Startup freehand sharpening setup advice wanted

T

Truesome

Joined
Jan 11, 2023
Messages
117
Hi all,

Long time listener, first time caller…

I am a weekend outdoorsman, camper, hiker, as well as cook at home and hobbyist woodworker. I tend to be a more traditional handwork kind of guy and like simple, less elaborate solutions when possible. I have a bunch of pocket knives, kitchen knives, as well as woodworking chisels, etc. Until now, I’ve basically sharpened everything on a tiny crappy little sharpening stone and I’m looking to upgrade to a decent set up and, in the meantime, develop the hand working skill of sharpening by hand.

I’ve done a bunch of reading, and know I don’t want a highly specialized mechanical machine like the KME or Lansky systems, and would rather learn how to sharpen freehand on a stone. I don’t want electric machines either. I also would like one of the lower maintenance options, so I’ve ruled out soaking stones, softer stones that need a lot of flattening, and super expensive set ups.

So far, I feel quite drawn to a set of Dan’s Arkansas stones as well as the Shapton pro splash and go stones. Part of me wants to try both, the other part of me has heard advice that it’s best to learn the skill on one type of stone first and then expand. As I understand, something like a course Atoma plate (400?) would help with courser work as well as for flattening the others. Figure I’ll learn to hone on the black stone? Or need a higher grit SP? (I keep reading the SP 2000 is the “star of the lineup” but wonder if that’s redundant with the Arkansas stones). Stropping leather too. I’m looking to spend under $200 (and found Dans soft, medium, and black 6x2” at KME for under a hundred $ all together).

So given all that—for those who read this far (thank you)—what’s your advice for a solid setup within these loose criteria, given the types of things I’ll be sharpening?

Thanks all. I’ve learned a ton from you here and look forward to your responses.
Tim
 
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Get a dmt extra coarse and coarse. This is all you need unless you plan on whittling hair. Coarse dmt is plenty sharp done right which is basically making sure you deburred the edge.
 
I think you're on a reasonable track, assuming you don't mind mixing waterstones and oilstones, which is a kind of complexity -- you don't want any oil on a Shapton Pro.

A set of Dan's should do you very well, and the price is good. Dan's soft ark makes a great toothy edge for the kitchen, and the black should be great for a final edge on your chisels.

However, Novaculite is slow. I do think you want something that's a natural precursor to the soft. SP 2000 is, I'm sure, a great stone, but is a pretty fine grit to put into that role. Personally, I'd choose the Shapton Glass 500, which can leave you with surprisingly fine scratches if you end at very light pressure, but a more sensible person might suggest a 1000. Since you seek simplicity, perhaps a Norton combo stone, which also would use oil, and is cheap, would be a more natural coarse complement to the Arkansas stones.

It is not advisable to flatten Arkansas stones with a diamond plate. Oh, it will work. But it will age the plate really fast, and rip out diamonds. Use silicon carbide powder (60-80 grit is good) on a granite tile, or a piece of sturdy glass.
 
Truesome said:
Hi all,

Long time listener, first time caller…

I am a weekend outdoorsman, camper, hiker, as well as cook at home and hobbyist woodworker. I tend to be a more traditional handwork kind of guy and like simple, less elaborate solutions when possible. I have a bunch of pocket knives, kitchen knives, as well as woodworking chisels, etc. Until now, I’ve basically sharpened everything on a tiny crappy little sharpening stone and I’m looking to upgrade to a decent set up and, in the meantime, develop the hand working skill of sharpening by hand.

I’ve done a bunch of reading, and know I don’t want a highly specialized mechanical machine like the KME or Lansky systems, and would rather learn how to sharpen freehand on a stone. I don’t want electric machines either. I also would like one of the lower maintenance options, so I’ve ruled out soaking stones, softer stones that need a lot of flattening, and super expensive set ups.

So far, I feel quite drawn to a set of Dan’s Arkansas stones as well as the Shapton pro splash and go stones. Part of me wants to try both, the other part of me has heard advice that it’s best to learn the skill on one type of stone first and then expand. As I understand, something like a course Atoma plate (400?) would help with courser work as well as for flattening the others. Figure I’ll learn to hone on the black stone? Or need a higher grit SP? (I keep reading the SP 2000 is the “star of the lineup” but wonder if that’s redundant with the Arkansas stones). Stropping leather too. I’m looking to spend under $200 (and found Dans soft, medium, and black 6x2” at KME for under a hundred $ all together).

So given all that—for those who read this far (thank you)—what’s your advice for a solid setup within these loose criteria, given the types of things I’ll be sharpening?

