Spyderco, no longer the value it once was...

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All I'm saying is that you can find really good Benchmade knives with excellent steel that cost way less (eve with MAP) then some highly priced Spyderco is pumping out these days featuring VG10.

This is almost unthinkable just a few years ago, thus Spyderco is no longer the value proposition brand and have moved up market. It used to be that Spyderco knives ALWAYS cost less then Benchmade and featuring better steel to boot, that's not the case for a good portion of it's line up now.
 
I'm a newer collector, Although I have about 50 case knives and all the Remington bullets, I've recently been introduced to Tac knives as I would call them, in the last month I picked up about 5 spydercos, 1 Byrd, 3 Kershaws, and a Kizer, for the prices I've spent on each different knife I think I like the Kizer the best, I got it used for about 80$ from SheppardCC on here and its the smoothest and my favorite out of all the knives. Granted my spidercos aren't the same type of flipper but I spent 100+ on my Spyderco Sage carbon fiber and I regret it, I think I would have rather not bought 2 of my Spydercos and got a ZT Zero Tolerance 0561 or 0550 to try it out.
 
Cramebame said:
I'm a newer collector, Although I have about 50 case knives and all the Remington bullets, I've recently been introduced to Tac knives as I would call them, in the last month I picked up about 5 spydercos, 1 Byrd, 3 Kershaws, and a Kizer, for the prices I've spent on each different knife I think I like the Kizer the best, I got it used for about 80$ from SheppardCC on here and its the smoothest and my favorite out of all the knives. Granted my spidercos aren't the same type of flipper but I spent 100+ on my Spyderco Sage carbon fiber and I regret it, I think I would have rather not bought 2 of my Spydercos and got a ZT Zero Tolerance 0561 or 0550 to try it out.
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makes sense for you as the sage etc. aren't TAC knives. lots of choices out there like CRK, strider,tsf,lochsa etc....
 
OK, the original premise of this thread is that today's Spyderco is no longer the value it once was...well, I have to say yes and no; by this I mean that current pricing seems to be almost arbitrary when comparing similar knives in the Spydie lineup, and wonder why the drastic difference in price. An excellently street priced knife is the Japan made, VG-10, G10 Dragonfly, with a closed length of about 3.2". Now, at twice the street price, one could get the Japan made, VG-10, G10 Worker, with a closed length of about 3.8". From my perspective, the Worker is priced way out of line, and I really dismiss those arguments that it's a Sprint run, or that it's a limited edition, etc, etc, ad nauseum. If it was a USA made knife, with perhaps a more sophisticated steel (and I'm the last person one would call a steel snob), I would have considered adding it to my collection, but at a street price of $180.00+...no thank you.
 
I read way more than I post but I have an opinion about this.

Spyderco does not have the value it once was due to pricing and marketing games geared at driving up profits.

Take for example "the worker" a G-10, steel frame, VG-10 blade, made in Japan for well over 200.00. Spyderco knows this is an absurd price so they call it a Sprint run, because they know that they could not maintain a solid demand on such an unexceptional knife. Just think about it for minute without getting emotional.

The second point I will bring out is the Para 2. A knife that is desirable by many and Spyderco knows it. This is one of their "bread" knives, a solid performer. Spyderco manipulates the market by limiting supply of the knives, only to offer a sprint run of a Para 2 with a different color of G-10, steel frame, a new steel at a ludicrous price. If Spyderco wanted, they could more than supply distributors with standard Para 2's but instead they follow a very calculating supply strategy to maximize profit.

Some people call this business, I call it greed. Just because you can, doesn't mean you should.

Make no mistake, I am not a person that dislikes Spyderco's, in fact I have several, I just don't like the bit.
 
Sigguy said:
I read way more than I post but I have an opinion about this.

Spyderco does not have the value it once was due to pricing and marketing games geared at driving up profits.

Take for example "the worker" a G-10, steel frame, VG-10 blade, made in Japan for well over 200.00. Spyderco knows this is an absurd price so they call it a Sprint run, because they know that they could not maintain a solid demand on such an unexceptional knife. Just think about it for minute without getting emotional.

