• Happy Hannukah, Merry Christmas, and Happy New Year to all of you! Thanks for your continued support and I hope that your holiday season is a blessed one.


Lets see . . . What apple, orange, or kiwi fruit can a throw in for comparison to complicate this thread. How about a Spyderco Wegner?

I suspect that any stress that would defeat the handle of a Military or an AFCK would defeat my hand first.

This is not directed at anyone, it is merely the humble opinion of someone who has owned most of the knives in question.
I have had the Stryker(didn't care much for the blade design) I found the edge to be marginal at best even after touch ups.
I currently own the BM975 and love it as it is one hell of a workhorse of a knife.
I have carried an AFCK, while the knife is very nice, I just never felt totally comfortable with the blade design(too thin for my tastes and uses, sharp sucker though.)
I currently carry the new model Military(plain edge of course) and have for almost a year now with "NO" complaints.
My first heartburn with the BM's is the titanium liners. Yes they may be full double liners and all that, but they wear so much faster than the stainless.
I have had the stryker for only 5 months and the liner has worn almost all the way over(No, I do not flick it, I just used it as it was intended) plus I had to keep retouching the edge. So I said bye bye to that thing.
The 975 on the other hand still locks up at the same place and is very stout, but again I am retouching the edge quite often.
Now for the Military. In over a years worth of use I have only touched up the edge "ONCE" I have "NEVER" experienced any flexing or accidental closure with my new or old model and only once have I had to remove any discoloration(only after weeks of use and carry and exposure to sweat and the Korean humidity/polution.) As for the liner, no noticeable wear and 440V is one abrasive metal(titanium would wear away like candle wax on that stuff.
Survey says: The Military is most definately a top of the line production folder and given half a chance can prove itself to the most discriminating of ELU's.
Didn't mean to get so long in the tooth. Just my $0.02.

*Norse Knife Nut*

"Military" Fans Unite!!

"The only limitation is lack of imagination."

[This message has been edited by William Johnson (edited 20 April 1999).]
Wheeeeewwwww...I really hope this is almost over now.
Well...I wanna throw in another coal. I'd love to see a Military with a
3 1/2" - 3 3/4" blade and a rolling lock or Axis lock. Yeah...that would rock!!!
BTW, anyone seen rage? I can't stand it when people drag up the doo-doo then wimp-out of the discussion. Kudos to Jackyl for sticking with his guns.

Thank you CPR. I just hope I didn't contribute to the doo-doo here. I really hope I didn't stir-up any hard feelings either. I wouldn't want people to remember me as the idiot who disagrees with all reason. I'm kinda worried though, as to why I was singled out among the rest. Was I the only tard who decited to throw something different into the mix??? -AR
At the same time...I hope I don't come off as the HARD CORE BM FANATIC either. I love my Spydes too. After all, Spyderco is the reason I took to knives, and they led to my discovery of BM as well as many others in the process. I love my new G10 Rookie, and hope to buy more Spyderco's in the future. As of right now, I only have 5 Spydercos, and have bought many...many of em' for friends and family. -AR
hello again, sorry i havent posted in a while, what i have posted earlier is my opinion and didn't mean to come off so harsh, but everything i mentioned are facts, and also, SAL GLESSER, IF YOU TESTED THE MILITARY, LETS SEE SOME PROOF, WHY CANT YOU SHOW PICS, OR EVEN PUBLISH WHAT THE REAL RESULTS ARE, IS IT CAUSE OF LEGAL REASONS, THEN I WOULD UNDERSTAND. As for BENCHMADE, they don't show the results either, i wish these companies would be truthful, therefore i wouldn't have to test my knives myself. PS, MR. GLESSER, YOU SAY THE MILITARY TESTED AGAINST THE MICROTECH SOCOM, AND WAS STRONGER, HA HA, THE SOCOM'S LINER IS STEEL AND IS WAY THICKER THAN THE MILIRTARY'S, AND IT IS RECESSED IN A 6061 ALUMINUM HANDLE WITH A BEEFY SPLINE SCREW HOLDING IT, THIS IS HARD COATED ALUMINUM WHERE TALKING ABOUT, NOT 6-WEAVE G-10, I ADMIT IT MAY BE STRONGER THAN BENCHMADES 4 WEAVE, BUT NOT ALUMINUM, SORRY PAL, SHOW THE FACTS...................
My AFCK handle DOES flex more than my old style Military. Whodathunkit?

Please understand that the majority of the people on this thread wholeheartedly disagree with you due to their EXPERIENCE with the knives mentioned. I truly believe that you are not trying to come across as a stubborn pain in the (insert expletive here), but your posts seem very defensive in nature. Nobody on this forum has an issue with you personally, so please refrain from inane, meaningless blather unless YOU can supply the facts. Prove to US that aluminum in the SOCOM is stronger than G10. Most forumites will tend to believe a true gentleman who knows his poop about knives (i.e. Sal Glesser) over someone spouting useless drivel without the facts to back it up. Sal has our support in matters of strength. We know that he must test his knives to compete in the market. Know YOUR facts-please! Take a lesson from Jackyl and show some maturity and manners. Guys/gals I apoligize for prolonging this thread, especially when there are more serious matters occuring in Colorado. My heart goes out to all involved.

Thank you CPRaymond. Now this is how I want to be singled out...hehehehe...

It's a real shame what's going on in Denver. I really hope this doesn't become a growing trend. -AR
(no offense to regular forumites)

"The trouble ain't that there is too many fools,
but that the lightning ain't distributed right"
- Mark Twain -

I just realized that my signature hasn't been workin'. I tried to use the ubb code.

Let's try this. -AR

- Intelligent men, unfortunately, learn from fools, more often than fools learn from intelligent men.
;) -AR

Rage, you need to email me immediately as to why you are acting this way on this site.

