State of the state.....

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Hello All... Steven, from first glance it appears your have provided us another interesting platform to discuss the current state of custom knife making, and collecting.. I used the qualifier "first glance" because I need to spend much more time reading the discussion slowly to take it in.. I wanted to comment briefly however to let you know I appreciate you checking in on me. Bob and Martin also.. I really do miss being more active and hope to be able to participate more soon.. I do have some wonderful newer knives I would love to share with you all... My Best Regards, Rich
 
Like some, I too was pretty much completely out of the hobby for many years.

This is a good thread, and I'd like to respond in more detail at a later time, when I have time to organize my thoughts. Still haven't even gotten all of my hurricane shutters down!

But for now I'll say, and of course, these are only opinions...

If you're collecting knives to make money, you're doing it wrong. If you're buying what appeals to you (for whatever reason), even if others don't always agree, but only after doing some due diligence and educating yourself so as to get a reasonable measure of value for your money spent, then you're doing it right. And of course as with anything, don't spend money you can't afford to lose.

It certainly was a different hobby when I got the bug again fairly recently. Glorified Sebenzas selling for more than a nice Fisk or Hanson Bowie!?!

Things change, things go in or out of style.

Something that struck me recently was this. I befriended a fairly new collector. He's about 50, my approx. age, :), but new to knives, maybe he's been collecting higher end stuff for just a few years now.

One knife I didn't sell years back when I departed was a beautiful Damascus, pearl and gold Kaj Embretson double bolster lockback with an amazing 3 bar blade. To me, it's just a gorgeous, timeless knife. But is anything really timeless?

His reaction to it really shocked me. He said, wow, that's something right out of Alladin or Sinbad! I was speechless for a moment, which much like STeven, is a strange condition for me, :), then it hit me.

Things change. Things I thought were timeless, perhaps aren't. Or at least not to a changing world.

The bright side is, oddly, I'm finding a lot of newer stuff I really like. I even think the industrial vibe overbuilt knives have their place. Which again circles back to, buy what appeals to you with money you can afford to lose, and then, you'll never really lose.

Oh, and I'd ask a favor, when you see a nice Hanson Bowie listing for $1000, please PM me. :p
 
Probably shouldn't have had a big coffee at 11. :) But here I am...

I think I've read the entire thread. I'm not sure I saw the following point made.

The last 2 generations have grown up in an increasingly PC, anti gun, anti knife, anti weapon climate. Thanks to a liberal media, a somewhat liberal education system, endorsed by any and all liberal politicians, the younger kids today do not all view things like older folks did in the 50's, 60's and 70's.

When I was growing up in the 70's, most boys were into guns and knives. We drew pictures of them in art class at school. Pictures that would get us expelled and psychiatrically evaluated today. Today, kids for many reasons tend to daydream about the new iPhone, not the new knife or gun. Sure, some kids still do, but not like it used to be, thus, knife collecting in general has taken a hit I think. Less new collectors, more available knives than ever, at the click of a button. A recipe for prices to fall overall.
 
Megalobyte said:
Probably shouldn't have had a big coffee at 11. :) But here I am...

I think I've read the entire thread. I'm not sure I saw the following point made.

The last 2 generations have grown up in an increasingly PC, anti gun, anti knife, anti weapon climate. Thanks to a liberal media, a somewhat liberal education system, endorsed by any and all liberal politicians, the younger kids today do not all view things like older folks did in the 50's, 60's and 70's.

When I was growing up in the 70's, most boys were into guns and knives. We drew pictures of them in art class at school. Pictures that would get us expelled and psychiatrically evaluated today. Today, kids for many reasons tend to daydream about the new iPhone, not the new knife or gun. Sure, some kids still do, but not like it used to be, thus, knife collecting in general has taken a hit I think. Less new collectors, more available knives than ever, at the click of a button. A recipe for prices to fall overall.
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Interesting post!

As a counterpoint . . . do you have any kids who play video games? It seems that a LOT of the video games these kids play involve combat of some type . . . World of Warcraft; Doom; Call of Duty; Street Fighter; Assassin's Creed . . . and my daughter's favorite: Fallout (particularly Fallout 4). Yeah, the girls are playing these games in big numbers. Plenty of guns and knives! LOL!

I always thought that the military buildup for the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan fueled a demand for "tactical" knives. Even (especially?) among young men who were not in the service. Now that the services are drawing down and active combat has diminished to a trickle . . . I wonder if that will affect that market.

