Startup freehand sharpening setup advice wanted

Truesome said:
Wow, lots of different suggestions! Decision is almost harder now than it was two days ago lol. I guess this falls into the category of "more than one way to skin a cat." Thanks all.
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I told you we’re a bunch of enablers …
 
I grew up on Arkansas and india stones.... Using oil. My dad taught me in the 70's

Today, steels are different.
I still hand grind and sharpen, but I'm using bench stones from @baryonyx
(Idk why I can't get His name/Link to highlight to a link?)

Check out his more modern take on stones. I have 3 different versions.
*And they are nicely priced.
 
A set of Atoma diamond plates, 140, 400, 600, and 1200 can handle most knives.

The 140 can produce a hair shaving edge. Everything else is refining.

A strop with some diamond spray can handle the few knives that need further refinement.

Having said that, I still keep a Dan’s soft and hard Ark with mineral oil in the kitchen to touch up the kitchen knives regularly as they are very soft. The hard Ark or black are nice for finishing an edge too.
 
Stones to match the steel: Japanese stones for carbon, diamond / ceramic for stainless.
 
nhobo said:
Stones to match the steel: Japanese stones for carbon, diamond / ceramic for stainless.
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While it might be true in specific examples, that advise is over-simplified to the point of being useless.

1. "Japanese stones" are mostly ceramic for example Naniwa and Shapton and are great for a wide range of stainless and carbon steels.
2. Many stainless steels do not need diamond stones, in fact only the high end PM steels with high carbide volume and/or very high hardness would need diamond.
 
chalby said:
While it might be true in specific examples, that advise is over-simplified to the point of being useless.

1. "Japanese stones" are mostly ceramic for example Naniwa and Shapton and are great for a wide range of stainless and carbon steels.
2. Many stainless steels do not need diamond stones, in fact only the high end PM steels with high carbide volume and/or very high hardness would need diamond.
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All true. But I enjoy the feel of sharpening, and some kitchen knife stainless steels (cheap ones, plus Global and Shun Cobalt), I find unpleasant to sharpen on anything but diamond/cbn. The cheap ones feel ragged and crappy and resistant, and the Globals/Shun Cobalts feel numb and a bit slippery. Diamond goes a long way to mitigating this; it seems to get a nice bitey foothold in the steel, and make for a more normal sharpening experience.
 
chalby said:
While it might be true in specific examples, that advise is over-simplified to the point of being useless.

1. "Japanese stones" are mostly ceramic for example Naniwa and Shapton and are great for a wide range of stainless and carbon steels.
2. Many stainless steels do not need diamond stones, in fact only the high end PM steels with high carbide volume and/or very high hardness would need diamond.
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It is well known that high carbon steel can take a finer edge than stainless. For serious sharpening the differences between carbon and stainless necessitate different materials and techniques.

My Japanese woodworking tools (high carbon) are sharpened on Japanese water stones. The Kanna (planes) will take a continuous < .001” shaving from the wood surface while planing against the grain. This is not just sharp, it is also technique in sharpening, angle of the single bevel and angle of blade in the body, shaping of the wood plane body, seating and adjustment of the back blade, and in use of the tool itself.

I have never been able to get this kind of edge with diamond stones. Maybe my diamond isn’t fine enough. I’d like to try Shapton's glass stones but have no need to as my system (stones acquired during Japanese woodworking apprenticeship) works perfectly.

These same stones (coarse composite and natural finishing) struggle to put an edge on a stainless knife. A porcelain coffee mug does a much better job, leaving a somewhat toothy edge that is good for all around use.

For stainless knives I use diamond and strop. I have a production high carbon Japanese paring knife that is a joy to use and gets much, much sharper (and much more easily) than a handmade stainless supersteel knife, but not with diamond stones.

Note that the Japanese woodworking tools are finished to a mirror polish and that their laminated construction is multifold. Both the brittle high carbon cutting edge and the soft steel backing are produced with the traditional forged folding process, creating directional microcrystalline layers parallel to the edge. This functional - not decorative - layering creates a fundamentally different tool from stainless forging processes.

A highly polished slicing edge is delicate and only good for specific uses. Thus a purpose for every tool and a tool for every purpose, including sharpening, which ideally should match the tool being sharpened and the use to which it is put.
 
I much prefer oil stones with my woodworking tools, I have no supersteel woodworking blades, most of us don't.

I don't have to worry about stones freezing and cracking out in the shop, tools rusting or constantly flattening stones, upkeep is next to nothing.

