Spyderco Neck Knife

Darrel, here it goes again. 2 months ago it was your turn, now it seems it's Tim Herman's. Actually, it's a little funny about Lynn calling Herman insecure. While Lynn makes nice functional,plain,dimeadozen
knives, he's not in the same league with Tim.
It's not even the same ball game. Tim Herman is an artist. It's also my opinion that he's not in the same league as Kit Carson or Darrell, but that is just my opinion. Lynn is a good maker for the style he does but nothing that wasnt being done 20-30 years ago(except the kydex) by Dozier,Easler,Gaston,etcetc.

It takes years of work over and over to build a lasting rep.

Just my .02

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lifter
Phil. 4:13

Dave
Wharton,NJ


 
Ultimately, Sal will decide whether Spyderco should have a "neck knife" in their SKU's, though I believe he has been pretty unequivocal about being against it. If Sal decides to do it, he is astute enough to figure out what design he wants and who to collaborate with if he so chooses to go that route.

I think strongly pushing any one maker like it's a popularity poll (though I am just as quilty with the Tom Anderson suggestion) for Sal to collaborate with is bound to set up some bad feelings...

Sal did well to stay clear of the latter part of this discussion.

sing

AKTI #A000356
 
Lifter
Tim Is a great knifemaker along with Kit and so many others.
I think Lynn could end up being a good knifemaker if he will just stop and think before his ego and pie hole gets in the way of his ass.
It takes time to develope the style and art that is involved in your being. This is the makeup of a good knifemaker.
Lynn is like other newer knifemakers who dont think paying dues is needed. They want it now.
WELL GUESS WHAT . Everyone pays there dues!
Tim is a living example of this so is Kit and myself.
So I am total happy for Lynn . BUT I feel that dues are in order ! I feel that Lynn has a purpose (in his minds eye) for the knives he makes. These things should be what lynn speaks of. NOTHING else is relevant for a few years.
BUT when I pick up a Polwolsky or a Nealy and
compare them to a griffith THERE IS A GREAT BIG DIFFERENCE! Price dont count here. Only
the comparison of being able to _ after picking it up and a visual _ saying THATS A NEALY or POLWALSKY.
As a seasoned knifemaker I know the polwolsky
and nealy are not just a dime a dozen knives. They are winners.
I hope this makes since and Lynn takes this with a grain of salt. Its just a matter of waiting until your time comes ( in other words.. develpoing a style that has mass appeal and still fits YOUR purpose). Its also a style thing. Its also a matter of paying dues and learning history. ITs also a matter of stop being a parasite on the backs of other knifemakers who payed there dues. Also develope a style that has the Lynn griffith LOOK.
All of these things will come with time.
Be patient and stop pointing the finger and comparing yourself to a project (CRKT) that was in the works before you became a knifemaker.

cool.gif


Done

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Web Site At www.infinet.com/~browzer/bldesmth.html
New Web at www.darrelralph.com

 
Mr. Herman, it seems that you honestly believe that CRKT just naturally evolved into a Warncliffe version of their neck knife offering. Why don’t you just state this instead of insulting another maker and then attempting to ridicule him publicly? Your take on Lynn’s statement has been that he is “lame” and uninformed about the origins of this blade pattern, not that he is mistaken about how CRKT came to use it in a neck knife.

You also site a few examples of the profile being deployed in the past. Were any of these examples of the fairly recent phenomenon of Neck Knives? That is, specifically designed for concealed carry and ease of access, with maximum blade to handle ratio and minimum imprint in mind? Or were they more traditional knife styles? If you can point out an earlier example of an offering that combines the blade pattern with a neck knife, please enlighten me. I am sure one exists, but was it presented along side a factory neck knife that then adapted their offering to the same pattern? I believe that is Lynn’s point, which you have either overlooked or chosen to ignore.

I believe that you saw an opportunity to put a negative spin on another makers ideas and business practices and took it, so interpreted his post as you saw fit. I have noted that you are not above using this forum for the purpose of self-promotion, so perhaps a reassessment is in order on all sides.


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James Segura
San Francisco, CA
 
I believe the Neck Peck is an Ed Halligan design, not a CRKT design. If you have an axe to grind, it would be with Ed. I`ve seen the original Halligan Neck Peck with a candy strip celluloid handle. I think the design grew out of the Halligan Delilah folder, which also sports a Wharncliffe blade. So I don`t agree with Lynn`s assessment of CRKT.

However, it sure does seem like a lot of folks have a problem with Lynn. I`m not sure why; could it have something to do with the fact that he seems to be getting a lot of attention these days? I don`t know. I believe Lynn IS paying his dues (whatever THAT means) and does more research with us ELU`s than any other maker I`m aware of. So he has an ego. So what? That`s not necessarily a bad thing for a craftsman to have. And if he says things that aren`t 100% correct, well, you can`t know everything. At least he`s learning. It`s just plain ugly to see these kinds of petty, personal attacks between makers. Lighten up, guys! It`s not like we`re curing cancer here!


