Spyderco QC

[Barker]

I have notified the customer service department of Spyderco of the problem with the knives and hope to have a resolution soon. Thanks for your help.

 

[Sal Glesser]

Thanx for your patience and cooperation.

sal

 

[brownshoe]

Mr. Glesser says "Hi Barker, Sorry that you are having a problem, I think that you should just send them back to us for replacement. Far better for your health than getting pissed." If you read this forum you know that sending back a knife for blade play results in being told it's normal. Spyderco has gone on records saying that they won't fix the problem, why should anyone send it in? They'd just be out postage.


Mr. Glesser says "We are having a problem with particular maker on several models. We are also working with them to solve the problem. We've had complaints and we're dealing with it. Production has been stopped until the problem is solved." What does this mean, that spyderco has been wrong and blade play is not normal? Spyderco has been saying its normal for about 2 years now, has the problem gone on that long? What about people who have complained and been told blade play is normal and not a problem? Can they also get their knives fixed like Mr. Barker?

Mr. Glesser says "This particular thread was started with a problem, which could have / should have been solved with a phone call to the office. Sometimes some people complain publicly for other reasons. Then the shoes come out of the closet and complain about every little thing they've heard or seen for the past 20 years. (I have an ex like that)." True it started with a problem, but people with other concerns chimed in based upon the thread title. The blade play difficulty and Spyderco not honoring warranties on "old" knives bought as new is a current problem and not a 20 year old problem. The hardware store two towns over from me still has new in box spydercos that are almost 10 years old. Mr. Glesser you are good at twisting things, maybe your "ex" is the one who is right?

 

[Th232]

Integrity when nobody is watching is honoring the original warranty for the man's Harpy.

Integrity when nobody is watching is committing sufficient capital to your business to stock replacement parts.

Well, how long do you reckon Spyderco should keep parts for discontinued knives? Parts that just sit there mean a) space is taken up, and b) Spyderco's bottom line is lowered. After a certain time period, it's just not smart business.

Mr. Glesser says "We are having a problem with particular maker on several models. We are also working with them to solve the problem. We've had complaints and we're dealing with it. Production has been stopped until the problem is solved." What does this mean, that spyderco has been wrong and blade play is not normal? Spyderco has been saying its normal for about 2 years now, has the problem gone on that long? What about people who have complained and been told blade play is normal and not a problem? Can they also get their knives fixed like Mr. Barker?

I'm not even sure that this comment was directed at blade play.

 

[kgriggs8]

One thing is for sure about Spyderco, they will make it right if you do have a problem. I have only had to send one of my Spydercos back out of about 100. That is not bad. I have owned about 5-6 CRKT knives and I am waiting on my second one that I have had to send back. 1 out of 100 sure beats 2 out of 5.

I am always hesitant to post anything that may be negative because in general, I am a huge fan of Sal and Spydercos. When I post something, it is intended to help Sal make things better. He actually listens to us.

The only real complaint I have is with some of the lockbacks and the play involved. I got a Cara Cara and it was solid. It locks up tighter than my Caly 3 which cost 4 times as much. That kind of sucks.

 

[3Guardsmen]

Thanks for the memories 2guardsgirls.

It is a shame that you apparently don't know who the "Three Guardsmen" were, and what they were all about. Google it and learn something for change, instead of just whining about Spyderco because they don't currently offer a Terzuola model, to send you free of charge, to help you decide what information about them you choose to post, as you've so kindly and publicly propositioned them.

Regards,
3G

 

[The Mastiff]

Brownshoe, knives aren't the only problem in your life are they? Joe

 

[bh49]

Brownshoe, knives aren't the only problem in your life are they? Joe

Joe, thank you.
Roman

 

[bh49]

Mr. Glesser says "Hi Barker, Sorry that you are having a problem, I think that you should just send them back to us for replacement. Far better for your health than getting pissed." If you read this forum you know that sending back a knife for blade play results in being told it's normal. Spyderco has gone on records saying that they won't fix the problem, why should anyone send it in? They'd just be out postage.

