Spyderco Southard: Excessive Praise and Hype? (Or: Purchase One Now!)

I carry USA knives, mainly CRK and case for classics.

I do have some spyderco's but I'm not impressed with this flipper, and I find it ugly.

G10 lock bar stop? UGLY.
 
Great thread and kudos to the original poster for such an articulate and beneficial entry. Mine arrived today and thought I would chime in. It is interesting how you compared it with the 940 and must say I have the same taste in knives and was in fact comparing the Southard to it upon first unboxing. I love the 940 for its ease of use, great materials, fast deployment, and thin light profile. The Southard is very comparable in that regard. I think it is worth the hype as well due to the footprint (weight and size), awesome blade steel, quick deployment, and good materials. Although the spydie hole is way less practical on this knife, it does give that versatility should one want a change of pace from the flipper. But the filpper rocks and deploys quite well, not supa-fast, but decent. As someone noted above, the user gets a ton of knife in the blade with that big belly yet the shape of the blade makes it much less intimidating than a Strider SMF (cutting edge comparability). The jimpling works well and and so far I have had zero problems with the lockup diengaging.

You did beg for criticisms though so I must indulge :D As someone noted the clip takes away from the richness of the knife with the frame being Ti and all. Would love to see it recessed like that on the sebenza and make it Ti. The lack of lockbar stop kind of worries me in heavy usage as the lockbar itself acts as a stop also unlike the Sebenzas. I am not sure how usage and medium hard usage will affect the lockbar long term. Lastly, would have been cool to have the combined thickness of the G10 and skeletonized ti side match the lockbar ti side equally in thickness as just prefer that symmetry in framelocks.

All things considered, the Southard has so much going for it. I wasn't too keen on the shape until I actually got it in hand and was like "oh yeah, I get it')" A few posts before this one, someone commented on how he couldn't see spending $250 on a Taiwanese made knife. Well I get it if you are a die hard USA made fan (which is cool) but when strickly comparing quality, the Southard could hold its own against any USA made knife. I literally went over every inch with a close up inspection and could not find one flaw or discrepency. I can't say it is as good as quality as a Sebenza but unless one is inspecting tolerances, from the naked eye views, the two are comparable. The thing is flawless, from the beautiful even stonewash finish on the blade to the jimping to the machining on the lockbar. It almost surpasses the sebenza in one way as it is more ergonomic. I am a CRK fan and own a few but always felt the Spydercos were more ergonomic in many cases. This one is no different due to the handle shape.

With so many things going for it, the Southard is a winner IMHO.
 
Yes, it really is that good and IMO a fairly priced knife at $240ish. Southard's design is very functional and very attractive. The materials are very high quality. The quality of the manufacturing is very high, and note that every time someone runs a thread on "where are the best Spyderco knives made?" the overwhelming majority says Taiwan, ahead of Golden. At the end of the day, it is a personal choice, however.
 
This knife looks really great, and i have seen nothing negative about it. It is, IMO, VERY over-priced for a Taiwanese knife. I'm not saying its inferior quality, but if you can buy a ZT 0550 for $165, which is designed by a custom maker, TI framelock, etc. (from a mfg/ business standpoint, essentially the same knife), that is made in the US, then the Southard should be significantly less. This is price gouging on Spydercos part, i think. This knife should be priced around $150.00. With the labor savings of Taiwan, it would still be highly profitable for Spyderco. If you want a Spyderco, buy the Para 2, (great knife). A TI framelock? The ZT 0550. Similar quality, US made, and cheaper! Win-Win!
 
The Logical One said:
Mine arrived today... I really like it, but I don't love it. Smaller flippers are fun to play with and the knife seems like it would be a great hard user for everyday tasks so I'm most likely going to keep it for a while. The zt0561 I had before was actually a LOT smoother, and actually a little more fun to flip but it was just too big for my taste.

If you don't have the funds for it yet, don't rush to get it. It's a nice knife but not so nice you need to have it NOW. I foresee a lot of these going up for sale on the exchange within the next few months.
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It gets smoother and smoother the more you use it. It kept getting smoother for over three weeks. If you otherwise like it hang in there.