[This message has been edited by Steve B. (edited 01-06-2000).]
 
James, great response. I totally agree with what you just said...

I just sincerely hope that Lynn wasn't fazed after all these bashings...
frown.gif
He was just misunderstood, that's all...

Dan

[This message has been edited by Dannyc (edited 01-06-2000).]
 
I agree stjames. It does seem like some people were quick to jump in with rather scathing comments that, to me, appear to be based on a misunderstanding of the original statement. If you will all notice, Lynn Griffith used the name Wharncliffe in his post. He did not appear to be claiming that he invented this style of blade. I'm noticing a level of animosity not justified by the comment. Give the man some slack.
 
It seems that Lynn opened his "pie-hole" and made a small error of judgement. I'm surprised that several other makers opened their "pie-holes" and quickly tried to insult/embarass him in an open forum, all the while claiming that they meant no insult. If there was no intent to insult, I believe that the tone of their posts would have been quite different.

It seems that Lynn was smart enough to not continue this p*ssing contest in an open forum, choosing instead to take it off-line. It's too bad that several well-respected makers (who have paid their dues
smile.gif
) could not follow his lead. In the eyes of this casual spectator, Lynn may have made himself look foolish, but the other makers made themselves look petty and mean.
 
Man its obvious you guys don't know anything!
Why anybody with half a brain knows Al Gore "invented" the Wharncliff blade. In fact he invented the KNIFE period. Shortly after that he invented fire and we were on our way to modern civilization. It took him a while but then he invented the steam engine making the industrial revolution possible, then the computer and finally the Internet. Can faster than light travel be far behind?

phantom4

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who dares, wins


 
stjames,

yes i do believe that CRKT naturally evolved into a wharncliffe neck knife! if a knife company don't keep up with current trends in whats popular they wouldn't be around long. my and many others complaints with lynn is that he seems to feel he is the trendsetter and blazing all these hot new trends! i am not the only maker to comment to lynn about this ego trip he is on, even the administrators of the forums talked with him about it but he just don't seem to take the clue.

as for examples of "neck knives" the recent phenomenon, i don't see that as relevant at all. did lynn create this recent phenomenon of the neck knife? yes, i think many of the examples i pointed to were designed for concealed carry and ease of access, in fact i think they are more easily accessed than a knife hidden under your shirt! just because the photos were shown side by side or however doesn't mean they copied lynn's idea. if that were the case then any page in the KnivesXX series you could claim the same thing! a page of english bowie blades.....good lord who copied who??

yes i have posted a couple photos in the forums. i feel lots more makers should post pics of new designs but lynn seems to go to the extreme on this. in one thread dr.lathe
asked lynn to email pics of his stag knives in cutting edge. the very next post was lynn's photo into that thread! did he not see the request for email which is private? this is what irks other people on the forums. every little request for any kind of info from lynn and he starts posting pics and prices like this forum is for his own personal catalog. as i said, even the forum administrators have talked to lynn about his blatant advertising to no avail.

i have nothing against lynn as a knifemaker, but i agree with Darrel that he needs think a little before saying some things and develope a griffith "look" before pounding his chest at every oppertunity.

lifter,

nobody said anything about lynn being a bad maker. i have never seen one of his knives in person so i couldn't tell you if he was or wasn't a good maker. it has nothing to do with what "league" he is in. you said it plainly..."lynn is a good maker for the style he does, "but nothing that wasn't being done 20-30 years before.""

tim herman
 
automantic,

i wondered that myself. why don't lynn answer for himself?

i guess stjames and dr.lathe are his spokesmen.

tim
 
Greg
I see you have 16 posts in this forum. You can feel that were mean its great of you to say so. I will take that as you dont like us to give Lynn a hard time. We have worked our ass's off to raise the bar and pay dues in this indusrty . What has Lynn done for this indusrty ? As for petty NOPE I dont think so. Lynn deserves it.
Find his post history all over these forums and you will understand why!
cool.gif


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Web Site At www.infinet.com/~browzer/bldesmth.html
New Web at www.darrelralph.com

 
Darrel Ralph- As a moderator, you ought to know that this forum has rules about personal attacks. Why not take this to private email? Lynn apparently has, and for that I thank him. Unfortunately, you aren`t exactly covering yourself with glory in this thread.

It`s obvious that there is a lot more to your feelings about Lynn than the accuracy of his Wharncliffe remark. It`s a shame that this thread had to turn into a public flogging. I don`t recall Sal ever having to lock a thread here because of it getting out of control. Let`s not make this the first one, okay?

As for Lynn, it makes me wonder why, when he makes a silly post here, it brings folks like Kit Carson and Darrel Ralph out of the woodwork. These guys are world class makers! Why are they so interested in Lynn? It makes me think that Lynn might just be on to something, to attract such a stellar crowd!
 
Steve B.
Coming out of the woodwork? I like that.

When I read Lynn's post I took offense that he would publicly accuse CRKT and Ed Halligan of copying his work. CRKT introduced that knife in Jan 99 at the SHOT Show and had several months involved in the design and manufacture prior to that.