OT: when I was a kid, during free time all the boys used to draw two things and pretty much only two things: chopper motorcycles, and pictures of battle scenes . . . tanks and essentially stick figure soldiers firing on each other over hills and through fields, with maybe some aircraft . . . stuff like that. I wonder what would happen at my daughter's school if they caught someone doing that today. I do not think it would go over too well.
 
If you're collecting knives to make money, then start buying machine guns instead.

Seriously

Fully transferable Class 3 firearms in the USA have a scarcity created by law.

Values only go up.
 
Lol count you on the sauce tonight dredging up this old post? Its a good read nonetheless. And yeah class 3 guns here in the states are like land, you aint getting any more. Which is a real bummer because a lot of nice stuff has come out since '85... Though I think STeven would have a hard time investing in them in California :D

-Clint
 
Megalobyte said:
If you're collecting knives to make money, you're doing it wrong. If you're buying what appeals to you (for whatever reason), even if others don't always agree, but only after doing some due diligence and educating yourself so as to get a reasonable measure of value for your money spent, then you're doing it right.
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I don't agree as you can only buy what appeals to you and still make money. I've been buying/enjoying/selling custom knives for years and have just about always made money on my knives when selling them.
I clear up funds for new knives, antique Winchesters or Corvette purchases, and the new buyers are very happy with their great new knives. Everyone wins!
 
I am curious as to what the is the general opinion of the "state of the market" is today vs last September

It is clear that many classes of collectibles have struggled recently (art, cars, watches) . Currency issues, political changes and not insignificantly a crackdown on corruption (i.e. China) has affected some of those areas more than others.
 
bandaidman said:
I am curious as to what the is the general opinion of the "state of the market" is today vs last September

It is clear that many classes of collectibles have struggled recently (art, cars, watches) . Currency issues, political changes and not insignificantly a crackdown on corruption (i.e. China) has affected some of those areas more than others.
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My opinion is . . .

the rent is too damn high.




Translation: prices on the kinds of knives that I like do not seem to be going down. So either someone is buying them, or their owners are happy to sit on them.
 
Not necessarily "happy" to sit on them, but unwilling to take a bath. This is scared money at play.

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson
 
Furthermore, Ken, ,my feeling is that because this IS scared money at play(not always, but with those bigger ticket items, more often than not).....that when the market keeps constricting, the first couple "leaders" that do move with a willingness to take a small financial hit, will cause others to fall in as well....eventually driving the prices down to what they would have been "naturally"....without wholesale speculation.

For example, I saw the Tashi Barucha/Reate collaboration "Future" knife selling for $900.00 and up. This is a factory made knife from China. IMO, should not cost any more than $400.00, and that is pushing it....but the fanboys bought into it, and figured they could make a big profit flipping, not realizing that this is maxed out. Wouldn't be surprised if they eventually sell quietly at the $400.00 and below price point.

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson
 
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I don't know much about the "Future" knife as that is not in the space I play in. What was/is the MSRP? I think that David Deng is really pushing the limit on those Reale knives - I would like to handle one of the Steelcraft Mini Bodegas, which seem to have been well received. But even those are going for just north of $400 and to me, that is a helluva lot for a Chinese factory knife (not even "mid-tech") - especially with only a 3 inch blade and fairly pedestrian steel. But that's just me, and I'll leave the truly informed opinions on all of that to Jim Skelton and his fanboys. :rolleyes:

I was thinking more about the custom and handmade knives to which this subforum is dedicated. And even more, the kinds of knives you see in the secondary market on sites like Shindler's, Donato's, Strauss', Dave Harvey's, Carlos Lopez's site.

You rarely ever see knives there (or elsewhere) from many of the guys I consider to be top forged makers - Kyle Royer, Jason Knight, Ron Newton, Mike Quesenberry, etc. Maybe you see an occasional Fuegen (usually a push dagger) or Fisk (usually a Sendero) or once in a blue moon even a Hancock. Usually not their best pieces and . . . the rent is still too damn high (LOL). You do see quite a few knives from folks at the very high end like Lake, Walker, Loerchner (Wolf and Elizabeth), and the top Europeans . . . Esposito, Corrado, Silvestrelli, both Fogarizzus, Bennica, Kressler . . . and some other high end US makers like Matt Lerch and Ken Steigerwalt and some others . . . and lots of high priced engraved pieces - especially heavily embellished knives made by Osborne and Kious.

But from the looks of things (which admittedly can be deceiving), the prices are not coming down on these pieces.

Now does this represent folks who are happy with what they own? Or scared money? Hard for me to say which. Regardless, it seems to me that this has to be good news for the makers whose knives are scarce in the secondary market and/or being offered at high prices.

Anyway, that was what I meant by my post about the "state of the state."
 