michaelsmith said:
This knife looks really great, and i have seen nothing negative about it. It is, IMO, VERY over-priced for a Taiwanese knife. I'm not saying its inferior quality, but if you can buy a ZT 0550 for $165, which is designed by a custom maker, TI framelock, etc. (from a mfg/ business standpoint, essentially the same knife), that is made in the US, then the Southard should be significantly less. This is price gouging on Spydercos part, i think. This knife should be priced around $150.00. With the labor savings of Taiwan, it would still be highly profitable for Spyderco. If you want a Spyderco, buy the Para 2, (great knife). A TI framelock? The ZT 0550. Similar quality, US made, and cheaper! Win-Win!
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They are not made in Taiwan to reduce cost. Taiwan is not China, think of them more like you would Japan, or South Korea. Quoted from Wikipedia, "The 19th-largest economy in the world,[24][25] its advanced technology industry plays a key role in the global economy. Taiwan is ranked highly in terms of freedom of the press, health care,[26] public education, economic freedom, and human development." Not your prototypical China anymore. They are made in Taiwan because Spyderco is currently expanding Golden, but the Taiwan manufacture was ready to produce knives, and can produce a high volume of quality folders fast. Spyderco cannot even keep Golden produced knives in stock. Also, find me a new $165 0550, I see them going for $200, and $225 (I paid $228 for the Southard, more knife, better steel) for the newer black version. The 0560 is a better comparison, and costs $20 more new. The Southard has better steel but is smaller and the 560 has more machining on the Ti, so they are about on par imo. No price gouging imo, compare other Golden knives to other Taiwan knives, and it does not matter where they are made they are about the same price for what you get. Check out Spyderco's subforum, Sal explains exchange rates, and labor costs for different countries, and the truth is a Taiwan made knife is just not a much cheaper way to make knives. You have to ship all the materials to Taiwan, then have them assembled and finished (with labor costs a bit lower than our labor costs), then shipped back. It is about a wash in the end.


To answer about the costs, I would bet that the new price will go down. All Taiwan made knives have had their new price go down. It seems too that the higher the initial price, the more it gets a reduction in price. This is just a trend I have noticed, and would bet it would be another three or four months at least before you see prices going down. The prices do vary quite a bit, I paid $228, while I have seen reputable dealers selling them for $260.
 
I think you would be able to buy them for frond $170 6 months from now so I will hold off until then.
 
Oakengroves said:
(3) What arguments or criticisms exist against the Southard? The knife has received such lop-sided praise that it almost begs suspicion.
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Before I get to criticisms, I'd like to say that if you enjoy and appreciate knives, the Southard is a really well put together knife with nearly flawless fit and finish. This knife is fun. It's a pleasure to use. It is, by far, the best flipper that I've ever owned. It's smooth as silk, and practically flies out of the handle. If you didn't know better you'd think it was an assisted-opening or automatic knife.

The 204P blade steel holds an edge really well. I have no other experience with this steel, but it seems like it's better than CPM S30V with respect to edge retention, and isn't any harder to sharpen.

That said, as a tool, I have found this knife has a few flaws.

1. I think the pocket clip is terrible. Sorry, but that's what I think. It's incredibly sharp, and really stiff, which, combined, means I've found it's shredding my pants and scratching up anything I walk by. This is after I ground down and rounded over the tip of the pocket clip. It's still too sharp. In terms of looks, I think the pocket clip also stands out from the knife and doesn't really fit in; perhaps it should be a matte finish or a different color.

2. The blade itself is relatively thick, but also narrow, and has a somewhat shallow hollow grind. In my use, these three things together means this knife is the perhaps the worst knife I own for slicing. It mangles cardboard and binds up like crazy, and is, IMO, nearly useless. This is somewhat telling in the video reviews for this knife; the only cutting I've seen any video reviewer do is slicing thin slivers of paper...

3. I've also found the Southard isn't great for food prep. Although the blade has a good curve to it, IMO it has a deceptively small amount of actual usable belly when cutting on a flat surface (like a cutting board or desk) because of the geometry of the handle and the flipper. In addition, as with cardboard, the knife just doesn't slice food well.

4. The Southard does cut wood well, and the blade steel allows for a really nice edge. This means you can make some really fine cuts in wood, and create excellent shavings for fire-starting. However, the tip of the blade has a very steep drop-point shape; it's almost a wharncliff or sheepsfoot, and, IMO, not great for detailed wood carving.


So yeah, the Southard is an incredibly fun, well put together knife with absolutely fantastic fit and finish. But, as a tool, IMO I think it leaves a bit to be desired.
 
I agree with it being too thick at the spine, and would love for a Krein or Southard re-grind. I have not found it to not perform and let me down however.

ridnovir said:
I think you would be able to buy them for frond $170 6 months from now so I will hold off until then.
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I doubt that much lower, for instance the Sage 4 when it first came out it was ~$190 and now you can find them for ~$170. I would be surprised if it ever went below $200.
 
FCM415 said:
I've already seen some pretty nice pimp jobs already so far. Full Ti, Black G10, modded lock stop to name a few. Im sure you can make a CF scale happen if you want.
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^^Any pics/links?

I love mine,but would like to change out the G10 with something nicer.

Also,The bearing system isn't super fast like I thought it would be.It may need a break-in period,not sure.The only bearing flipper I had before this was a Todd Begg folder & that thing FLEW open!It may not be fair to compare this to a full blown custom,but my 3.5" XM-18 flipper opens faster than my Southard too.

The blade's a tad on the thick side,but still cuts nicely.I'd a liked it a bit thinner though.

Aside from those minor discrepancies,I think this knife is a heck of a value for what you get.
 
