Startup freehand sharpening setup advice wanted

[jiggyfly16]

Aren't those pretty course? What makes you say Crys over India stones? Or a soft Ark?

They are coarse enough to set a bevel or to repair the edge quickly.
When you start free-handing and haven't got the consistency part down yet, working a bevel too long can fatigue you and you can mess up the established bevel. Doing so quickly is very helpful in my opinion.
The fine side while not too fine, will give you a pretty good toothy edge for general use. Crystolon is Silicon Carbide and is a harder abrasive compared to India's Aluminum oxide. The Crystolon can handle mid to higher end stainless steels without issue.
I'd say get both India and Crystolon. If i'm sharpening carbon steels I always go for my India stones.
Arkansas Stones are softer than Aluminum oxide so you lose a lot of versatility.

 

[Bkicks333]

I’m between the suehiro cerax 1000 and Rika 5000 or the byxco artic fox and American mutt.

 

[Truesome]

They are coarse enough to set a bevel or to repair the edge quickly.
When you start free-handing and haven't got the consistency part down yet, working a bevel too long can fatigue you and you can mess up the established bevel. Doing so quickly is very helpful in my opinion.
The fine side while not too fine, will give you a pretty good toothy edge for general use. Crystolon is Silicon Carbide and is a harder abrasive compared to India's Aluminum oxide. The Crystolon can handle mid to higher end stainless steels without issue.
I'd say get both India and Crystolon. If i'm sharpening carbon steels I always go for my India stones.
Arkansas Stones are softer than Aluminum oxide so you lose a lot of versatility.

That's helpful, thank you. Question, if I do end up with a synthetic whetstone down the road, can I use the crystolon to flatten it? Also, do you use oil on these or is water or soapy water effective?

 

[jiggyfly16]

That's helpful, thank you. Question, if I do end up with a synthetic whetstone down the road, can I use the crystolon to flatten it? Also, do you use oil on these or is water or soapy water effective?

I wouldn't recommend using the Crystolon to flatten other stones if you are already using the Crystolon as a sharpening stone (it won't be flat anymore). You can use loose silicone carbide grit and and a piece of glass to lap stones flat. Crystolon and India stones are oil stones so you can use mineral oil or any honing oil on them. They do come pre-oiled so if you want to use water, you will need to strip the oil from them first. I personally use them dry and wash afterwards.

 

[jeffbird]

Lots of good comments.

OP,

I do not do woodworking, so defer to those who do. But, I had a Kitayama 8k and loathed it. It included some very coarse particles that would not soften even with prolonged soaking. I gave it a few tries, but it kept wrecking the edge on my straight razors. Changed over to the Naniwa “Snow White” 8k, which has been a delight to use on razors.

 

[catspa]

Get yourself an Eclipse chisel guide. It’s a simple but ingenious little jig that will give you great results while you’re building up your freehand muscle memory.

Parker

 

[Truesome]

Get yourself an Eclipse chisel guide. It’s a simple but ingenious little jig that will give you great results while you’re building up your freehand muscle memory.

Parker

Will this one do? $13...

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B099NSD6X9/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&th=1

These are pretty inexpensive as well...

 

[catspa]

Yep, that black and chrome one. You’ll like it. Some models open up wide enough for a 2” plane iron.

Parker

 

[nhobo]

I find it curious that this discussion of sharpening woodworking chisels has gotten this far without discussing what kind of chisels they are.

 

[Truesome]

I find it curious that this discussion of sharpening woodworking chisels has gotten this far without discussing what kind of chisels they are.

Just a set of straight beveled wood chisels. The sort that the above gadget is designed for. Like these…

 

[nhobo]

Just a set of straight beveled wood chisels. The sort that the above gadget is designed for. Like these…

Diamond stones. Those chisels won't take an edge at the level of Japanese chisels on water stones.