Additionally a Washita is pretty much a one stone solution for everyday sharpening because they have a wide working range through varying pressure that only a progression of synthetic water stones can match and edges are sharper off of a stone that isn't shedding grit like so many synthetic water stones do.

That kind of whittles down any difference in cutting speed, in fact the Washita is a quicker solution for me.

At about 8:15 in this gentleman demonstrates this...

 
UncleBoots said:
All true. But I enjoy the feel of sharpening, and some kitchen knife stainless steels (cheap ones, plus Global and Shun Cobalt), I find unpleasant to sharpen on anything but diamond/cbn. The cheap ones feel ragged and crappy and resistant, and the Globals/Shun Cobalts feel numb and a bit slippery. Diamond goes a long way to mitigating this; it seems to get a nice bitey foothold in the steel, and make for a more normal sharpening experience.
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Use what you like if that works for you. Personally I don't use diamond(not that you couldn't) on any basic stainless steels and always get fantastic edges on similar knives.

N nhobo

As you say, woodworking tools are generally finished to a mirror polish which diamonds don't do well, especially if you are talking about diamond plate.

Diamond plate and strop will no doubt give you a great toothy edge for stainless knives, but it is just one way of sharpening. I sharpen my stainless knives on Japanese stones and get great results. Diamond is not superior in any practical way for basic stainless steels.
 
Ok, so I've been obsessively reading and considering your input. I am looking for a good setup to sharpen woodworking chisels in addition to knives, and I want low maintenance (splash and go) without spending an arm and a leg. I think I'm ready to bail on natural stones.

So far I've ordered an Atoma 140 for course grit and flattening.

As I understand, for knives alone, I'd probably be solid with something like a Shapton Glass 500 and a Shapton Pro 2000. But for chisels, should I be going to a higher grit? I've got my eye on the Kitayama 8000. Is it too big a jump to go from the SP 2000 to the Kit 8k? If so, what do you like in between for splash and go?

(Rika 5000 gets great reviews but is a soaker. SG is an option, just not sure I'm sold on glass. Chosera 800 and 3000 get great reviews and would bridge to the 8k ok I think, but they seem a bit higher maintenance and quite a bit more expensive.)

Anyway, chisels: SG 500 > SP 2000 > Kit 8000 going to work well? Other advice?

Thanks!
 
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Truesome said:
Ok, so I've been obsessively reading and considering your input. I am looking for a good setup to sharpen woodworking chisels in addition to knives, and I want low maintenance (splash and go) without spending an arm and a leg. I think I'm ready to bail on natural stones.

So far I've ordered an Atoma 140 for course grit and flattening.

As I understand, for knives alone, I'd probably be solid with something like a Shapton Glass 500 and a Shapton Pro 2000. But for chisels, should I be going to a higher grit? I've got my eye on the Kitayama 8000. Is it too big a jump to go from the SP 2000 to the Kit 8k? If so, what do you like in between for splash and go?

(Rika 5000 gets great reviews but is a soaker. SG is an option, just not sure I'm sold on glass. Chosera 800 and 3000 get great reviews and would bridge to the 8k ok I think, but they seem a bit higher maintenance and quite a bit more expensive.)

Anyway, chisels: SG 500 > SP 2000 > Kit 8000 going to work well? Other advice?

Thanks!
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I was watching a video last week from a person sharpening their chisel with 150 grit sand paper and black compound on a piece of wood. He was getting it really sharp using that combo.

 
Hot take, but if you're not proficient in free-hand, You should focus on technique first before dumping a bunch of money on stones. Even the best stones won't make you better. Start out cheap with a double sided 8x2 Crystolon (about $30). It's a decent versatile beginner stone as it provides a lot of feedback and doesn't mind a heavy hand. If you can get a good consistent edge with that stone, then you can move onto the fancier stuff.
 
Sharp Steel said:
I was watching a video last week from a person sharpening their chisel with 150 grit sand paper and black compound on a piece of wood. He was getting it really sharp using that combo.

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That video has me questioning why I would buy any of these stones, honestly haha.
 
jiggyfly16 said:
Hot take, but if you're not proficient in free-hand, You should focus on technique first before dumping a bunch of money on stones. Even the best stones won't make you better. Start out cheap with a double sided 8x2 Crystolon (about $30). It's a decent versatile beginner stone as it provides a lot of feedback and doesn't mind a heavy hand. If you can get a good consistent edge with that stone, then you can move onto the fancier stuff.
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Aren't those pretty coarse? What makes you say Crys over India stones? Or a soft Ark?
 
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