Spyderco, no longer the value it once was...

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Sigguy said:
Sal really needs to run some things by me before he gets that price gun out, or hire a cynical advisor who doesn't wear khaki slacks. :p 279.00 MSRP for the Worker, come on.
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If you're in the US, and you're paying MSRP for a Spyderco, the problem isn't Spyderco - the problem is that you need a better shopping strategy.
 
Pretty sure it was the S110V version. I wasn't paying a lot of attention to it. I was focused on the Native 5.
 
"I don't believe Spyderco is as good of a value as Benchmade. And my anecdote proves it. Nevermind the fact that if you actually look at current line ups and what is on the table, Spyderco blows just about everyone out of the water on value, while Benchmade value is quite lower. Empirical Data is over rated."
 
Usually this whole knife hobby of ours is very subjective. And we've all done the crazy shopping runs where we buy every model we can get our hands on to try out a new gimmick... For me having done that there are very few novelties for me as cool as CRK's precision simplicity, the Emerson wave and Spyderco's philosophy on functionality, design and broad model line up. Somewhere in their model line up is generally a best buy whether new or on the secondary market for a great majority of us knife nutty's because of their philosophy and forethought put into their design process. So I still wholly disagree and dollar for dollar I prefer to put my money towards Spydercos!
 
calc said:
But marketing ≠ advertising.

Marketing drives engineering and production. Marketing delivers the product specs, engineering develops the product design, and production builds the actual product. So let's not downplay marketing as some useless expense - they drive a good portion of the operation. If it weren't for marketing, research would have no direction. And if they spent time trying to find direction, they would have no time to research.
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I think doctors and health statistics should supply direction, rather than accountants and ad gurus.

The U.S. pharmaceutical industry spent 24.4% of the sales dollar in 2004 on promotion, versus 13.4% for research and development, as a percentage of US domestic sales of US$235.4 billion. http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/01/080105140107.htm
 
Lee48 said:
Okay.

But I have not found Spyderco knives to be any more expensive than those made by Benchmade or ZT, the two companies that I consider to make knives of of the same quality as Spyderco. Usually, the selling prices for Benchmade are higher than the selling prices for Spyderco. And ZT costs even more.

You may be confusing Spyderco's expensive "Sprint Run" knives with their standard line. These are limited editions and cost considerably more than the standard line. But you also have to consider Spyderco's "value" line of knives. The Tenacious is probably Spyderco's most popular knife right now and it's available for less than $40 from many retail outlets. Where is the $40 Benchmade or ZT? While the Japanese Spydercos have increased in price due to increased costs involved with the Japanese economy, you can still buy a current classic Delica for less than $60. Again, not much offered in the Benchmade and ZT lines for $60. Furthermore, if you look closely at the Taichung Taiwan produced Spydercos you will find the quality to rival that of custom knives for the price of a higher end production model. It's hard to complain about value when you consider these facts.

Granted the PM2 prices are currently premium. That's due to supply and demand. There just ain't enough of them to satisfy the demand so retailers can tack on that premium to their selling prices. Right now Spyderco is in the midst of an expansion project at its Golden, CO, plant and that's causing delays in production in their USA-made models that is affecting supply.

I guess you can call me a Spyderco fanboy (and I am...along with Benchmade and ZT and several others) but I'm just trying to point out a few facts that might have been overlooked.
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Yes, BUT the Tenacious has gone up greatly (for a budget knife) since it was released, originally going in the mid to high $20s to low $30s. The Resilience has also gone up in price (albeit slightly).
 
I have knives from all three companies. My ZT developed terrible blade play then had lock failure with barely any pressure on the spine, finger-pressure. My three Benchmade knives have side to side play that is irreparable, I have tightened the pivots and the body screws and there is no solution. My spyderco PM2 has vertical and side to side play that, again, is irreparable. I won't buy another ZT again. I sent it back twice and it still has so much vertical play that you can shake the knife and hear the rattle. I am hesitant to buy any more benchmade knives. I own 8 Spydercos and the PM2's minor play issues are the only issues I have ever had with Spyderco.

For those mentioning ~30$ Spydercos made in China vs. ~30$ Kershaws made in the US, you fail to acknowledge that several of Kershaw's models are made in China and cost a similar amount- ex. the new Emerson/Kershaw models come to mind.
 
I'm new here so my input won't matter much. But personally I can't understand the attraction to Spyderco. It's an outsourced American company who utilizes cheap labor and cost cutting, boosting retail pricing while offering cheap mass produced junk. I know I'll take flame for this post but what the hell? lol
Look at their lineup. These knives seem to be tailored to your typical urban wannabe navy seal. Serrated edges, funny looking contours , the only thing missing is spikes for windscreens like you find on a blinged out Suzuki Hayabusa. Plastic frigging scales, holes stamped into blades. Just ridiculous. and people pay 300.00 for a POS like the one pictured below? Belt clips? Really???????? For the alluring factor that screams " Oh my god this belt clip looks awesome? No! I must have a belt clip on a knife that can easily fit in my pocket!

Here's something of interest right off Spyderco's splash page. - quoted.