Thought I would share some pics with my other EDC'S comparing it size wise to them. The spydie hole complaints are valid.. although I think making it bigger would be like putting a roof rack on a sportscar.

The interesting thing when I compared the knives is the cutting edge compared to the Military. There is a .227 inch difference, yet the Millie is one inch bigger closed, slightly over 1.5 OAL BIGGER.

The width of the knife makes it much slimmer than the PM2.. and for you guys that wanted a knife that is in between a Large/ small sebbie consider the fact that the Southard fits( snuggly) into a Small Sebbie leather pouch. No way the ZT, PM2 or GB fits in there.. So as much as I hate the clip.. I plan on carrying in my RF pocket.

These pics are what makes this knife unquie to me.. Slim profile, 3.46 cutting edge, OAL 7.96", 4.5"closed, flipper, great steel, World class fit and finish..

Please enjoy the comparision pics:)

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Gayle Bradley below:

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ZT0550

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Deep carry shot group.. minus that lousy clip..

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Excellent collection, photos and comparo thank you a ton. A great way to help window shoppers make a purchasing decision. ZT 561 for me now but they all look the business. :)
 
I would like to know more about this steel. I haven't really used my southard, as it's in my tactical knife rotation, instead of the edc rotation, so my edc still gets all of the cutting done.

I would have to think it's a premium steel given the price point, and quality of this knife. Also, Microtech uses it.
 
To answer the question- I just got a ZT 0561 so I'm not interested in the Southard.


NeverMore1701 said:
I'm very glad my only other Spyderco is hole-less. Again, I'm not saying it's a bad design, it just doesn't agree with me from a strictly aesthetic standpoint (and my stubby little thumbs don't agree with any type of opening mechanism that relies on them, with the exception being one model with angled, serrated studs and spring assist).
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I have one of those knives with the angled serrated thumb studs and it is one of my most positive opening knives. IOW it opens with a low amount of fumbling around. But my most positive opening knife is my Para 2. Trying to open it quickly or if you didn't get a good grip on it and it always opens, never misses. Thumb studs and flippers you have to position your finger just right and if you are in a hurry you can miss the thumb stud and have to try again. With the angled thumb stud knife I don't miss often.

Spyderco has always said that their knives are designed for function over aesthetics. I've always bought knives based on aesthetics but I want them to function too, and after carrying the Para 2 I've learned that beauty is as beauty does and those knives take on a beauty all of their own.


I would like to know more about this steel. I would have to think it's a premium steel given the price point, and quality of this knife. Also, Microtech uses it.
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It is a premium steel, supposed to be one of the best for edge holding and corrosion resistance. Spyderco is still supposed to bring out a sprint run of the Paramilitary 2 using this steel as well as one of their mule team series. The Southard happened to be their first with this steel.
 
YardbirdUSA said:
For what its worth I found this quote on the web RE CTS204P steel:

"I have not used it but from it's elemental make up it would hold and edge longer than S35VN and not be as tough.

Seems like it would be good for smaller knives that would not be used hard or for kitchen knives that would also not be side stressed.

It is an exact Copy of Crucible 20CV.

It's edge holding should equal that of M-4 but it is also less tough than M-4.

It would have limited application in Sporting knives and no application in fighting or military knives and no real application in Bushcraft knives due to it's lack of toughness.


It also seems to make little sense for Carpenter to copy a steel that was designed and engineered by another American Company (Crucible)

Just my humble opinion."
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FWIW/IMHO, "...no application in fighting..." is BS-- and that doesn't stand for Brad Southard.
You could use a properly sharpened $5 throwaway blade in a theoretical scuffle with basic understanding of application. Tell me why somebody couldn't. Actually, don't cause I don't want to hijack this thread into something that should be in PracTac. Yeah, I wouldn't expect a "throwaway" to last very long, but there's a lot you can do in a given situation, if necessary, without a tactical monster fighting made for war tool. As far as the Southard goes in reference to fighting potential, the flipper alone makes this a consideration for situations where quick blade deployment is high on the priority list. Maybe it's not faster than a waved blade from pocket (as is w/o zip-tie wave mod), but you can expect as fast or faster indexing and deployment when already in hand. The handle feels real nice in icepick grip too.
 
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Watch this video here. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i5OuM0s3owE

I believe he goes by CrimsonTideShooter here on the forums and I think this is the best review of this knife, from a very knowledgeable source. Too many people, who don't even own the knife saying they don't like one feature, or don't like Taiwan or some BS is NOT something to base a purchase on.
 
I'm not going to read through all these replies, so if what I am about to say has been mentioned, forgive me. I think it is a passing knife. It is a nice one I'm sure, but I don't see it beeing a staple knife that's around for years.The Sebenza, The Millie, Sng, Griptilian, 710, and others are knives to me worth the hype. While each of them may not be for everyone, they have been around, and are go to knives for tons of people. The Southard and 56x series, while nice, are a passing thing I think. I just don't see people 5 years from now still rushing to get it and drooling over the forums about it.
 
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