I hand sharpen, changing the bevel for different woods. Softer woods like cedar require a very sharp bevel, harder woods require less bevel. A microbevel can increase edge durability, it also makes it a bit easier to get an edge for beginners.

Hand sharpening allows you to control the shape of the blade. For example, planes and slicks for paring often require a bit of belly with relief at the edges to keep from digging in. Sometimes you need a chisel that cuts slightly left or right for clean inside corners. It all depends on the kind and level of work.

When I was starting out I tried a guide (like the Eclipse above) and found it difficult to control on narrow chisels. Better to feel the bevel against the stone and feel the size of the burr side-to-side. When sharpening Japanese chisels you can hear the difference between the hardened edge (crisp sound) and the soft steel backing (dull sound), this tells you where you are.

 

[Truesome]

Diamond stones. Those chisels won't take an edge at the level of Japanese chisels on water stones.

I hand sharpen, changing the bevel for different woods. Softer woods like cedar require a very sharp bevel, harder woods require less bevel. A microbevel can increase edge durability, it also makes it a bit easier to get an edge for beginners.

Hand sharpening allows you to control the shape of the blade. For example, planes and slicks for paring often require a bit of belly with relief at the edges to keep from digging in. Sometimes you need a chisel that cuts slightly left or right for clean inside corners. It all depends on the kind and level of work.

When I was starting out I tried a guide (like the Eclipse above) and found it difficult to control on narrow chisels. Better to feel the bevel against the stone and feel the size of the burr side-to-side. When sharpening Japanese chisels you can hear the difference between the hardened edge (crisp sound) and the soft steel backing (dull sound), this tells you where you are.

Interesting. Your experience is invaluable, so thank you. It’s hard to know what to think until I try it out. There are seeming experts saying Japanese stones (ie Shapton glass) work great for chisels, others saying to use diamond.

I decided to start simple and ordered the India Stones (course/fine combo), the angle guides above, and a strop. I found both a SG 500 and SP 2000 on sale for cheap, so I grabbed those for down the road. I found a few cheap knives at goodwill to destroy for practice and imagine, as long as I go slow and am careful, will end up working on my real blades before long.

 

[catspa]

I find it curious that this discussion of sharpening woodworking chisels has gotten this far without discussing what kind of chisels they are.

Tim seems like a guy who would own a basic set of bench chisels.

…cook at home and hobbyist woodworker. I tend to be a more traditional handwork kind of guy and like simple, less elaborate solutions when possible. I have a bunch of pocket knives, kitchen knives, as well as woodworking chisels, etc.

If he owned a set of laminated Japanese chisels, he would A) be telling us about them, and B) not have been sharpening them on a “tiny crappy little sharpening stone.”

He’s done a lot of reading, that’s good. So he’s not the total noob he claims, yet wants a good hands-on start. Also good.

Yes, he needs more chisels, you and I know that a world of chisels awaits him. He needs skews and cranknecks, mortisers and a big rockered slick, framers in small, medium and large. And Japanese hollow backs with brass strike rings like yours. Not to mention snicks, scorps and gouges.

But he doesn’t know all that yet. What he knows now is, that his crappy little pocket stone has narrow limits, and he’s bumping up against them.

My strong opinion is that an Eclipse jig on a larger stone or two is going to improve on what he’s been doing to his basic bench chisels for little money.

Is it the pinnacle of chisel sharpening technology? No. Will it help him do better at hobbyist woodworking? Yes, a dozen times yes. When he outgrows it, he will have gotten a big return on a small investment.

Framers and finish carpenters I meet on the job, I sharpen their chisels. If they show any interest in sharpening at all, I give them a stone and that jig to try out. Invariably the reaction is positive, sometimes fervently so.

It’s a cheap and simple upgrade, and that’s why I recommend it to Tim, without ever seeing his chisels.

Parker

 

[Stockman]

I decided to start simple and ordered the India Stones (course/fine combo), the angle guides above, and a strop. I found both a SG 500 and SP 2000 on sale for cheap, so I grabbed those for down the road. I found a few cheap knives at goodwill to destroy for practice and imagine, as long as I go slow and am careful, will end up working on my real blades before long.