The second point I will bring out is the Para 2. A knife that is desirable by many and Spyderco knows it. This is one of their "bread" knives, a solid performer. Spyderco manipulates the market by limiting supply of the knives, only to offer a sprint run of a Para 2 with a different color of G-10, steel frame, a new steel at a ludicrous price. If Spyderco wanted, they could more than supply distributors with standard Para 2's but instead they follow a very calculating supply strategy to maximize profit.

Some people call this business, I call it greed. Just because you can, doesn't mean you should.

Make no mistake, I am not a person that dislikes Spyderco's, in fact I have several, I just don't like the bit.
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I guess the same could be said about we the consumers being greedy. Most of us don't need more than 2 or 3 knives but continue to buy and feed the fire.
 
I believe their current supply & demand strategy with the PM2 is intelligent from a business standpoint but can be misconstrued as greedy from a personal perspective. As a business it's good to keep demand up for your product and not have excessive stock. With most of the sprint runs the dealer prices were reasonable for the steel upgrade but the secondary market prices can be out hand.
 
Please educate me regarding the term MAP. What do these letters stand for with respect to Benchmade knives?
 
Taking another slant on this discussion, just how many Spydies does a person need? Some people buy one knife, perhaps two and use them until they loose them.... years. They won't consider buying another to add to their pile just because of some new blade steel offering or handle etc. The old one cuts and cuts well... so why change.

Take this into account and Spyderco is offering knives with what many consider better steel, handle materal, construction in general and so forth and they're charging for them. These aren't the knives for someone who thinks $20 is a lot of money for a knife. So, they like many companies are catering to the buyer who wants to try something new, not the customer who carried the same Delica or Endura for 10 years and wants a new one because he misplaced it or buggered up the blade doing something he knew he shouldn't with the knife.

So they offer both kinds of customer product that is likely to work for them.
 
tuckerone1 said:
Please educate me regarding the term MAP. What do these letters stand for with respect to Benchmade knives?
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It simply menas Minimum Advertised Price, where a vendor is bound, by contract with the manufacturer, to not advertise a product below a certain price. Some dealers get around this by simply saying to add said item to the cart to see the sale price. Some items have so little profit, and many Spyderco's fall into that category, that dealers either sell at MSRP, or sell at the MAP price just to move a product.
 
22-rimfire said:
Taking another slant on this discussion, just how many Spydies does a person need? Some people buy one knife, perhaps two and use them until they loose them.... years. They won't consider buying another to add to their pile just because of some new blade steel offering or handle etc. The old one cuts and cuts well... so why change.

Take this into account and Spyderco is offering knives with what many consider better steel, handle materal, construction in general and so forth and they're charging for them. These aren't the knives for someone who thinks $20 is a lot of money for a knife. So, they like many companies are catering to the buyer who whants to try something new, not the customer who carried the same Delica or Endura for 10 years and wants a new one because he misplaced it or buggered up the blade doing something he knew he shouldn't with the knife.
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I agree.
 
Sigguy said:
I read way more than I post but I have an opinion about this.

If Spyderco wanted, they could more than supply distributors with standard Para 2's but instead they follow a very calculating supply strategy to maximize profit.

Some people call this business, I call it greed. Just because you can, doesn't mean you should.

Make no mistake, I am not a person that dislikes Spyderco's, in fact I have several, I just don't like the bit.
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Supply and demand manipulation and profit maximization are not "greed". They are fundamental concepts of capitalism and I have absolutely no problem with Spyderco taking full advantage of a hot seller like the PM2. If prices rise higher than the demand will bear, sales will decrease and prices will subsequently decrease.
 
Sigguy said:
I read way more than I post but I have an opinion about this.

Spyderco does not have the value it once was due to pricing and marketing games geared at driving up profits.

Take for example "the worker" a G-10, steel frame, VG-10 blade, made in Japan for well over 200.00. Spyderco knows this is an absurd price so they call it a Sprint run, because they know that they could not maintain a solid demand on such an unexceptional knife. Just think about it for minute without getting emotional.

