"Squatchers"

[Codger_64]

But then neither has it been proven to be real by imperical scientific evidence. Therein lies the problem. Jeff tried with his analysis in 1998, but estimated the creature weighed 1,957 pounds. That is the weight range of a clydesdale horse.

As to the cinimatic suit and makeup expertise of the time, Planet Of The Apes was in production in 1967.

 

[coyotebc]

What makes people think that the Patterson film is genuine is the detail in the movements of the body, the detail of the musculature, the relative proportions of the arms, legs, torso, etc, the way that it moves when it turns, and probably a dozen other things. Biologists, anatomy experts, film experts, human motion experts, animal motion experts, and a host of other experts have examined the Patterson film, and one reason that the story survives is that many experts were impressed. If those two guys did manage fake that in 1967, it was nothing short of astonishing and it still hasn't been proven to be a fake.

And there are other experts that are less then impressed with the suit.
If you are really interested in the film visit the bigfoot forums and check out some of the threads on it.
As I have said I have seen a dvdhigh resolution copy of a first generationcopy and I do not agree with people that thinks it looks real.

 

[coyotebc]

It is virtually impossible to disprove any crypto or belief a person holds.
I believe that the absence of evidence is evidence of absence.
Of course the problem lies with our different opinion on what we accept as evidence

But then neither has it been proven to be real by imperical scientific evidence. Therein lies the problem. Jeff tried with his analysis in 1998, but estimated the creature weighed 1,957 pounds. That is the weight range of a clydesdale horse.

As to the cinimatic suit and makeup expertise of the time, Planet Of The Apes was in production in 1967.

 

[coyotebc]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Wb0XZl-3Bo
video of gorilla walking bipedally

 

[Erasmus]

Until the level of evidence improves, we're not gonna collectively arrive at any satisfying conclusions.

If we never improve the evidence, then that's a slight contraindication for existence. Yeah, that, or we're incompetent amateur investigators

I wish some of our law enforcement people would comment on the value of the seemingly sketchy physical evidence/eye witness testimony surrounding this issue. Cops interview witnesses every day and so are in a position to make a more informed(?) comment on this subject of people claiming "bigfoot" sightings. In the absence of anything definite, I'd even like to hear their gut-level guesses on the veracity of all this.

 

[Codger_64]

It is virtually impossible to disprove any crypto or belief a person holds.
I believe that the absence of evidence is evidence of absence.
Of course the problem lies with our different opinion on what we accept as evidence

Generally speaking, proof will come when evidence is shown that has passed the rigors of the scientific methodology. No evidence has done so to date. And, sadly, most evidence gathered by enthusiasts has not been scrupulously accounted for in a chain of custody, such as that required for forensic crime evidence. The critter is supposed to be a physical, mortal animal. It should have mortal remains somewhere. It should be subject to the same forces of nature and mishaps that bison, bears and humans are, i.e. fall into a river, fall from a cliff, be hit by a car, shot by a hunter, die from accident or disease, hunger or thirst. If indeed they live, they also die. Mammals leave behind bones and teeth like the extinct giant ape of Asia, mastadons and mammoths, dire wolves and sabretooth tigers.

 

[heresthedeal]

since this thread started I've been watching the multitude of bigfoot shows on TV.
the one thing they all seem to have in common is, everything that happens in the woods at night is a bigfoot.
they hear a hickory nut fall out of a tree and smack a dead log, that's a bigfoot.
something splashes into the water, that's a bigfoot.
there's scratches on a tree, that's a bigfoot.
there's unidentified tracks in the woods, that's a bigfoot
. something crashes through the woods at night, that's a bigfoot.
almost forgot the most important one, something howls in the distance, that's a bigfoot, because nothing else does that.
had to add, these people are not hunters, all they seem to do is walk around and talk to each other. either bigfoots are deaf or they are just doing this for TV.

as far as eye witness testimony, it sucks. I've seen 5 or 6 people see the same thing and everybody describes something different.
height, weight, hair color, clothes.
unless somebody knows what they are looking for you can just take as much information as you can and try to match up the descriptions between the witnesses.
if someone sees something they can't quite identify, their brain fills in the blanks from information in their head. if they believe in bigfoots, they may just see a bigfoot.
no I'm not a cop, i have worked in the security field for over 20 years. I'm not a bigfoot believer but i have seen a bunch of odd stuff in the woods, just no bigfoots.

 

[jill jackson]

Those people on "Finding Bigfoot" go out at night because bigfoot, is said to be mostly nocturnal. It's also creepier to be out at night and adds a degree of spookiness to the entire affair. I don't think they will, ever prove anything that way. But, they do travel to places with reports of bigfoot. Last night they were in Northern Minnesota and when they asked a town hall, meeting room full of folks, how many had seen bigfoot, 80% raised their hands. There was some eyewitnesses stories told, a young girl, a man and his wife, and a older lady. They all described seeing the same type thing. Then the BF team, went about in the woods, (in night and day) found very little if anything. Of course at the end they was disappointed, that they didn't find bigfoot!

