Spyderco Southard: Excessive Praise and Hype? (Or: Purchase One Now!)

[FCM415]

I'm not going to read through all these replies, so if what I am about to say has been mentioned, forgive me. I think it is a passing knife. It is a nice one I'm sure, but I don't see it beeing a staple knife that's around for years.The Sebenza, The Millie, Sng, Griptilian, 710, and others are knives to me worth the hype. While each of them may not be for everyone, they have been around, and are go to knives for tons of people. The Southard and 56x series, while nice, are a passing thing I think. I just don't see people 5 years from now still rushing to get it and drooling over the forums about it.

Who knows. Its a Spyderco licensed Southard style flipper. I actually think this starts a trend of near custom quality production knives. There will be future flippersfrom Spyderco also.

 

[michaelsmith]

It gets smoother and smoother the more you use it. It kept getting smoother for over three weeks. If you otherwise like it hang in there.



They are not made in Taiwan to reduce cost. Taiwan is not China, think of them more like you would Japan, or South Korea. Quoted from Wikipedia, "The 19th-largest economy in the world,[24][25] its advanced technology industry plays a key role in the global economy. Taiwan is ranked highly in terms of freedom of the press, health care,[26] public education, economic freedom, and human development." Not your prototypical China anymore. They are made in Taiwan because Spyderco is currently expanding Golden, but the Taiwan manufacture was ready to produce knives, and can produce a high volume of quality folders fast. Spyderco cannot even keep Golden produced knives in stock. Also, find me a new $165 0550, I see them going for $200, and $225 (I paid $228 for the Southard, more knife, better steel) for the newer black version. The 0560 is a better comparison, and costs $20 more new. The Southard has better steel but is smaller and the 560 has more machining on the Ti, so they are about on par imo. No price gouging imo, compare other Golden knives to other Taiwan knives, and it does not matter where they are made they are about the same price for what you get. Check out Spyderco's subforum, Sal explains exchange rates, and labor costs for different countries, and the truth is a Taiwan made knife is just not a much cheaper way to make knives. You have to ship all the materials to Taiwan, then have them assembled and finished (with labor costs a bit lower than our labor costs), then shipped back. It is about a wash in the end.


To answer about the costs, I would bet that the new price will go down. All Taiwan made knives have had their new price go down. It seems too that the higher the initial price, the more it gets a reduction in price. This is just a trend I have noticed, and would bet it would be another three or four months at least before you see prices going down. The prices do vary quite a bit, I paid $228, while I have seen reputable dealers selling them for $260.

The 560 has a more expensive bearing system, and significant 3d milling which is not present on the southard. also, the 560 is much larger. pics in this thread put the 550 & the BS flipper side by side, and they are very similar from a mfg standpoint. Yeah, Taiwan is cool, but you cannot deny a significant labor savings. I've heard what Sal has said about exchange rates, etc., and i also know something about overseas mfg. taiwan is chaeper, period. Thats ok, btw, i just think the savings should be reflected in the price. I bought my 2nd gen 550 for $165.00, shipped. 301 for $205.00. deals are out there. The BS is a good knife, but same quality US made knives are out there for less, just sayin'.

 

[mkjellgren]

The 560 has a more expensive bearing system, and significant 3d milling which is not present on the southard. also, the 560 is much larger. pics in this thread put the 550 & the BS flipper side by side, and they are very similar from a mfg standpoint. Yeah, Taiwan is cool, but you cannot deny a significant labor savings. I've heard what Sal has said about exchange rates, etc., and i also know something about overseas mfg. taiwan is chaeper, period. Thats ok, btw, i just think the savings should be reflected in the price. I bought my 2nd gen 550 for $165.00, shipped. 301 for $205.00. deals are out there. The BS is a good knife, but same quality US made knives are out there for less, just sayin'.

Why would you say the zt has a more expensive bearing system? They are almost identical, both are sets of ball bearings captured in nylon washers, they are literally exactly the same. The only difference is the Zt's washers are blue and the southards washers are gray...

Something tells me you have never handled either the 0560 or the Southard let alone took both apart. Well, I have, and there is almost zero difference between them. Actually, the only difference is that the Southard has thin steel washers between the bearings and the ti scale and liner preventing premature wear on the ti. In that case, I give the advantage to the Spyderco.