The second point I will bring out is the Para 2. A knife that is desirable by many and Spyderco knows it. This is one of their "bread" knives, a solid performer. Spyderco manipulates the market by limiting supply of the knives, only to offer a sprint run of a Para 2 with a different color of G-10, steel frame, a new steel at a ludicrous price. If Spyderco wanted, they could more than supply distributors with standard Para 2's but instead they follow a very calculating supply strategy to maximize profit.

Some people call this business, I call it greed. Just because you can, doesn't mean you should.

Make no mistake, I am not a person that dislikes Spyderco's, in fact I have several, I just don't like the bit.
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Sal has commented on this before at one point a few years back. He stated that the Para2 was a model that would sell for less because they were trying a different profit margin strategy. If anything, Spyderco has been extremely transparent through the years and continues to do so. They allow dealers the freedom to price the items accordingly. There are just too many variables unaccounted for in your example to reach a plausible explanation. We do not know the per unit price on the model, the cost of VG10, production schedule of the maker, or other factors that go into the price. A lot of people reduce a complicated thing to "VG10, G10 handles, steel liners and a lock back". That kind of deductive reasoning works for something, not so much for this.
 
OP post is, in my ever so humble opinion, utter and unmitigated BS. Did I mention childish? Myopic? Misguided? All of those too. :rolleyes:
 
Mannlicher said:
OP post is, in my ever so humble opinion, utter and unmitigated BS. Did I mention childish? Myopic? Misguided? All of those too. :rolleyes:
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Now that is uncalled for, I wonder what others will think of your post? Perhaps "childish" comes to mind?
 
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Tasmaniac said:
Supply and demand manipulation and profit maximization are not "greed". They are fundamental concepts of capitalism and I have absolutely no problem with Spyderco taking full advantage of a hot seller like the PM2. If prices rise higher than the demand will bear, sales will decrease and prices will subsequently decrease.
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Respectfully disagree

Greed: intense and selfish desire for something, especially wealth, power, or food.

If you feel that being manipulated for profit maximization is not greed, I feel sorry for you.
 
RevDevil said:
We do not know... the cost of VG10...
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If you watch this video by Ed Schemmp, he was comparing his Rock Salt to Schemmp Rock. Note in the video he says "VG10 is dirty cheap" when compared to H1 steel. And as memory serves, when the Rock Salt (H1) was discontinued, they were selling for around $80 (and I'm sure the dealers were not loosing money on those) where the current Schemmp Rock sells for around $150 or almost twice as much as the same sized and dimensioned H1 Rock Salt that had the costlier steel. Just food for thought.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZNulyy1dn90
 
Neomentat said:
If you watch this video by Ed Schemmp, he was comparing his Rock Salt to Schemmp Rock. Note in the video he says "VG10 is dirty cheap" when compared to H1 steel. And as memory serves, when the Rock Salt (H1) was discontinued, they were selling for around $80 where the current Schemmp Rock sells for around $150 or almost twice as much as the same sized and dimensioned H1 Rock Salt that had the costlier steel. Just food for thought.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZNulyy1dn90
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Thanks for the video, it is interesting. It's no secret that the Japanese foundries are very proud of their products. So much so that makers refuse to use "inferior" imported steel more often than not. Based off what Sal mentioned, some of the added cost to the Terzuola collab and this new Worker is new tooling costs. Each maker operating under different guidelines can make things a bit tough to keep up with, I do not envy that side of the fence at all.
 
Neomentat said:
If you watch this video by Ed Schemmp, he was comparing his Rock Salt to Schemmp Rock. Note in the video he says "VG10 is dirty cheap" when compared to H1 steel. And as memory serves, when the Rock Salt (H1) was discontinued, they were selling for around $80 (and I'm sure the dealers were not loosing money on those) where the current Schemmp Rock sells for around $150 or almost twice as much as the same sized and dimensioned H1 Rock Salt that had the costlier steel. Just food for thought.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZNulyy1dn90
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Poor example. Price on the Rock Salt plummeted when they were discontinued, partially due to Spyderco dropping the MSRP a huge amount, indicating that they certainly dropped the dealer pricing as well. The Rock Salt was significantly more expensive than the Schempp Salt is now until that change.
 
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