Mr. Glesser says "This particular thread was started with a problem, which could have / should have been solved with a phone call to the office. Sometimes some people complain publicly for other reasons. Then the shoes come out of the closet and complain about every little thing they've heard or seen for the past 20 years. (I have an ex like that)." True it started with a problem, but people with other concerns chimed in based upon the thread title. The blade play difficulty and Spyderco not honoring warranties on "old" knives bought as new is a current problem and not a 20 year old problem. The hardware store two towns over from me still has new in box spydercos that are almost 10 years old. Mr. Glesser you are good at twisting things, maybe your "ex" is the one who is right?

Dear Sir,
During a year after I joined this forum I read several of your posts regarding quality of Spyderco knives and Spyderco’s customer service. All of them about the same and now when I see your screen name in Spyderco section of the forum I feel I already know what you will say. I even do not need to read. You already sent your feedback to Spyderco and the president of the company received this information. As far as I understand you are not satisfied customer. I am also not satisfied with Ford cars, so I am not buying them. And this is it. I do not go the day after day to Ford Forums to tell everyone about my experience. I vote with my valet.
So my question to you is “What are you doing here on Spyderco Forum? Are you trying to spread misery of your life to all of us?”
My understanding is, that we are here to talk about our common interests, have a good time and help each other if we can with advice or knowledge. Gentlemen please, correct me if I am wrong.
Dear members of this forum, who were patient enough to read my post, I would like to apologize, if you found this post rude. Sorry I just got annoyed.

 

[Franco G]

I do not find fair to attack brownshoe, although I absolutely understand Sal's points. However, it is true that there is a blade play in some Spyderco knives and that it makes fans very unhappy.
Peter, owner of Fallkniven, was asked about a tiny blade play of U2 folder. Well, the answer was very interesting, one can find it at the F. forum.

Franco

 

[The Mastiff]

I do not find fair to attack brownshoe

Attack him? Hell, I'd ban him if I could. He merely comes here to annoy and bad mouth Spyderco. Over and over again. I really don't understand why this misfit is still allowed here. Joe

 

[zenheretic]

Attack him? Hell, I'd ban him if I could. He merely comes here to annoy and bad mouth Spyderco. Over and over again. I really don't understand why this misfit is still allowed here. Joe

Amen brother Joe!

ZH

Edited to add. There comes a time when person really should just let go of the ancient past. I remember in the Third Grade an older kid clothslined me on the playground. I flipped through the air and landed on my head. It used to upset me as a kid about that little occurence. But I grewup and realized there is more to life than holding a grudge and harboring dark thoughts. One can cultivate negativity or one can learn and move on.

 

[3Guardsmen]

I remember in the Third Grade an older kid clothslined me on the playground. I flipped through the air and landed on my head. It used to upset me as a kid about that little occurence.

Zen,

Didn't you know you were supposed to pester him that kid for a free knife, to help "get the bad taste out of your mouth," and ensure your silence on the matter?

Regards,
3G

P.S. I second that "Amen" to Joe!:thumbup:

 

[3Guardsmen]

Peter, owner of Fallkniven, was asked about a tiny blade play of U2 folder. Well, the answer was very interesting, one can find it at the F. forum.

Franco

Does Peter have a knife-breaking machine? What "level of use" are the Falkniven folders "rated" for? How many inch/lbs. of force are required to snap the U2's lock (and does it have a "Boye dent")? These are very important questions to consider when comparing apples to oranges, my friend.

Regards,
3G

 

[The Mastiff]

Zen,

Didn't you know you were supposed to pester him that kid for a free knife, to help "get the bad taste out of your mouth," and ensure your silence on the matter?

Regards,
3G

3 guardsmen and Zen, I remember him offering Sal that deal. I almost choked. It's I'll annoy you untill you give me an expensive knife. To me, it sounded like attempted extortion.

I also knew that even if Sal did give in, that would merely encourage brownshoe to do it again. Kind of like a rat that gets a free meal. They always come back. Joe

 

[marthinus]

I feel that Sal has taken notice of the QC problem and by the things I have read about Sal he will definatly try to sort out the problem! Spyderco do have a large reputation to keep up as "reliable high performance"! I have NO complaints about Spyderco!