Economy is doing good. People aren't "scared" they just are keeping what custom knives they like. I agree, I must have missed the addition of over-priced factory knives to this forum.
 
The Virginian said:
I don't know much about the "Future" knife as that is not in the space I play in. What was/is the MSRP? I think that David Deng is really pushing the limit on those Reale knives - I would like to handle one of the Steelcraft Mini Bodegas, which seem to have been well received. But even those are going for just north of $400 and to me, that is a helluva lot for a Chinese factory knife (not even "mid-tech") - especially with only a 3 inch blade and fairly pedestrian steel. But that's just me, and I'll leave the truly informed opinions on all of that to Jim Skelton and his fanboys. :rolleyes:

I was thinking more about the custom and handmade knives to which this subforum is dedicated. And even more, the kinds of knives you see in the secondary market on sites like Shindler's, Donato's, Strauss', Dave Harvey's, Carlos Lopez's site.

You rarely ever see knives there (or elsewhere) from many of the guys I consider to be top forged makers - Kyle Royer, Jason Knight, Ron Newton, Mike Quesenberry, etc. Maybe you see an occasional Fuegen (usually a push dagger) or Fisk (usually a Sendero) or once in a blue moon even a Hancock. Usually not their best pieces and . . . the rent is still too damn high (LOL). You do see quite a few knives from folks at the very high end like Lake, Walker, Loerchner (Wolf and Elizabeth), and the top Europeans . . . Esposito, Corrado, Silvestrelli, both Fogarizzus, Bennica, Kressler . . . and some other high end US makers like Matt Lerch and Ken Steigerwalt and some others . . . and lots of high priced engraved pieces - especially heavily embellished knives made by Osborne and Kious.

But from the looks of things (which admittedly can be deceiving), the prices are not coming down on these pieces.

Now does this represent folks who are happy with what they own? Or scared money? Hard for me to say which. Regardless, it seems to me that this has to be good news for the makers whose knives are scarce in the secondary market and/or being offered at high prices.

Anyway, that was what I meant by my post about the "state of the state."
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Sorry if this is completely off topic, haven't really been following...
They get em sometimes but through word of mouth- usually sell them after a few phone calls before they make it to the website. I've purchased a few like this. =) Same with some knives under the table at shows. Its nice when dealers get to know your taste. Now back to originally scheduled programming!
 
Jon Brand said:
Sorry if this is completely off topic, haven't really been following...
They get em sometimes but through word of mouth- usually sell them after a few phone calls before they make it to the website. I've purchased a few like this. =) Same with some knives under the table at shows. Its nice when dealers get to know your taste. Now back to originally scheduled programming!
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"They get em sometimes but through word of mouth- usually sell them after a few phone calls before they make it to the website."

Yep. They never even make it to the sites because the demand is there. That is the "state of the the state!"
 
And face it, boys....knives are hot items on Instagram. Unfortunately forums aren't what they used to be...or shows...or maybe even dealers for that matter. Imo, the marketing has shifted to a less easily tracked medium. I also think the "kids" are being reached via new medium. This demographic is probably more comfortable buying without having met the maker at a show...and it's more convenient to track a favorite maker's work on Instagram than a forum.
 
"This demographic is probably more comfortable buying without having met the maker at a show..."
I get what you're saying and its probably true, but where's the fun in that? For me, getting to know the makers is what its all about. I haven't bought a knife from a maker I didn't know in years. Maybe I'm limiting my options but collecting works from makers you know, trust and respect is more important than just acquiring something everyone else is hyping on social media. Not suggesting makers should limit sales to those they meet, as that is not feasible, but for me I enjoy going to shows and meeting makers first. Probably makes me old and not part of the demographic to which you are referring.
 
I know what you mean, Mark. It's unfortunate but I think this is the new reality. I personally would hate to see the knife show become a dinosaur. Perhaps as the new collectors mature they will appreciate the personal contact available at the knife show...we can only hope and speculate. My point is that there has been a shift in marketing methods and sales which may not be visible to those who aren't involved.
 
The Virginian said:
You rarely ever see knives there (or elsewhere) from many of the guys I consider to be top forged makers - Kyle Royer, Jason Knight, Ron Newton, Mike Quesenberry, etc. Maybe you see an occasional Fuegen (usually a push dagger) or Fisk (usually a Sendero) or once in a blue moon even a Hancock. Usually not their best pieces
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I think one reason you may not see the makers "best pieces" is because they don't want to give the discount dealers want....especially on the high end pieces. We gotta make knives for love or money and if we don't love the dealer that just don't leave much reason to sell a high end knife to them ;)
 
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