I believe you have chosen extremely wisely, learning the craft of hand sharpening on one of the best value for money and proven stones over the decades, the Norton India.
Including a strop is also a good choice, it will help you achieve and maintain shaving sharp edges.
When you get to the level of consistently producing shaving sharp edges on the India fine, then you will be truly blown away with what you will produce finishing on the SP2000 followed by a light strop.
With your set up, you will be surprised how quickly you will master the craft of freehand sharpening and how much enjoyment comes from producing great edges.

 

[Truesome]

I believe you have chosen extremely wisely, learning the craft of hand sharpening on one of the best value for money and proven stones over the decades, the Norton India.
Including a strop is also a good choice, it will help you achieve and maintain shaving sharp edges.
When you get to the level of consistently producing shaving sharp edges on the India fine, then you will be truly blown away with what you will produce finishing on the SP2000 followed by a light strop.
With your set up, you will be surprised how quickly you will master the craft of freehand sharpening and how much enjoyment comes from producing great edges.

India stones: do you use oil, dry, or water? Thanks!

 

[jux t]

India stones: do you use oil, dry, or water? Thanks!

Oil

 

[Truesome]

I know most people use oil. I was just curious what Stockman uses since some don't.

 

[Truesome]

I wouldn't recommend using the Crystolon to flatten other stones if you are already using the Crystolon as a sharpening stone (it won't be flat anymore). You can use loose silicone carbide grit and and a piece of glass to lap stones flat. Crystolon and India stones are oil stones so you can use mineral oil or any honing oil on them. They do come pre-oiled so if you want to use water, you will need to strip the oil from them first. I personally use them dry and wash afterwards.

Question: Looks like Crystolon Medium is 180 grit and Fine is 320 grit. The Indias are 150, 240, 400 grit. What's the value in having the Crystolon Stones in addition to the India stones, given the overlap? Wouldn't 2 or 3 India stones cover all the bases, or is there some advantage to the Crys stones of similar grit?

 

[Stockman]

I've always used oil, nothing fancy, often use olive oil from the kitchen if that's close at hand. Pure mineral oil is probably the go if you have bought a new stone. I feel the oil just gives you more control over the amount of pressure you apply, can really make light smooth strokes on the fine side when finishing the edge, or apply the pressure when setting the bevel and creating a bur. India's were pre-soaked in oil and designed to be used with oil, so Ive always stuck with oil and never been too fussed to experiment.

 

[Father & Son Traditional Sharpening]

Get a dmt extra coarse and coarse. This is all you need unless you plan on whittling hair. Coarse dmt is plenty sharp done right which is basically making sure you deburred the edge.

I can generally agree with this however it might be wise to swap out the DMT XC for something like a softer waterstone for preparing the edge bevel to just before the point the edge is apexed. If you can avoid grinding to a burr on the front end and stop just shy of apexing you can use something like 100-200 grit waterstone on many simple steels and set the apex on the DMT Coarse. I find that deburring can be not only a pain for myself and others but anytime you introduce a burr your likelihood of degrading edge retention goes up especially as it becomes more prominent. I often spend a lot of time trying to get back to undamaged steel if I raise a heavy burr because it weakens the metal at the base of the burr that can prevent a clean apex after deburring properly.

It's helpful to think of sharpening as at least two separate steps : shaping and apexing. Shaping can be done with anything but only something that gets muddy tends to keep a burr from forming because of the loose grit plowing into the apex and keeping it from overgrinding to a burr. If you take the same stone and try to apex with it you'll end up with nothing but frustration as you'll never bring out high sharpness unless you commit to using only edge trailing strokes which I'm not fond of. Fixed abrasives like the DMT plates or Spyderco ceramics are free from this issue and will bring out high sharpness easily if you are using light pressure on an already shaped and thin edge.