spyderco vg10 vs cold steel aus 8

I am skeptical about the idea that there is no difference in the "potential" edge holding of a steel with about .7% carbon and 1% carbon. The former (1060, 1070) are used by sword makers because these steels can be made very tough. A steel like 1095 is close in carbon content to 440C and VG10. I don't think that there is a huge difference between VG10 and 154CM, but that is based on my own personal experience.
I haven't used my knives in AUS8A enough to provide a proper personal comparison, but I have used VG10 quite a bit. Unless I were just interested in a tough blade, I would rather have a knife in VG10 than a lower carbon steel.
For those who are familiar with statistical talk, you cannot prove the null hypothesis. A failure to see a difference between VG10 and AUS8A in one type of cutting test does not mean that they have comparable edge holding, especially in other types of cutting. If I wanted a blade to chop stuff, I'd rather have a steel like 5160 or 1060. I have a Spyderco kitchen knife that holds an edge forever. It is a Yang in VG10, and it is probably the blade geometry that is responsible for 3X the edge retention of some other kitchen knives I have in 440C.
 
I don't know what the potential or optimal heat treat would be between the two I just know the production knives I own hold and edge about the same.
 
And what is your comparison for edge holding?

Have you tested at several edge angles and finishes?
Are the blade heights and grinds the same?
Is the thickness directly behind the edge the same?

If no to any of the above 3 then your comparison of two steels is not giving you any reliably data on which to form a opinion.
 
thats the point I'm trying to make I dont need a test for my personal use because the edge retention is so similar using the knives at my work and at home that when people say vg-10 is good but aus8 sucks I don't get it do all of those people have test have you done a test? Thats my opinion and opinions are like aholes everyone has one. I know some people have done tests and the test showed that they perform very similar.
 
That's not the point, slight changes in blade styles, grinds, and sharpenings have HUGE effects on performance. Very easy to be mislead by your own knife.
 
knifenut1013 said:
That's not the point, slight changes in blade styles, grinds, and sharpenings have HUGE effects on performance. .
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That's why I pointed out a number of times that they are very close in performance and that blade and edge geometry, edge finish etc can and will change things production knives being what they are.

With steels this close in alloy content as these two steels really are it really can go either way depending.

I could change the edge geometry on the knives and make one out perform the other, and change it again and reverse it and do it again with edge finishes and it could do it over and over again all day long if I wanted to and if I wanted to put out bad data and or had some type of agenda. I don't so I tested the blades with the same edge geometry and edge finish and the results ended up as it did things being as equal as I could make them given the knives tested.

I really have no skin in this game really, but if I did happen to let my own personal bias control what I wanted the outcome to be it would have been in favor of Spyderco and VG-10. That being said I test only for the results as I am only really interested in the steels themselves when I test and I really don't care how it turns out one way or the other. My only real interest is putting out good data, unbiased as I can make it keeping things as equal and as fair as I can make them so the results fall where they do.

It's not like we are comparing VG-10 to S30V here, two steels with a rather large difference in alloy content.
 
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arty said:
I am skeptical about the idea that there is no difference in the "potential" edge holding of a steel with about .7% carbon and 1% carbon. The former (1060, 1070) are used by sword makers because these steels can be made very tough. A steel like 1095 is close in carbon content to 440C and VG10. I don't think that there is a huge difference between VG10 and 154CM, but that is based on my own personal experience.
I haven't used my knives in AUS8A enough to provide a proper personal comparison, but I have used VG10 quite a bit. Unless I were just interested in a tough blade, I would rather have a knife in VG10 than a lower carbon steel.
For those who are familiar with statistical talk, you cannot prove the null hypothesis. A failure to see a difference between VG10 and AUS8A in one type of cutting test does not mean that they have comparable edge holding, especially in other types of cutting. If I wanted a blade to chop stuff, I'd rather have a steel like 5160 or 1060. I have a Spyderco kitchen knife that holds an edge forever. It is a Yang in VG10, and it is probably the blade geometry that is responsible for 3X the edge retention of some other kitchen knives I have in 440C.
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Those carbon steels that you mentioned are very low alloy simple carbon steels that develop very small amounts of carbides if any percentage wise in HT.

Edge retention in those type of steels have more to do with RC hardness as in the harder they are the higher the edge retention will be because there really aren't any carbides that will effect edge retention by a noticeable amount.

The other stainless steels that you mentioned all have a much higher alloy content than the simple carbon steels and do develop a percentage of carbides for wear resistance.

So looking at carbon content alone when comparing the steels mentioned really doesn't make any since at all.....

There is a rather large difference in alloy content between VG-10 and 154CM, that's carbide forming alloys in favor of 154CM and a HUGE difference between them and the simple carbon steels listed.


Going a little deeper into it there are stainless steels that have 3 to 4 times the percentage of carbon than the simple carbon steels do, but the carbon content a lone doesn't tell the whole picture, it's the other alloys that make a complete picture. The higher the carbon content in the high alloy steels the higher the percentage of the other carbide forming alloys can be pulled into the carbide matrix.

We aren't talking about making truck springs or lawnmower blades, building structure beams......

Yeah those carbon steels are spring steels and with a spring temper they do what they are supposed to do, that is flex like a spring and that would make since given what they are.
 
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In the end, it is steel. some steels are made for hardness, and others for toughness. Some are a blend. But generally speaking when you go long one way, you come up short the other way. That and the geometry of the blade, as well as the HT.

Done right (and the companies that CS contract out to have been doing it right) I have no problem with AUS8a in an EDC/Utility folder. It is fairly strong so it can be a bit more forgiving when you are being dumb with it, and it maintains a decent edge. Also I find it super easy to sharpen.
 
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