I'd ask you, and everyone else here, to remember our one and only rule, "<a href="http://www.bladeforums.com/rules.html">"Be nice</a>."

Of late there seems to be a few new people who have either ignored or haven't bothered to follow the guidelines here, so let's all practice some tolerence and show everyone through example how to have discussions on BladeForums.com.


Kevin Jon Schlossberg
SysOp and Administrator for BladeForums.com

Insert witty quip here
Looking back through the posts here, the Military being stronger than the SOCOM has gotten me thinking as well.

Sal, how did the SOCOM fail? Did the liner lock open, or did the spline screw fail? I'm curious for my own knowledge as I have one myself. Would you mind showing us the test data for these and other knives, if at all possible? It'd be nice to know where the breaking points are for some of the more popular brands....


Kevin Jon Schlossberg
SysOp and Administrator for BladeForums.com

Insert witty quip here
Rage - Spyderco will break anything that you want broken. With computer graphs showing the nature of the break. However, at this time, we ar tying to come up with a way of disclosing this information without causing problems.

For example; let say that anything that exceeded 500 inch/lbs of force to "break" a lock would be considered "safe for hard use". 400 - 500 inch /lbs could be "safe for moderate use" etc. (We could use your help here). "Have breaking machine, will break, also we are part of "our" industry.

Spark - regarding the SOCOM, I could provide more info via Email if needed. the SOCOM rated as "safe for hard use". The lock was not the first thing to fail. usually it is not the lock but the pins or the structure. The break was not catastophic. Most "name" knife companies extend a great deal of effort to make their models safe.

As far as a "fighting" knife goes. Here I will be more conservative. Let's say there are two males 200 lbs plus involved in "mortal combat" with knives. One tries to use his folder (AFCK or any other "claimed" "Martial Bladecraft Folder") to "pass" his opponents arm. Two arms locked in trying to force oppossing directions. How much force do you think is generated? 75 lbs per arm = 150 lbs of force. Generated at the tip of a 4" folder equals 600 inch/lbs of force on the lock. That is a lot. Certainly the upper limit of most "very good" locks.

We know the Rolling lock can withstand more than 1,000 inch/lbs of force (if made that way). The Axis might do that, (have not tested one yet).

All in all, I would have to "Question" most so called "folding fighting knives" as being able to comfortably withstand that much force. Even the AFCK.

The Military is not designed to be a "fighter". Just a "tough" buddy. I can assure you that any "fighting" knife that I would design would surely have the strength required to "take care of our ELU". Having a folder close on your hand during a "social situation" would be most embarrassing and probably unhealthy as well.
Good post Sal, and good question Spark. I also thought about the strength of the Microtech due to it's thick lock, same goes for the MOD's.

I think Rage has another agenda and it has nothing to do with the truth.
While rage may be a little short on tact, he does bring up some very important points. Sal you come on this thread and make some very strong, but very vague claims. Now I can fully understand you not wanting to get into a big legal hassle with another company, but if you can't go into details then the value of your information is very low as it can't be duplicated as you must understand.

If it was not Sal but just another member who came on and said "I tested the AFCK against the Military and the Military held up fine while the AFCK broke." But then refused to say exactly what he did or how exactly it "broke", how would he be treated? Assumed to be a troll I would bet.

I would be really, really interested in this kind of information Sal. Would it be possible to simply get an outside engineering firm to duplicate your results? If it was contested, then it is them and not you that comes under the gun.

Why is it that everytime someone starts trouble around here I check there profile and they have a tiny number of posts and a start date that is very close to the one of the post that starts the trouble. It appears to me after looking at rage's profile that he simply became a member to open this whole can of worms! First post on 4/18/99 at close to midnight and a membership date of 4/19/99. The sad thing is that we give these people our time by reading their inflamatory baloney! I remember some instant critics appearing during the Les/Emerson debate (sorry to bring that up again). I'm all for hearing legitimate criticisms around here. But if I've never seen your sign on before I'm going to give your criticism the same value that I give strangers that walk up to me on the street and start spouting off--NONE! The only difference is that people will say things on line that they would never say to someones face because they feel there are fewer repercussions. Pitiful. From now on when I see something like this start I'm going to check someone's profile before I continue to read. There is nothing wrong with new members (I'm a newbie myself) expressing themselves, but rage seems to be using this forum to vent some deeper problem. Why the name rage, rage?

I hope that this doesn't seem like a flame or too angry but jeesh!

Keep Em Sharp

Paul, you are correct, and I noticed the same thing as I hinted to above. The fact that he also started another thread slamming the Trailmaster against the vastly inferior Ontario Survival Bowie, just prooves this point. I doubt that he actually owns either the Military or the Trailmaster. Then he starts a thread that everyone will agree with him on. Just IMHO though.

Rage, who are you? Really?
What is your Agenda? Really?

I'll say no more, Spark.

Sal, If I had to guess which was stronger, the Microtech or the Military, I would have guessed the Micro also, just by looks only, no actuall data on my part. The liner lock(leaf) is much thicker and the blades are the same thickness. Also, the blade rests against the solid handle at the thumb stud, if I'm not mistaken. This gives it a very solid open position. But if you tested it, I would also be most interested in results, just to see how they failed and what it took to make them fail. I was told once that the civilian has the strongest lock in you line up. Is this true?
I would like to say I had the misfortune of owning one of the original style Mil's with ats-34. Made me sad I spent the money buying it. I finally broke down and bought a new style cpm-440v after my buddies kept telling me how much improved it was. They were right.
Much better. Im glad I bought a new one.
I would like to see the tests done on breaking strengths on the various aformentioned folders as well. Remember everyone has an opinion. Those opinions should be respected. That's what makes a free society. The ability to express opinions freely.
Just my $.02