 

[tortoise]

Attack him? Hell, I'd ban him if I could. He merely comes here to annoy and bad mouth Spyderco. Over and over again. I really don't understand why this misfit is still allowed here. Joe

+2. -But that's the Spyderco Forum, it's a very Zen place. A mere hint of dissent gets one banned elsewhere. Here outright hostility is met with serenity. Ordinarily I fall somewhere in the middle on such things.

At work we have a couple of expressions that seem to apply here. May I share?

The first (more politely related) is, The tiger doesn't bother with the flies buzzing around his tail. This is applied when choosing that Zen-like path. It's letting go of ego, it's winning without fighting, of gaining a friend rather than simply defeating an enemy.

The second is, The zebra doesn't piss in the lion's watering hole. Sometimes any challenge must be answered overwhelmingly.

But that's in the real world, not an internet forum.

And besides, Sal seems too enlightened to be the 'salt the fields' kind of guy. -Leave that to we happy few.

 

[Franco G]

3G,
let me say the following:
I own only 3 non-spyderco knives:

1. BM 710 M2HS - because I wanted to have an axis lock AND to have a M2 blade.
2. SOG X-42 mini folder, because I wanted to have a BG-42 blade - CF BG-42 Millie appeared very recently, I don't know how to get a custom Buck 110 with BG-42, and Sebenza is no more BG.
3. Fallkniven U2 - because it has a superb laminated SGPS steel hardened to Rc 62 - according to Cliff Stamp U2 has significantly better edge retention then J. Horn ZDP-189.

All others are ... you know, Goddard, CF BG-42 Millie, Chinook I, Manix, MiniManix, blue ZDP-189 Delica, ZDP Calypso jr., Wegner and Wegner jr., Lil'T, Police, Harpy, etc ...

Does Peter have a knife-breaking machine? What "level of use" are the Falkniven folders "rated" for? How many inch/lbs. of force are required to snap the U2's lock (and does it have a "Boye dent")? These are very important questions to consider when comparing apples to oranges, my friend.

Regards,
3G

3G,
Fallkniven is a respectable european company. Their survival knives, F1 and S1, are chosen for official surv. knives for pilots by US Navy and US Marines.
I don't believe, Fallkniven is breaking U2. Their philosophy is that folders are for cutting only, and fixed blades are for cutting and anything else. Therefore, they break fixed knives at the research institute, quotation from their site:

Testing at LTU 2000
Background
The Division of Solid Mechanics at Lulea University of Technology in
cooperation with Fallkniven AB has produced a testing methodology
to examine the flexural strength of knives. Since the test is to re-create
authentic conditions, no allowances have been made for factors such
as pull speed and pull distance in the test, but the test concentrates
on applied load in the form of tensile load (kN) and bending moment
(Nm). Based on this methodology, testing has been carried out at the
laboratory of The Division of Solid Mechanics.

Link http://www.fallkniven.com/test.htm

Here is a Peter's answer I mentioned in my post:

All folders for sale thru dealers are made at factories. Every factory are dealing with spec's that is - within certain limitations, the knife is acceptable at the price it is given.

This means that a very cheap model will never offer firm and 100 % well made functions. From a very expensive model your demands are higher, of course.

Like all manufacturers, we had the possibility to decide upon the overall quality level for the U2 model and we stated that this folder should work as a EDC, offering a very good blade, a firm, reliable lock and an adjustable lateral play. Regarding the axial play, we decided to allow a little play for being able to keep the low price. This play will never affect the safety and as well will never harm the handling of the folder.

We had the possibility to from the very start state that this folder should be 100 % perfect with regards to ALL specifications but that would have lead to a very high price and, compared to the handle material, it wouldn't match very well.

So, the U2 is a good folder sold at a very attractive price. You cannot find a folder equipped with a laminate powder steel blade at this price, I'm sure.