All I can say, is I grew up hearing stories of a "thing" that roamed the area I live in for decades. (I looked in old newspapers, it was front page news many times) I used to laugh and make fun of them. Then, I heard more stories. Stories that were present day and the people seeing something, did not run to the newspapers. I knew many of these people first hand and they were very sincere about what they had seen. I did indeed hear a large animal in the woods that made noises that to me, were out of this world. I put things together and yes, I am firmly convinced something is around at times, that man doesn't have 100% knowledge of, like every other wild animal out in the woods around here.

http://sasquatchresearch.net/sassynames.html

I don't think man can find whatever this is. I don't think he can kill it, capture it, or prove it's existence to the world. To me the Native Americans are 100% correct, and this creature does know when man is hunting it. Like the Native American said in the video I posted, "It uses it's magic to get away."

 

[Super X]

The one thing I will say, the investigation methods are questionable IMO! As a Hunter, when you hunt something, you must be quite,stealthy and above all, watch your human scent. Every time I have followed a investigation, they break these basic rules of hunting. They set up camera trap's usually wearing leather boot's, bare hand's, not to mention the camera crew filming all this and the scent they are leaving behind and they talk way too much. Animal's are very smart and the wood's are like our living room's, they know them well, just like you know your own home. As a hunter, I am always amazed how animals can avoid being seen, heard, ect. Their life is on the line, so mistakes can cost them their's. Trophy Buck's get that big because they have mastered avoiding human's. They spend their day's hiding in the thicket's, go completely nocturnal when pressure is put on them and have many escape routes. If BF exist, it's going to take some skill to get one on camera but even then, it probably will not be proof enough. It's going to take a dead one too prove it as there is just too much trickery with film's and photo's.

 

[Codger_64]

Those people on "Finding Bigfoot" go out at night because bigfoot, is said to be mostly nocturnal. It's also creepier to be out at night and adds a degree of spookiness to the entire affair. I don't think they will, ever prove anything that way. But, they do travel to places with reports of bigfoot. Last night they were in Northern Minnesota and when they asked a town hall, meeting room full of folks, how many had seen bigfoot, 80% raised their hands. There was some eyewitnesses stories told, a young girl, a man and his wife, and a older lady. They all described seeing the same type thing. Then the BF team, went about in the woods, (in night and day) found very little if anything. Of course at the end they was disappointed, that they didn't find bigfoot!

All I can say, is I grew up hearing stories of a "thing" that roamed the area I live in for decades. (I looked in old newspapers, it was front page news many times) I used to laugh and make fun of them. Then, I heard more stories. Stories that were present day and the people seeing something, did not run to the newspapers. I knew many of these people first hand and they were very sincere about what they had seen. I did indeed hear a large animal in the woods that made noises that to me, were out of this world. I put things together and yes, I am firmly convinced something is around at times, that man doesn't have 100% knowledge of, like every other wild animal out in the woods around here.

http://sasquatchresearch.net/sassynames.html

I don't think man can find whatever this is. I don't think he can kill it, capture it, or prove it's existence to the world. To me the Native Americans are 100% correct, and this creature does know when man is hunting it. Like the Native American said in the video I posted, "It uses it's magic to get away."

Well, you point out another reason why many people dismiss the stories and sketchy evidence out of hand. People claiming that Sasquatch is supernatural, magic, an interdimensional being that cannot be proven by science. Dowsing suffers the same stigma mostly due to those who make outlandish claims of abilities and powers and the source of those powers. That makes it fairly easy for non-believers to be dismissive, no matter one's own personal experience.

 

[dipbait]

It snows in some Bigfoot country. Theres no way that big creature could mask his footprints. Anybody could follow them.Lead you right to him .Maybe they hibernates also.

 

[Erasmus]

The one thing I will say, the investigation methods are questionable IMO! As a Hunter, when you hunt something, you must be quite,stealthy and above all, watch your human scent. Every time I have followed a investigation, they break these basic rules of hunting. They set up camera trap's usually wearing leather boot's, bare hand's, not to mention the camera crew filming all this and the scent they are leaving behind and they talk way too much. Animal's are very smart and the wood's are like our living room's, they know them well, just like you know your own home. As a hunter, I am always amazed how animals can avoid being seen, heard, ect. Their life is on the line, so mistakes can cost them their's. Trophy Buck's get that big because they have mastered avoiding human's. They spend their day's hiding in the thicket's, go completely nocturnal when pressure is put on them and have many escape routes. If BF exist, it's going to take some skill to get one on camera but even then, it probably will not be proof enough. It's going to take a dead one too prove it as there is just too much trickery with film's and photo's.

