Standard Council Tool Axes versus Velvicut... worth the $$$?

Any new Council I've seen has an unacceptable grind. At least Omahaknife offers to sharpen/grind them.

24-25" is arguably a better length for limbing (I think it's better, more agile). 4" seems too far off, handles can be 1-2" off. Are you sure it was 28"? I see some advertise as 24" (Velvicut) and others as 28".

That said, I've never used a Hudson Bay pattern so I don't know how good it'd be for limbing. It may be something you could exchange if it is that far off what you ordered.
 
The handle starts out 28" total length and loses a couple during pressing the head on, leaving 26" or so from bottom of handle to top of head. Omaha fixes/straightens out the grind and sharpens up pretty nice, but they can be a little wonky from the factory "sharpening".

PS, same handle and initial length as boys axe, so far as I can tell, so I wouldn't count on the FS boys axe being much longer.
 
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Chignecto Woodsman said:
Any new Council I've seen has an unacceptable grind. At least Omahaknife offers to sharpen/grind them.

24-25" is arguably a better length for limbing (I think it's better, more agile). 4" seems too far off, handles can be 1-2" off. Are you sure it was 28"? I see some advertise as 24" (Velvicut) and others as 28".

That said, I've never used a Hudson Bay pattern so I don't know how good it'd be for limbing. It may be something you could exchange if it is that far off what you ordered.
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Yes, it is SUPPOSED to be 28"- that's how it was listed on the website, and that's what the tag on the axe says. IF I include the axehead as part of the measurement, I get 26.5", and I guess that is supposed to be included, so it's only 1.5" off. I bought this one partly because I wanted the extra length over the 26" axes sold by others... I did not get those extra 2 inches, or inch and a half, rather. I don't think it will matter too much, but all of my other tools are spot on with their measurements.
 
BG_Farmer said:
The handle starts out 28" total length and loses a couple during pressing the head on, leaving 26" or so from bottom of handle to top of head. Omaha fixes/straightens out the grind and sharpens up pretty nice, but they can be a little wonky from the factory "sharpening".

PS, same handle and initial length as boys axe, so far as I can tell, so I wouldn't count on the FS boys axe being much longer.
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The Boys Axe is advertised as 27", and the Hudson Bay as 28". There is ALSO a 24" Hudson Bay sold. Mine is 26.5 max... it could be either one I suppose, and maybe got the wrong sticker? Stamped as a 28 when it's actually a 24... maybe.
 
bluesmandan said:
...it even has a tag on it from Council that says 28" handle...Even if I include the section that goes through the eye, it's still only 26" total...
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The "fine print" at the Council Tool site:

2# Hudson Bay Axe with 28" Handle... Product Number: 20HB28... 2 lb. Hudson Bay Axe head outfitted with a curved hickory handle. Two-handed camp axe, 26" overall length ... Approximately 2" of the handle is removed during assembly making the overall length of the tool 26".

http://www.counciltool.com/product.asp?pg=product&item=20HB28
 
As far as I know all handle measurements include the head, so 26.5" would be normal. I'm sure you'll find it useful when you play around with it for a bit.

Just watch that your legs are always farther away from what you are striking than the length of the handle, keep the handle traveling so that it ends the strike parallel to the ground (don't round your swings), and use minimal force if cutting anything above waist height. Don't know how experienced you are so I thought I'd mention that since the 24-28" range can be pretty dangerous.
 
Steve Tall said:
The "fine print" at the Council Tool site:

2# Hudson Bay Axe with 28" Handle... Product Number: 20HB28... 2 lb. Hudson Bay Axe head outfitted with a curved hickory handle. Two-handed camp axe, 26" overall length ... Approximately 2" of the handle is removed during assembly making the overall length of the tool 26".

http://www.counciltool.com/product.asp?pg=product&item=20HB28
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That is SOOO weird! Why in the world would they market it as 28" when they KNOW it is only 26"? Like anyone cares about the imaginary 2 inches that USED to be there!

By the way, I did notice on further inspection that the head had started to work loose from the shaft... coming off 1/8 to 1/4" - not much, but it had begun, and it was only gonna get worse (I had only cut down a 4" diameter tree). So I hammered 14 nails through the eye into the shaft to increase the tension. Hammer as many in as you can, til it just won't accept any more. That big wedge they put in there doesn't do it. In my opinion, the shaft should be dried, then installed, then remoistened with oils to make it expand, then maybe install a wedge. I imagine the slot they cut in the eye was just too wide, so when they hammered the wedge in, it filled a gap but didn't actually cause much outward pressure to cause the head to "stick".