I'm not sure why he calls the steel in that knife (6A) an inferior steel. For the price point, it is a good steel.

I didn't mention that in my post.

I felt he left the impression that HE designed the Warncliffe. He didn't.

Bringing me out of the woodwork. I still like that.

I became an experienced knifemaker by listening to my mentors, and I had some great ones.

To me, a personal attack is when I call a guy or his family dirty names. I don't do that.

Structural criticism is when a more experienced professional tells a less experienced professional that he needs to look at what he is doing and make adjustments. I always do that.


 
Steve B.

You must be an easy mark for folks like Lynn. Some of us arent.

Talking about things he knows nothing about to gather new sales for himself is shameless.

Kit says it all in post above.

Enjoy
cool.gif

BTW : Your point is well taken. You have to admit knowing where you stand with some folks
can be a good thing.

Your statement about being a world class maker was a good one. The only folks who continue to get better at what they do are those who believe that they are only as good as there last project. Thanks for the compliment anyway.
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Web Site At www.infinet.com/~browzer/bldesmth.html
New Web at www.darrelralph.com



[This message has been edited by Darrel Ralph (edited 01-06-2000).]
 
Glad I could brighten your evening, Kit!

What I meant by "coming out of the woodwork" is you and Darrel and HermanKnives NEVER post anything in the Spyderco forum. However, as soon as Lynn makes a silly statement, BOOM!, the gang`s all here! Do you guys have some kind of Lynn Griffith radar, or something? I don`t know, Lynn`s not the only person making questionable statements on these forums, but I don`t see world class knifemakers jumping all over other people the way Lynn`s been jumped on here. And on top of that, you guys are MODERATORS! You oughta know better! We`re guests in Sal`s house here, so we ought to act civil toward one another.

Peace.

[This message has been edited by Steve B. (edited 01-06-2000).]
 
Steve B,
I thought that last post of mine was very civil.

At the present time, Lynn is the only one I'm giving my structural criticism to. The others are much more sensible and understand the term.

Thanks, Sal, for your patience. You've been around the block many years, like me, so I know you understand what is going on.

Coming out of the closet. Still love it.
 
Mr. Herman, rest assured, I speak only for myself. Though Lynn might be guilty of the sin of Self-Promotion, I have never seen him display excessive ego or make any claims to “blazing a trail” for others to follow.

Lynn spends a lot of time trying to find what his potential customers want from his products, and has shared his progress and development on this Forum. He is indeed finding his own style by exploring his strengths and weaknesses, but he is doing it in a much more public element than most knife makers have done so in the past. The Internet is changing the way virtually everyone does business, and the Cutlery Field is no exception to this phenomenon. That he is taking full advantage of the opportunities presented in this medium is one of his strengths, as the feedback he gets, virtually daily, from both Knife Makers and Users will add to his knowledge. Even the negative comments directed at him will add to his advancement, as long as he is able to learn from them.

I would like to thank Steve B. and Mr. Carson for clarifying the history of the PECK. This kind of exchange of information and opinion is why I come to this forum, not to watch Knife Makers insult other members of the forum, squabble with each other, or quit in a fit of pique over the same.

It is now obvious that there was more than one misunderstanding going on here. If the well-versed Makers represented on the forum had taken the time to clarify things in the first place instead of using it as an opportunity to insult and belittle another member of the field all this ugliness would have been avoided.

I think that Greg Melcer’s post went right to the point, be it his sixteenth or sixteen-hundredth. Just what are you trying to gain from these actions, Gentlemen, except to vent some hostility towards someone you apparently don’t approve of? It should be obvious from the recent responses in this thread that you are not enhancing your reputations, and I’m surprised and disappointed in the attitudes that have been presented here by you well known and respected Knife Makers.

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James Segura
San Francisco, CA
 
If I was a little harsh on Mr. Griffith in my last post, then I apologize. The 3 things that had gotten me worked up were :
1-Lynn left the impression that he designed the Wharncliffe
2-everytime someone in just about any forum asks for a suggestion of what knife to buy, it seems Lynn pops in and promotes himself(it gets overdone)
3-This is the main one-in one of his posts to Sal Glesser he says "I know a GREAT maker for you to collaborate with". I've never seen any of the truly great or pioneering makers call themselves great(with maybe the exception of D.E.Henry). Others call them great but they dont use that term referring to themselves.Not even Loveless,Warenski,Lake,etc. and they probably would be justified.

As I stated before, if I was too harsh or direct, then Mr. Griffith, I apologize. As I said before, the knives you make are good for their purpose.

To Sal Glesser-sorry to take up space on your forum and thanks for being here and bringing us all the great Spyderco knives. It was a pleasure to meet you in NY.

To Darrel-it's time to get back to the gym, brother and do some powerlifting(now do you remember our conversation in NY?).

I'm outta here-

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lifter
Phil. 4:13

Dave
Wharton,NJ


 
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