Now that's what I'm talking about.

Many trophy type animals are damn paranoid, sneaky and elusive, which is how they got to be so big. If for the sake of argument our bigfoot creature: exists and is smarter than a trophy deer(!), then it's no wonder he is so damn hard to spot, never mind photograph with a well focused, clear zoom image.

I too share your irritation that Moneymaker and his bunch talk too much, bash around too much, slam car doors, shine lights around, stink, excessive movement, etc. If they're trying to find something smarter and more elusive than a nice game animal, they better smarten up, themselves. I can tell you from experience, its hard enough to outsmart animals with brains the size of greenbeans, nevermind something with a brain as big as ours. I think game cameras utilize active IR emitters for "nonvisible" light for night time shots. I'm starting to wonder if nocturnal bigfoot sees in the near IR, which allows him to avoid game cams, and camera crews w/ active night vision.

At a minimum, Moneymaker's bunch need to take suggestions from hunters/sneaky military types: wear earthtones, shutup, stop emitting IR and white light, walk quietly, utilize scent elimination technology, beef up their passive detection effort (meaning super expensive Mil Spec AN/PVS sort of night vision, enhanced hearing, seismic sensors, surveillance drones, LP/OP's, quieter sorts of very common appearing 4x4's, stay behinds, gilly suited observers, washing clothese in Sports Wash (has no IR fabric brighteners), more volunteers, more sensors, camera ambushes, sound discipline, light discipline.

They need to spend WAY more time in the field.

I've walked along in the desert after sundown, with a dim red headlamp barely illuminating the deserted, isolated dirt road. You would probably be very surprised how a seemingly empty landscape comes alive in the pitch darkness. I was.

If you do that, bring a gun. You will be glad you did.

 

[5.56]

Look at it this way, the first person to capture "real" evidence will become instantly famous and probably very rich.

Blanketing a known Squatch hot spot with game cameras might be a worthwhile investment.

You won't catch me doing it though.

 

[meanoldbobber]

Let me weigh in by saying, I don't know WHAT I believe or am convinced of regarding the culture surrounding BF.
It is easy (for me) to staunchly demand science...gimme a body, some DNA, some unmistakeable video footage, something to PROVE it.

So far that isn't happening, but then the more realistic side of me says, yeah, maybe there is something to this, when adding the credible people who have at minimum, experiences that can't be explained by science, or by doubters alike.

I also agree that when the idea of metaphysics come into play, the field changes even more.

I guess the issue I more have with the concept of there being supernatural forces at work here, are that to accept the credible witnesses alongside accepting the supernatural idea that BF knows you are watching, sort of cancels each other out.

If it is to be assumed that even with BF being of some sort of supernatural quality, these encounters are coincidence, one could also assume that with all the interest and technology being hurled his way, some other more definite proof would exist coincidentally.

Regardless I feel like it is a FASCINATING phenomenon and culture, and can honestly say reading everyones take on it is a joy.

 

[Bigfattyt]

I have a good friend that swears that he had a bigfoot/yeti/Samsquanch encounter. He is a level-headed guy that has never made any other fantastical claims. He is a skeptic of anything supernatural and an extremely skilled hunter. I can't bring myself to believe that bigfoot is real..... but I do not believe for a moment that my friend is lying. Mistaken? Perhaps. I was called in by Parks Canada to track a big cat that wasn't supposed to exist in my area.... until it got hit by a car the next county over. Not that the probability is the same....

Lets try and keep this in W&SS go easy fellas....

I have a similar situation. I have a good friend, who had a spooky experience up in the Uinta mountain range (Wasatch mountains).

He and his family are cattle ranchers and farmers. Everyone in the family are life long hunters (including all the women).

He and and his uncle were out hunting elk. They were well above the snow line, and he shot a great elk. It ran into the woods. They followed the blood trail. About 100 yards into the trees, they found a spot where it had laid down and bled out. Elk tracks leading in, and a laydown impression with a ton of blood. There were no elk tracks leading out. A set of human foot prints lead up to the elk bleed out. And then back into the trees, trailing a bit of blood. The foot prints were shoeless. An hours hike above the snow line, and no accessible roads (only a snow mobile, or cat would get up there).

The foot print size were about a 14 or 15. Not abnormally huge or anything. The thing that freaked them out was that a "person" walked out of the dark woods, picked up a bull elk whole, and ran off with it. Single set of tracks leading up to the lay down, and distinct back out. Elk tracks in, and none leading out. It only took them a few minutes to hike down from where they shot the elk to where some one picked it up and walked off with it. No drag marks or anything!