Thanks all. I’ve learned a ton from you here and look forward to your responses.
Tim
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Norton oil stones, like the combination India or crystolon to India, paired with a vintage Washita, not the more modern colored Washita. Just get one that is flat, there will be no need for a soft or medium ark after that.
I learned how to sharpen on a hard ark with a stone I purchased from Western Auto as a dumb kid with no guidance, don't try to do that. The black ark is the slowest of all the arks and probably the finest. It's not at all needed and is too fine to really be practical on knifes.

A 2x8 stone is going to be better than 2x6 for anything not small.

Like posted above loose grit and wet dry paper is the way to go. A flat ceramic tile is another option. I use the loose grit over warn paper to not to ware the surface and always finish on paper.
 
Could be an unpopular opinion, but I think Arkansas stones are past their sell-by date. They're slow and they don't cut super steels. They will struggle mightily with even modestly "super" steels like s30v. My recommendation would be to go for Naniwa Professional stones (formerly Chosera). Maybe start out with the 400 and 800 or 1000, and that may be all you ever need if you aren't interested in mirror finishes. These are splash-and-go and they will work with *almost* any steel (up to around 65 hrc).
 
I use a medium india and hard arkansas, both from Nortons, and I like the results. With that said I would not recommend the the arkansas on price alone. A coarse or medium crystolon, a fine india, and a sintered ceramic like idahone or spyderco would be a low maintenance setup that will cost less then one high quality arkansas and your results will be just as good and faster.
 
You may already know this, but if you have any "super steel" knives (4% vanadium or higher) you'll want to make sure you have diamond or CBN stones to properly abrade the steel. DMT, Atoma, Ultrasharp, and eze-lap are all solid brands, although some might say DMT quality has gone down as of late.

If you only have more "simple" steels, I think you would love a few Shapton Pro or Glass stones. Both lines are great, can't go wrong with either. Naniwa Chosera line up is also fantastic, although more expensive then either Shapton, especially in the higher grit range.
 
Point taken about Ark stones and harder steel.

I wonder if something more like Sharpton Glass 500 to go with the Sharpton Pro 2000 makes more sense. I just keep reading such good things about those two stones, which are cheaper than something like chosera 800 & 3000.

Question: I found some sales on Atoma flattening plates; 140 or 400 if I can only choose one? Maybe 140 to flatten both and a cheap Nagura to smooth out scratches on the 2k after?
 
Truesome said:
Point taken about Ark stones and harder steel.

I wonder if something more like Sharpton Glass 500 to go with the Sharpton Pro 2000 makes more sense. I just keep reading such good things about those two stones, which are cheaper than something like chosera 800 & 3000.

Question: I found some sales on Atoma flattening plates; 140 or 400 if I can only choose one? Maybe 140 to flatten both and a cheap Nagura to smooth out scratches on the 2k after?
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You cant go wrong with either Shapton Glass or Shapton Pro. Where I am, they are around the same price. SG500 and SP2000 would be a pretty good match for a two stone set up IMO, although you could go with any number of other combos within the Shapton line up.

I have the Atoma 140, so can't comment on the 400, but it does a great job. You could use sheets of wet and dry sandpaper in a finer grit to finish resurfacing as an alternative to a nagura if you need to. A nagura might be cheaper in the long run though. It helps to use circular motions on the Atoma to avoid too many scratches.
 
Truesome said:
I am a weekend outdoorsman, camper, hiker, as well as cook at home and hobbyist woodworker. I tend to be a more traditional handwork kind of guy and like simple, less elaborate solutions when possible.
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Get a DMT Diafold two-sided plate or two. You can put them in your pocket and sharpen anything, anywhere. They won't be quite as fast as larger bench stones, but no set-up is required. You might also want to put a dry-erase marker in your pocket, too.
 
I have good news and bad news, T Truesome . The good news is that you came to the right place for those questions. The bad news is that the folks who hang around here are a big Ol’ bunch of enablers. :D

With that said, and with the caveat that I’m a relatively inexperienced sharpener, if I had to rebuild my setup, I would likely grab diamond plates in 300 & 600 grit for the coarse work, then some water stones. I would probably grab a soaker stone like one I bought some years ago in 400/1000 (the brand of which is synonymous with “small, keen-edged rock”). It was about $30 when I got it and it’s one of my favorite stones. It handles up to and including S30V without much trouble. If I wanted something a little nicer, maybe a couple of Shapton Pros in 1k & 2K. I just got a Shapton Pro 2K, and it’s impressive. (But I just got it…)

I have Ultrasharp plates, and I am happy with them, but also have never tried a different brand. I also have Arkansas stones and while I do like them, I think a limited startup budget can be spent more wisely.
 