The 0550 is not a flipper, nor does it have a bearing system, so it really isn't fair to compare the two.

In terms of pricing and Taiwan manufacturing, you guys sound incredibly ignorant when you insinuate that nothing expensive can come from anywhere but the US. Take a look at where your $500+ smart phone was made... That's right.... It was made in China...

If the Southard were made in the US it would likely cost close to $400, and that is apparent immediately when you handle one. So in that respect, you are in fact seeing a significant price decrease due to the Taiwan manufacturing. Would I love to see the Southard made in the USA? Absolutely I would. But the fact that it is made in Taichung means the quality and fit and finish is absolutely world class and I was still able to get mine for $224, and I'm very okay with that.

It's getting painfully obvious that all the haters are either die hard patriots who just can't stand that a foreign made knife is getting so much praise, or are folks who simply haven't handled one for themselves.

 

[Inkbender]

It's getting painfully obvious that all the haters are either die hard patriots who just can't stand that a foreign made knife is getting so much praise, or are folks who simply haven't handled one for themselves.

Pretty much... and on that note, aren't we talking USA steel and materials assembled/fitted in Taiwan?

 

[FCM415]

They are both great knives, why do some people feel like they need to defend the 560 on a Southard thread, are you that insecure about a knife? Owners of the Southard or both have shared why they prefer one over the other, but it seems there is a bit of insecurities from a few who prefer the 560 over the Southard. It is strictly a matter of preference, and if you prefer it over the Southard just say so, no need to overly criticize the other. For the record, both companies make knives in the US as well as abroad. Isnt ZT's parent company Japanese (Im not sure)? Im all into the US pride thing and most of my knives are US made but I wouldnt be surprised if those who want to rub it in that the Southard is made in Taiwan is saying so through a chinese made computer. If your American made 560 is so American why does it have Bohler Udelholm steel? Spyderco cant even catch up to demand on their US made knives as their Colorado factory is at full capacity, until that changes it is very difficult for Spyderco to pump out new new models made here. I can name more than a few models and projects that are backlogged from Colorado. Live and let live, good riddance!

 

[mkjellgren]

Pretty much... and on that note, aren't we talking USA steel and materials assembled/fitted in Taiwan?

Yup, an American company (spyderco), using USA produced materials (cts-204p) being assembled in Taiwan (southard),
vs a Japanese company (KAI), using foreign steel (elmax), being assembled in the US.

 

[FCM415]

That significant milling system not present on the Southard is also not present in plenty of stonewashed Ti knives that I like. It would look too buisy on the Southard and for its slim profile does not need any more grip than the textured G10 it has. Why does the 560cbcf have milder texturing compared to the 560 if it is so celebrated in 560 circles?

 

[hardheart]

I actually think this starts a trend of near custom quality production knives.

You are many decades too late in identifying the start. Moki, Klotzli, William Henry, CRK, etc. And that is also with some sort of fanciful custom knife quality standard, there are some pretty lousy ones out there.

Taiwan production is cheaper than US, I think Sal said about 70 cents on the dollar.

 

[tomsch]

From my perspective the Southard is amazing no matter where it is made. As mentioned above the only area that is not up to the quality level is the clip. I'm going to grind off the sharp end and try to match the finish. Maybe the better solution is to have one of the customer makers on the forum (STR) make a Ti clip that matches the finish as well as the quality.

 

[FCM415]

You are many decades too late in identifying the start. Moki, Klotzli, William Henry, CRK, etc. And that is also with some sort of fanciful custom knife quality standard, there are some pretty lousy ones out there.

Taiwan production is cheaper than US, I think Sal said about 70 cents on the dollar.

So are we looking at the Southard as a midtech? Im just saying that I assume there will be more knives like the Southard and 560 in the future in reply to someone who feels that it is just a passing trend which it still may be who knows. Wasnt really out to identify the start of anything. You know, modern folders with higher end features more commonly seen from today's customs and midtechs

 

[l8apex]

From the aspect of ingenuity, the Southard has a lot to offer. We are blessed to live in an era with so many talented knife makers and choices. It's a good buy period. If you don't like it, you can surely sell it off here and someone will pick it up. In the end you will have to like it's balance, feel, cutting ability - which in most cases is subjective to the user. Enjoy it in health.

