC blade set at 12 dps (degrees per side) with a 15 dps microbevel from the Sharpmaker medium rod flat surfaces (flats of triangles, not corners). I am at 180 feet of cardboard, and the edge still slices fine paper (receipt) and shaves my leg (people can see my arms at work). Did you try the cardboard again after sharpening it?
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I didn't redo the cardboard test after I reprofiled and resharpened. I wasn't trying to duplicate Ankerson's tests, I just wanted to test the notion that Spyderco's S110V is prone to chipping and/or rolling under even light use. I think it's well established that S110V has excellent wear resistance. And, as Sodak mentioned, the initial sharpness makes a huge difference. But I did notice a large drop off in sharpness during the cutting of the cardboard, which I did not expect.

The OP sounds very knowledgeable, so I'm guessing that he ran into a bad blade. It's easy to say that the heat treat was the problem, but I have no way of knowing. In the ordinary coarse of things, Spyderco's S110V blades are excellent, long-wear knives. If there were a problem with chipping or rolling on just cardboard, my tests on cardboard, whittling and batoning would have picked it up.
 
me2 said:
I know there is a language barrier, as I only speak English, and not very well at that, but I want to make sure I'm clear on the sharpening. It is my firm belief that sharpening will have a large influence over cutting test results, making comparisons from one person to another quite tricky.

So you have sharpened at 30 degrees inclusive (15 + 15), 40 degrees inclusive (20 + 20), and 30 degrees inclusive (15 + 15) with microbevels of 36 (18 + 18) and 40 (20 + 20)? Is this correct? You have also finished the edges using a 9 micron diamond stone, fine ceramic, and a natural stone? All these different methods were used, and each failed to produce what you consider good edge retention on rope using this S110V blade? In each case you did not get more than 180 to 200 cuts on that rope before it stopped slicing paper?

What is on the outside of the rope?
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exactly
 
The sharpeni.g procedure was the same as for other complex steels like M390? Do you cut until the knife won't slice paper, or is there another stopping point?
 
whp said:
JNewell said:
We have seen this before. :rolleyes:[/QUOTE

I trust Jim Ankerson s tests.
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It's not really wise to dismiss testing that gives different results without a fair amount of further investigation. In this thread we have several tests and procedures that have different results; most are not positive. I don't think its a heat treatment issue, and in any case that is the most difficult/expensive thing for an end user to check.
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me2 said:
The sharpeni.g procedure was the same as for other complex steels like M390? Do you cut until the knife won't slice paper, or is there another stopping point?
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I don't know that I entirely trust their sharpening procedure if they can't get it to slice paper at 400 grit.
 
The sharpening has been my suspect from the start. However, the language barrier and the nature of internet discussion requires some clarification. Cutting paper means different things to different people.
 
me2 said:
The sharpening has been my suspect from the start. However, the language barrier and the nature of internet discussion requires some clarification. Cutting paper means different things to different people.
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And here you are right:) We are talking about high-quality cutting and not tear the paper with serrated edge.as for factory sharpening can be satisfied with DMT 600 grit,but not in this case.
about my impressions of sharpening this steel,particular difficulties were not,felt plasticity in the behavior of burr,a little longer than the time required M390 from BM possibly
 
bluntcut said:
fwiw - http://belgiansharpening.wordpress.com/2014/08/21/spyderco-manix-2-s110v-review/

There are conflicting s110v reviews out there. I need to make a few more s110v knives before deciding whether s110v steel is a good fit for my products or not. The 2 s110v knives I made were chippy until I lowered the hardness to 59rc and wear resistant was similar to s30v. Tests were informal, so scrutiny not :p
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That blog is mine. I haven't used the knife all that much since these posts, but if anyone wants more info, just ask and I'll be glad to answer.
 
spketch said:
You should repeat your test at 400 grit and 15dps to more closely approximate Ankerson's testing. I didn't see mention of adding a microbevel, so skip that.

Do this, and we'll have a more valid comparison. Maybe this steel only does exceptionally well with a toothy edge? I'm far from an expert but something seems off here.
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Once I tested crkt ripple on hemprope changing the final grit from 70-120-280-600. The better result was reached at 280. Sharpening- Lansky 40 degrees .
As for this knife. The 3rd test was at 40 degrees finish 25 microns and resulted only 100 cuts. So I don't thing, that rough finish will cause miracle with this knife...:))
 
tolikzt10 said:
Once I tested crkt ripple on hemprope changing the final grit from 70-120-280-600. The better result was reached at 280. Sharpening- Lansky 40 degrees .
As for this knife. The 3rd test was at 40 degrees finish 25 microns and resulted only 100 cuts. So I don't thing, that rough finish will cause miracle with this knife...:))
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For 9Cr CRKT it is normal
 
tolikzt10 said:
Once I tested crkt ripple on hemprope changing the final grit from 70-120-280-600. The better result was reached at 280. Sharpening- Lansky 40 degrees .
As for this knife. The 3rd test was at 40 degrees finish 25 microns and resulted only 100 cuts. So I don't thing, that rough finish will cause miracle with this knife...:))
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But 40 degrees inclusive is too obtuse. In the thread linked to by Ankerson he explained that its all about geometry. A major selling point of these supersteels is that they can be taken to a more acute edge angle while retaining edge stability. Take it to 30 degrees and compare it to a flat ground manix with another steel.

The crkt ripple is a hollow ground 2.5mm thick blade. Its nonsense to directly compare that to the full flat ground 3.2mm blade of the manix.

If you want your results to mean anything you need fewer variables, preferably only one. Otherwise your results are meaningless.
 
spketch said:
A major selling point of these supersteels is that they can be taken to a more acute edge angle while retaining edge stability.
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To be fair, there is a limit to this. For example, I find that I can take low carbide steels (e.g., 1095) to steeper angles than high carbide steels (e.g., D2) while still maintaining edge stability, it's just that the same edge retention isn't there. I wonder if S110V is far enough on the high end of the spectrum that 15 DPS is about the lowest you can go. It sounds like mvh saw this limit as well.

mvh said:
That blog is mine. I haven't used the knife all that much since these posts, but if anyone wants more info, just ask and I'll be glad to answer.
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I saw that performance for you increased with a microbevel - did you ever try reprofiling the primary bevel to that angle and not applying a secondary?
 
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