State of the state.....

[kevin (theprofessor)]

any maker chasing the trend is never goingto make it. if you are going to ride the wave you have to get in front of the curve

I think (and hope) Butch nailed it.

I personally am always trying to cultivate my niche market (real swords to accompany Chinese martial arts, and hunters and skinners for the boys and girls back home in Texas).

I have realized that making on spec works better for me than taking orders. It takes me 4 or 5 months to make a pattern welded sword and all the trimmings (sheath included). People are NOT accustomed to waiting, and this causes problems. I WON'T rush my work, which means tension between me and the customer, sometimes. That isn't good.

So, if you know what people are going to want from you, make it on spec. I have never made a sword, and only one knife, that did not sell. Identify a niche that you can fit.

My friends Matt Gregory and Ben RT exemplify this. Plus, they are great guys.

 

[Kevin Wilkins]

I'm on both FB and Instagram but came to them as marketing tools only in the last year or so. (I've been on FB as a private person for quite a while but decided I wanted to keep that privat as a platform for keeping in touch with friends so I created a business page for marketing my knives and communicating with customers.)

No doubt both IG and FB are hammering all the knife forums hard for readership and ad money.

I see a real decline in Collectors in just about every category I know about. Younger "collectors" of anything seem to be scarce – except maybe of smart phones and electronic gadgets.

My parents were Collectors of Early American Pattern Glass for decades. When my Dad died a couple of years back, we put the collection up for auction and it brought less money than it would have had it been sold 15 years ago. Why? Two reasons come to mind:

1. The glass collectors were all too old and dead or fading, so a lot of product was on the market being offered to a shrinking market.

2. The Internet. Once upon a time The Hunt was a lot of what collecting was about. Going to shows, scanning trade publications for ads, etc. Now, get online and find just about anything "rare" in ten minutes. It's only about the price, not the Hunt. This is really true in the rare book trade, too.

I've participated in the Knife market since the first days of rec.newsgroups way back before I started making and then selling my own knives. The Internet made possible the multi-million $ handmade knife industry as it has made many other industries possible and changed retailing forever. When I began selling knives I made almost 20 years ago, the net gave me access to a giant pool of consumers I would never had been able to reach with conventional sales and marketing.

Then the Knife Shows took off big time; then Makers had to have websites; then the Forums with Makers' own sub-forums, etc. and things are still changing as Social Media tries to find ways to Make Money and justify the exorbitant value their stock prices give their companies.

Will social media be where it all ends? No, I doubt it. Right now IG and FB are made to order for BS and rip-off artists who can operate with impunity. At least on the forums ripped off customers have Feedback forums to get the word out. Not on IG or FB. I bet something will change there though and soon.

The River just keeps flowing and we have to innovate and adapt. When I came out with kitchen knives over 10 years ago, some folks at knife shows snickered. That stopped quite a while back.

Keep innovating!

 

[Dawkind]

An 'innovation' I have seen lately are all of the different 'ways to vie for a knife'.

As if all of the Lotteries, Open Bids, Closed Bids, first to post a picture of this, etc., weren't enough, I saw the latest in what I perceive as getting greedy if a Maker has many 'Fanboys'.....$50 Raffle Tickets and "buy this extraneous item for $$$$'s and you get entered to be able to buy the knife if you're picked"....woohoo, more BS.

Now a Maker with a 'following' can get $4K-$5K for an $800 knife....and I get a patch, decal, poster, etc. even if I'm not 'the winner', if I'd even consider such a folly, which ain't never gonna happen.

I guess this is the new Marketing ploy and like the others it just turns me off to not even consider a Maker that does that, not interested at any price.

Call me old fashioned but I just am not a Game Player and refuse to be.

I got onto FB two years ago at the behest of a few friends with a specific goal in mind, not knowing what I was going to expose myself to....many times I have threatened to dump my account but there are a number of family members and friends I keep up with that I otherwise probably wouldn't....I guess it's good for that.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Lycosa]

Thanks for the post, Dudley.
It's sheer madness and stupid is everywhere these days.
And yes, fb is not a complete waste. Silver linings only.
rolf

 

[braillediver]

Thanks Dudley spot on. For me the connection to the Maker is a huge part of the custom knife scene. Some have integrity and are impeccable. Others- why bother and as you say "ain't never gonna happen".

A couple of years ago didn't some Makers try to setup a direct marketing website to promote their custom knives? I think it started but didn't go anywhere.

 

[Charlie Mike]

The best part about being a knifemaker is the relationships I build along with the knife. I'd guess that 95% of my sales are custom orders... 2/3 of my buyers Re repeat customers. I have only seen one of my knives for resale over the last 2 years. People really love their CMFTW.

 

[Kohai999]

I'm on both FB and Instagram but came to them as marketing tools only in the last year or so. (I've been on FB as a private person for quite a while but decided I wanted to keep that privat as a platform for keeping in touch with friends so I created a business page for marketing my knives and communicating with customers.)