"We didn't go into business to rake in a mountain of dough we're here for more selfish reasons- indulging our passion for creating knives."

Making knives that consistently deliver reliable high-performance requires an ongoing commitment to testing. In our million-dollar testing facility we examine edge retention with a CATRA machine, look for rust development with Q-FOG, check the force needed to open and close a knife."

Obviously written by an overpaid, hypocritical, 14 year old.

Oh gee, is this the overpriced piece of crap that I get for 300.00? Yes it has nice steel........if it's done right.
What else does it have other than that ...........aside from screaming " I PLAY VIDEO GAMES ALL DAY LONG!"
On top of that it's a folder. Which means there is bound to be some play between the blade and handle. If there's not now, there will be. Just give it time.

I really can't make sense of this. But hey look, I know that people who own them love them. I mean everything is subjective.
What is my cup of tea isn't everyone's cup of tea. I know, and I'm not trying to offend anyone. So you guys cut me some slack when the flame throwers fire up.

C90BL_M.jpg

Are you kidding me? THIS? For 300.00? I guess I just can't wrap my head around this gaudy cheap look on a 300.00 knife that cost someone about 7-10 bucks worth of material to mass produce/manufacture in Taiwan.
 
lol, you are showing a ZDP Stretch that has an amazing steel and can be had for around $100. Sorry, but it doesnt seem like you know what you are talking about.
 
In South Africa the best price I can find on a Tenacious is around R830. That is $78 at todays exchange rate. For R600 ($56) I can get the new CRKT VASP.

Both are made in China. Both have the same blade steel and G10, both are liner locks. The VASP has a longer blade and a nifty top flipper and runs on the IKBS bearing system. And costs 20 dollars less.

In my country Spyderco does not represent good value. Very nice knives but for me they come at a premium.
 
fq55 said:
lol, you are showing a ZDP Stretch that has an amazing steel and can be had for around $100. Sorry, but it doesnt seem like you know what you are talking about.
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Its a discontinued knife according to Spydercos site.
The MSRP certainly isn't 100 bucks. Which of course could easily have been hyped up pre-release ( before it was discontinued) so as to make you think you were getting a bargain at 107.00, It wouldn't surprise me for a company who is not in it to make a " mountain of dough"
Read here from Spyderco's site. Sourced below.

http://www.spyderco.com/catalog/details.php?product=432

PS. I agree, VG10 is a very nice steel. About 10 bucks worth or less..
 
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Thinks that the Stretch is made in Taiwan, you can't expect us to take your words too seriously when you have no clue about what you are trashing.

Thinks that it costs $7-10 to produce a ZDP folder from Japan. :rolleyes:

That version of the Stretch was widely available for $75 to $85 when it was out. The new version which has green scales is still available for under $100. No one pays close to MSRP for these knives. Not even half that MSRP you quoted. Not even a third of it when it was available.
 
Stays Sharp said:
^
Thinks that the Stretch is made in Taiwan, you can't expect us to take your words too seriously when you have no clue about what you are trashing.

Thinks that it costs $7-10 to produce a ZDP folder from Japan. :rolleyes:

That version of the Stretch was widely available for $75 to $85 when it was out. The new version which has green scales is still available for under $100. No one pays close to MSRP for these knives. Not even half that MSRP you quoted. Not even a third of it when it was available.
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Taiwan, Japan? WHo cares? I should have just said Asia. I see the knife for sale at 115.00 now. But then of course Spyderco's very own website is misleading. So I stand corrected on pricing and MSRP sourced from Spydercos site.
No hard feelins. So I guess this is my apology for making you feel bad about your brand.
Here again I can see your point , coming from Japan, tariffs, import fees, customs, shipping all the way from Japan. By the way ALL of that probably cost more than the cost to mass produce this knife.
So , you can expect a reasonable margin of profit to be in there somewhere. But at the end of the day. It's ugly. Be well.
 
You are of course free to have your opinion but your only example, the Stretch, and the arguments against the brand because of it is so misinformed, it cant be taken seriously: You make this argument that people pay $300 for it. Absolutely false. Then you said that it's made in Taiwan... Wrong. Then, you say they utilize cheap labor to produce the knife. Wrong again, it's made in Japan, a country that equals if not surpasses our standard of living even here in the states. Then, you insinuate that it costs $7 to produce... Yeah ok. You can call it a POS, junk, anything you want. But come with facts next time to support your argument. As far as it being ugly/looks, lol it either clicks for you or it doesn't. For me it didn't but it grew on me (their general design style). It doesn't mean that I'm exclusive Spyderco at all, conventional blades are well represented in my collection. Anyhoo, Maybe buy one and USE it for a few months. It might make sense to you a little more.

Like you said... People do buy em, so I suppose that as long as that's true, they'll stay in business and you may have to continue to scratch your head for years to come.
 
Please, if you don't know what you are talking about, make it a point to let everyone know before showing your rear end. Stating things matter of factly, with nothing but blind speculation backing you up does not bode well for healthy discussion. Much better to try and speak from a place of some experience, and do not abandon common sense.
 
I think this thread has run it's course with ignorance, speculation and misinformation. Thread closed.
 
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