Saying this, I do not think brownshoe is right about any blade play. Recently, there is a thread at Syderco site forum, where STR nicely discussed this subject. His opinion

Lockbacks many times and from custom or production makers will have slight movement from the first time it is opened up new out of the box. Many lockback makers knives on display at any gun and knife show will have slight movement when opened and examined. I have examined many guild members knives of this type with blade movement and slight movement is not considered by any I've spoken with to be outside of normal or acceptable tolerances. Slight give or upward movement is not a sign of imminent failure with this type of lock regardless of how anyone tries to make it out to be. Irritating is about all it is for most that this bothers as the locks through testing still perform quite admirably. In fact I'll go one further and state that the slight movement when within acceptable tolerance has no noticed affect on how the lock will perform for reliability in a lockback.

Cliff Stamp and Joe Talmege and most importantly Sal, have all noted on several occasions that lockbacks with some give still performed as well or even better than ones that had no give at all. Unlike with other lock types a little movement with a lockback is not really all that much of an issue at all. I have discussed this at great length with many makers and manufacturers over the years. If they felt it was a problem they would not sell it that way. Again some of the recent threads on Q/C seem to want to single out Spyderco in this and believe me its not just Spdyerco with lockback movement. I have custom folders from Ralph Freer, Dick Atkinson, Bob Dozier and others that all have locks that can be felt with ever so slight to immediately noticed movement of the blades when opened and locked. All of these guys belong to the Guild and none of them were rejected due to the way they make knives or because of of them having a bit of movement in it when locked open. I know some have better lock up than others but thats par for the course. For those that feel they want none at all I'd suggest buying only when you can do so hands on. Otherwise its a crap shoot for you.

Frame locks wear ok liner locks the worst. I get a lot of Para Military folders into my shop for low rider clip mods. These are perhaps the most frequently seen Spyderco in my shop of all the models I work on. I can't say why, people feel it rides too high in the pocket that like tip down and people want them tip up carry if its not suited to them from the factory maybe. Not sure.

My point is that I have noted over half of them having vertical blade play when I get them to work on. Most all of these are older used and carried folders by the time I see them. I've noted it on others as well. Lil Temp? I have only seen like two or three of them for clip mods. Can't say I really remember noting any movement but again if I'm swamped things that are small job repairs or mods come in and go out of here many times the same day so it isn't like I have them long. I think the compression has a lot of potential but so far to me its got two things going against it that bother me. One is it seems to catch the meaty fleshy party of my finger when I open and close it. The other is that its had some of the same issues of wear problems (at least in my own mind from what I've seen) that I see in frame and liner locks. Granted I used to think the integral locks of all types walked on water. The truth is they don't and no lock does.

Chris Reeve makes a great knife. His frame lock is in my opinion the best engineered highest tolerance folder of that type on the market. He'd cover it if it did develop blade play and I know this because I know people he has replaced locks for just for that reason. One of these a lock was replaced on was a large Sebbie pass around knife for the blade forums that developed play and excessive travel during the pass around. Bottom line is the Sebbie is a frame lock. If it is used heavy in the field it will eventually suffer the same wear issues associated with these integral locks of titanium. It is possible due to the better fit and finish that it will last longer before suffering this fate but based on my own tests of my own customs and others both custom and production I'd have to say that this lock type is not going to be immune from the effects of heavy usage regardless of the maker.


STR

Above thread is at

http://spyderco.com/forums/showthread.php?p=337221&posted=1#post337221


Franco

 

[3Guardsmen]

Franco,

Thank you very much for the info and the quotes. I apparently jumped the gun, thinking you meant that folders should have no blade play. I was obviously mistaken. As far as Fallknivens go, I love 'em. I've got a black bladed F1 that has become, without a doubt, my favorite fixed blade.

Thanks again,
3G

 

[rifon2]

I feel that Sal has taken notice of the QC problem and by the things I have read about Sal he will definatly try to sort out the problem!

I agree with you here, for sure.
Sal Glesser strikes me as a very smart guy who's extremely proud of his company's products and reputation. And highly forceful and energetic about not only maintaining them, but continually improving them. My sense is that he's probably more irritated and annoyed at any possible QC issues than his customers are. That's if there are QC issues. If there are, I'm confident he will correct them. Quickly.