 

[Sonnydaze]

I think that this one is Spyderco's best knife offering since the PM2. Not better; just different.

 

[JTR357]

I'll tell you one thing,since I got this flipper.It makes me want a Brad Southard original.The ergos are thru the roof in any grip.The blade shape/style may not be all thst attractive but it works very well for an EDC application.

 

[bobnery]

So are we looking at the Southard as a midtech? Im just saying that I assume there will be more knives like the Southard and 560 in the future in reply to someone who feels that it is just a passing trend which it still may be who knows. Wasnt really out to identify the start of anything. You know, modern folders with higher end features more commonly seen from today's customs and midtechs

I think the idea of keeping it simple will always win the day. Things like bearing systems are at heart things that are "cool" and not needed for knife function. I like opening knives over and over just like many guys on here. I know though at heart it is a cutting tool and not an opening tool. Knife enthusiasts (me included) often times get hung up on non essentials, at the end of the day all you need is a sharp edge. The rest is all fluff.

 

[Rick]

I think the Southard is very fairly priced and its workmanship is beyond reproach, but there's no reason for its excessive bulk unless you find prybars more useful than cutting tools. Knives with practical blade stock thickness like an Opinel or GEC lockback, etc., have easily outperformed the Southard in every cutting comparison I've attempted so far.

This ridiculous bulk-for-bulk's-sake marketing trend is seriously compromising the cutting performance of far too many otherwise decent modern knives. IMO, the Southard would be just about perfect as a real world hard use EDC if the entire knife was half the thickness. As it is, it's needlessly fat and heavy in the pocket, and the slab-like blade creates way too much cutting drag.

I can highly recommend it if you're looking for a fun, beautifully made flipper to admire and play around with while watching TV, but if you're looking for a serious no nonsense cutting tool, I'd go with one of Spyderco's less bulky offerings.

 

[JNewell]

The 560 has a more expensive bearing system, and significant 3d milling which is not present on the southard.

I'd be interested in comparative pics?

 

[knifehunt]

The 560 has a more expensive bearing system, and significant 3d milling which is not present on the southard. also, the 560 is much larger. pics in this thread put the 550 & the BS flipper side by side, and they are very similar from a mfg standpoint. Yeah, Taiwan is cool, but you cannot deny a significant labor savings. I've heard what Sal has said about exchange rates, etc., and i also know something about overseas mfg. taiwan is chaeper, period. Thats ok, btw, i just think the savings should be reflected in the price. I bought my 2nd gen 550 for $165.00, shipped. 301 for $205.00. deals are out there. The BS is a good knife, but same quality US made knives are out there for less, just sayin'.

Please do your homework next time!

 

[JTR357]

I think the Southard is very fairly priced and its workmanship is beyond reproach, but there's no reason for its excessive bulk unless you find prybars more useful than cutting tools. Knives with practical blade stock thickness like an Opinel or GEC lockback, etc., have easily outperformed the Southard in every cutting comparison I've attempted so far.

This ridiculous bulk-for-bulk's-sake marketing trend is seriously compromising the cutting performance of far too many otherwise decent modern knives. IMO, the Southard would be just about perfect as a real world hard use EDC if the entire knife was half the thickness. As it is, it's needlessly fat and heavy in the pocket, and the slab-like blade creates way too much cutting drag.

I can highly recommend it if you're looking for a fun, beautifully made flipper to admire and play around with while watching TV, but if you're looking for a serious no nonsense cutting tool, I'd go with one of Spyderco's less bulky offerings.

There is much truth in this this post!:thumbup:

 

[FCM415]

I think the idea of keeping it simple will always win the day. Things like bearing systems are at heart things that are "cool" and not needed for knife function. I like opening knives over and over just like many guys on here. I know though at heart it is a cutting tool and not an opening tool. Knife enthusiasts (me included) often times get hung up on non essentials, at the end of the day all you need is a sharp edge. The rest is all fluff.

I respect that point of view and plenty true. But I dont brush off every innovation, improvements and advancements in the industry as gimmicks without trying it first. Im more into modern folders than old timey slipjoints as of now.

 

[FCM415]

There is much truth in this this post!:thumbup:

I would not consider the Southard bulky in any stretch of the imagination. Am I alone in this? Its the same size as my FRN Spyderco Stretch roughly... I dont know...