Both he and his uncle wrote down what happened. They will not say "Sasquatch". Or tell you they believe in such.

He said they both had a very bad feeling (and they were both carrying 7mm mags, and back up pistols). But they decided with the light going, and a long hike back to the truck below the snow line, that they were not about to go investigate what picked up an elk and ran off with it, barefoot, above the snow line.

I have held a Gigantopithacus skull replica in an anthropology course I took in college. When you compare the teeth size in that skull (jawbone) and those of a full grown gorilla, you appreciate the size of that creature. The skull replica (best estimate based on jaw size, tooth size etc), it is huge! A full grown Gorilla skull looks like a baby skull compared to it.


I don't have the answers. I have spend some time in the wilderness, and have never seen one. But that is not definitive of anything.

 

[August West]

That's a great story. :thumbup:

When I was stationed at Ft Stewart me and my wife had to stop my truck to let a 100+ pound black/gray mottled colored cat cross the road in front of us. I know that there are not supposed to be large cats in south GA, especially not black leopard colored cats, but I also know what me and Tammy saw. I have hunted all my life and killed my fair share of hogs and deer and feel very comfortable judging the size of the animal we saw. This is a good thread and I am really enjoying researching bigfoots, like UFOs I really hope they do exist and personal experiences, like we are hearing here, are the only thing that keep me interested. Chris

 

[Sig_Op]

It snows in some Bigfoot country. Theres no way that big creature could mask his footprints. Anybody could follow them.Lead you right to him .Maybe they hibernates also.

Maybe he uses a hover craft as a mode of transportation

 

[5.56]

They hibernate.

And by they, I mean bears.

 

[coyotebc]

I agree but many believers look at eyewitness accounts, films such as the Patterson film, footprints and other things as real evidence.
This difference in what is accepted as evidence between believers and skeptics is part of the reason that many of these types of discusions go sideways

Generally speaking, proof will come when evidence is shown that has passed the rigors of the scientific methodology. No evidence has done so to date. And, sadly, most evidence gathered by enthusiasts has not been scrupulously accounted for in a chain of custody, such as that required for forensic crime evidence. The critter is supposed to be a physical, mortal animal. It should have mortal remains somewhere. It should be subject to the same forces of nature and mishaps that bison, bears and humans are, i.e. fall into a river, fall from a cliff, be hit by a car, shot by a hunter, die from accident or disease, hunger or thirst. If indeed they live, they also die. Mammals leave behind bones and teeth like the extinct giant ape of Asia, mastadons and mammoths, dire wolves and sabretooth tigers.

 

[coyotebc]

Moneymaker is a very divisive force in the Sasquatch field.
I am firmly in the camp that believes he brings disrepute to serious researchers.
There are many Sasquatch researchers that are very experienced hunters, I know at least one in Washington State that spends months at a time in the field.
There are many BF researchers that believe that BF can see into the IR range and see the light being emitted by trail cameras.
Google the Olympia project

Now that's what I'm talking about.

Many trophy type animals are damn paranoid, sneaky and elusive, which is how they got to be so big. If for the sake of argument our bigfoot creature: exists and is smarter than a trophy deer(!), then it's no wonder he is so damn hard to spot, never mind photograph with a well focused, clear zoom image.

I too share your irritation that Moneymaker and his bunch talk too much, bash around too much, slam car doors, shine lights around, stink, excessive movement, etc. If they're trying to find something smarter and more elusive than a nice game animal, they better smarten up, themselves. I can tell you from experience, its hard enough to outsmart animals with brains the size of greenbeans, nevermind something with a brain as big as ours. I think game cameras utilize active IR emitters for "nonvisible" light for night time shots. I'm starting to wonder if nocturnal bigfoot sees in the near IR, which allows him to avoid game cams, and camera crews w/ active night vision.

At a minimum, Moneymaker's bunch need to take suggestions from hunters/sneaky military types: wear earthtones, shutup, stop emitting IR and white light, walk quietly, utilize scent elimination technology, beef up their passive detection effort (meaning super expensive Mil Spec AN/PVS sort of night vision, enhanced hearing, seismic sensors, surveillance drones, LP/OP's, quieter sorts of very common appearing 4x4's, stay behinds, gilly suited observers, washing clothese in Sports Wash (has no IR fabric brighteners), more volunteers, more sensors, camera ambushes, sound discipline, light discipline.

They need to spend WAY more time in the field.

I've walked along in the desert after sundown, with a dim red headlamp barely illuminating the deserted, isolated dirt road. You would probably be very surprised how a seemingly empty landscape comes alive in the pitch darkness. I was.

If you do that, bring a gun. You will be glad you did.