I've also sanded the handle a little bit, and applied a coat of lemon oil, then Lexol (which is neatsfoot oil and waxes... leaves a nice semi-tacky finish).
 
bluesmandan said:
The factory edge was okay but not great. I put it on my slack belt grinder for quite some time to get it shaving sharp. Please note that the edge was not "bad" but not great, and I had to grind a long time, which indicates to me that the steel has been hardened in the mid to upper 50's like advertised. I don't have the means of checking the actual rockwell hardness, but I've sharpened hundreds and hundreds of knives and many many different kinds of steels, and based on the "feel" of the grinding, I'm gonna put it in the mid to upper 50's. 56 or 57 maybe. Something like that.
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I trust the 'feel' of someone who has done a lot of sharpening work. Mid to upper 50's is great - right where you want it.
 
bluesmandan said:
..... So I hammered 14 nails through the eye into the shaft to increase the tension.
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I like your sense of humor.

But in the future you should know that it's best to use just 7 nails plus a washer, a broken key, two screws and a dime. :D
 
I purchased a HB Velvicut off the Forum and really liked it. Very nice finish and I do like the steel - easy to sharpen and holds an edge for quite a while. I typically use it for kindling and it does a great job for that. I have used it to limb with which it did just fine. Good grain in the handle, all in all a very nice little axe. It does not do a very good job splitting much more than kindling. I realized I needed to upgrade - had been using a wedge and sledge for the big stuff, but needed something quicker for the stuff left over after the wedge. Bought a Council jersey pattern Classic. Took about an hour with file and sandpaper to get a good edge. Took several hours with a belt sander to get the head halfway close to where I wanted it. I had hoped that buying the Classic would give me a bit more of a refined finish than the standard, but was not overly impressed. Whittled/filed/sanded the handle down and hit it with some BLO and it has turned into a very serviceable axe. Steel holds up well. Decent grain in the handle - the Classic I got isn't anything to get real excited about, but it definitely gets the job done, just not with a lot of style
 
If it helps, I just measured my Council FSS boys axe and the entire haft through eye is 27.5 inches. This was bought through Omaha Knife, so they were special order with a Vevicut haft.
 
parasloth said:
If it helps, I just measured my Council FSS boys axe and the entire haft through eye is 27.5 inches. This was bought through Omaha Knife, so they were special order with a Vevicut haft.
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Yeah, that sounds right. It's supposed to be 27" and it's 27.5". Almost spot on.
 
Alright, so I felled and limbed a larger tree... a white oak, 7-8" diameter, 21-22" circumference.

The CT HB did pretty well. I'd give it 3.5 or 4 stars out of 5.

The Pros: It's light so it doesn't bother my back. The profile allows it to cut deep. The handle is comfortable. It holds an edge fairly well. It is excellent for limbing.

The Cons: At the end of the job, the tip of the beard on the heel had broken off, about 1/4" or so. The toe was blunted flat for about 1/2" to 3/4" from the edge. The short handle means you have to bend over quite a bit for cutting at the base of a tree.

Conclusion: It's great for limbing, but not for felling because of the light weight and short handle. Too much bending over - though it is good in tighter places where you can't swing a 36" handle. I found myself swinging it one handed much of the time, because then you don't have to bend over quite so much when chopping at the base of the tree. I do like the steel pretty well, and the shape, but I'm not sure they got the heat treat all the way up the toe, because of the way it flattened out.

All in all, I think the Forest Service axe at 2.25# and slightly longer handle will do a much better job at a small tree feller/limber, and wish I had bought it instead. The Hudson Bay is a long hatchet, but it is still a "hatchet", and not an "axe" if you get my drift. I may look into getting the Forest Service head, and putting a 36" handle on it.
 
Chignecto Woodsman said:
Do you have back problems, or is it just something when swinging an axe?
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Mostly from swinging a heavier axe... don't notice any problems otherwise. It's the diagonal movement of felling a tree, I think, and I don't think it's from splitting. The back is made to either coil OR bend, and not do both at the same time. When you mix coiling AND bending, then you hurt something. You know a baseball swing is all coil, and you're fine. A straight down chop is all bend, and you're fine. But do a diagonal chop and you're bending and coiling... recipe for injury. Apparently when I make the diagonal cuts necessary for felling a tree, with a larger axe, I move wrong. Really gets me. So I'm trying a lighter axe to reduce the strain and prevent these awful back aches.
 
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