I've been freehand sharpening for a little over 40 years and often get asked this sort of question from friends and acquaintances who want to learn to sharpen their knives.
Will always recommend starting off with a Norton India Coarse/Fine stone 8" x 2" and a home made or purchased strop. The coarse side is fast and efficient in edge repair, removing chips, reprofiling and thinning the edge and is extremely long lasting (doesn't require flattening for an extremely long time). The fine side, although not as fine as an Ark, is also very quick to raise a burr and will easily put a shaving toothy edge on all but the very hardest high Vanadium super steels. The edge off the fine will be suitable for most everyday requirements. A leather strop I feel is also a must, helps remove any left over burr, and if coated with chromium oxide paste or diamond paste, will bring your edge back to life if you don't let them get too blunt. As it is such a hard wearing stone, also makes it an excellent choice for chisels and woodworking tools.
Once you have mastered this stone and can produce shaving edges, then the world of different stones and options becomes fun, but not really necessary. I have the full range of Shapton Pro's, these are great splash and go's and also incredibly easy to produce awesome edges. My usual progression here for blunt knives is 320 - 1000 - 2000 and I rarely go beyond the 2000. Probably the SP2000 would be the next add on stone I would pick to compliment the Norton India. Natural stone are great fun, Arks, Slates, JNats, Coticules, Washitas and the list can go on forever, but the common and cheap Norton India Combo will get the job done quickly and effectively.
 
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Stockman said:
I've been freehand sharpening for a little over 40 years and often get asked this sort of question from friends and acquaintances who want to learn to sharpen their knives.
Will always recommend starting off with a Norton India Coarse/Fine stone 8" x 2" and a home made or purchased strop. The coarse side is fast and efficient in edge repair, removing chips, reprofiling and thinning the edge and is extremely long lasting (doesn't require flattening for an extremely long time). The fine side, although not as fine as an Ark, is also very quick to raise a burr and will easily put a shaving toothy edge on all but the very hardest high Vanadium super steels. The edge off the fine will be suitable for most everyday requirements. A leather strop I feel is also a must, helps remove any left over burr, and if coated with chromium oxide paste or diamond paste, will bring your edge back to life if you don't let them get too blunt. As it is such a hard wearing stone, also makes it an excellent choice for chisels and woodworking tools.
Once you have mastered this stone and can produce shaving edges, then the world of different stones and options becomes fun, but not really necessary. I have the full range of Shapton Pro's, these are great splash and go's and also incredibly easy to produce awesome edges. My usual progression here for blunt knives is 320 - 1000 - 2000 and I rarely go beyond the 2000. Probably the SP2000 would be the next add on stone I would pick to compliment the Norton India. Natural stone are great fun, Arks, Slates, JNats, Coticules, Washitas and the list can go on forever, but the common and cheap Norton India Combo will get the job done quickly and effectively.
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Not that there is anything wrong with the Norton stones, but even the fine is pretty coarse. It's probably similar to the SG500 in grit/finish. It's a pretty solid recommendation overall though, just not something I would use for say kitchen knives unless I had a finer stone to finish on. That's just me though.
 
Wow, lots of different suggestions! Decision is almost harder now than it was two days ago lol. I guess this falls into the category of "more than one way to skin a cat." Thanks all.
 
Truesome said:
Wow, lots of different suggestions! Decision is almost harder now than it was two days ago lol. I guess this falls into the category of "more than one way to skin a cat." Thanks all.
Click to expand...

Just go ahead and pick up the Shapton Glass 500 along with the Shapton Pro 2K, you will thank me later. You can also add the Atoma 140 for flattening them, it's what I use on all of my stones, even my 5K Shapton Pro and it works just fine.

Other suggestions will work just fine, but if you have the money to get the Shapton's plus the Atoma you won't find yourself wanting to "upgrade" those stones at a later date. Down the road you can add to them if needed, but they are 3 of the best stones out there at their respective grits.
 
I'd definitely recommend something like the Shaptons over Arkansas stones. I like pairing the Shapton Glass 500 and 1000 for general edge maintenance, but if you like more polish a higher grit second stone will be better.

Also, prepare for a long journey on learning to sharpen freehand. About 15 years in, I'm still learning and improving. It's great when the results are there, but can be frustrating, especially starting out when you don't really know how to troubleshoot your own mistakes.
 
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