No doubt both IG and FB are hammering all the knife forums hard for readership and ad money.

I see a real decline in Collectors in just about every category I know about. Younger "collectors" of anything seem to be scarce – except maybe of smart phones and electronic gadgets.

My parents were Collectors of Early American Pattern Glass for decades. When my Dad died a couple of years back, we put the collection up for auction and it brought less money than it would have had it been sold 15 years ago. Why? Two reasons come to mind:

1. The glass collectors were all too old and dead or fading, so a lot of product was on the market being offered to a shrinking market.

2. The Internet. Once upon a time The Hunt was a lot of what collecting was about. Going to shows, scanning trade publications for ads, etc. Now, get online and find just about anything "rare" in ten minutes. It's only about the price, not the Hunt. This is really true in the rare book trade, too.

I've participated in the Knife market since the first days of rec.newsgroups way back before I started making and then selling my own knives. The Internet made possible the multi-million $ handmade knife industry as it has made many other industries possible and changed retailing forever. When I began selling knives I made almost 20 years ago, the net gave me access to a giant pool of consumers I would never had been able to reach with conventional sales and marketing.

Then the Knife Shows took off big time; then Makers had to have websites; then the Forums with Makers' own sub-forums, etc. and things are still changing as Social Media tries to find ways to Make Money and justify the exorbitant value their stock prices give their companies.

Will social media be where it all ends? No, I doubt it. Right now IG and FB are made to order for BS and rip-off artists who can operate with impunity. At least on the forums ripped off customers have Feedback forums to get the word out. Not on IG or FB. I bet something will change there though and soon.

The River just keeps flowing and we have to innovate and adapt. When I came out with kitchen knives over 10 years ago, some folks at knife shows snickered. That stopped quite a while back.

Keep innovating!

I really liked your post Kevin. Being that both you and Derrick Wulf are in Germany, your posts bookend nicely and offer a perspective that is unique for this discussion and refreshing.

This thread was started, as I have stated a few times, with a broad perspective on what is happening in the custom and handmade market. My focus is obviously on the US because I understand this market more than I do one focused on international trends/viewpoints.

If nobody has noticed, fellow collectors are saying "yeah, I've noticed a downturn".....and many makers are saying "I have more business than ever". I'm sure that both are true depending upon viewpoint and perspective.

It's been a fine discussion, with limited conflict and a wide range of viewpoints, which is what we hope for in a best case scenario. Hopefully it is beneficial to those considering entering the knife world and those already active.

If I can offer one last observation that would distill my point. Custom/handmade knives are something often purchased from a very emotional place. Involve your brain in thinking about a potential purchase LONG TERM....as in will you love the knife as much in 20 years as you do now, is the purchase being made with discretionary income and what purpose does the purchase serve? Do that, and you will likely not experience buyer's remorse and have a significantly more pleasant experience in the knife world.

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson

 

[Charlie Mike]

That brings up another point. My knives are purchased by people who use/abuse them. Definitely not collectors in the traditional sense.

 

[dcv69]

I’m going to put a slightly different perspective on this, as a UK based collector who has gone through the classic steps of collecting, starting with tactical folders and ending with Forged ABS type fights and Bowies the reason my purchasing has declined is the lack of quality product to buy.
Let me explain, the majority of my collection came from 2 sources, Purveyors and my annual pilgrimage over to the Blade show. Over the years the purveyors have declined in number and more importantly the quantity and quality of product they have available, my original main supplier seems now to be some sort of junk yard sale room. The cost of airfares and hotels along with the indignity of passing through Atlanta airport has put a stop to Blade.
So where does this leave me, I’ve purchased knives directly from quite a few makers here on BF but these are often long term orders. What’s missing is the availability of quality available product for the Impulse buy…
Makers own website, BF, Facebook, Instagram… I don’t even know what Instagram is! If makers aren’t getting the sales they need perhaps they need to address how they are marketing their product, if there aren’t new collectors coming through then they need to use a medium that will get through to the generation that are spending.
Just some quick thoughts.

 

[Knifeologist]

What a great thread! I have had this same discussion so many times with so many people but never tire of it as I love the knives/hobby/industry/people involved. Knives have been a big part of my life for many years. Really having fun reading this, many excellent observations and points of view presented. Nothing to add as I agree with much of what has been stated and just want to say thanks to all that are contributing.

P.S. Steven, thanks for getting this one started.

 

[Calhoon]

Burt Foster IMO has really nailed it. Every now and again I receive an email, along with many other collectors that have signed up. Burt is one of the best. His web site is extremely well done. When I get his email I can usually go after which ever of several knives he has posted up for sale, if I am so inclined. Everyone receiving an email is offered the same opportunity. I have no idea how many makers are doing a similar thing to what Burt is. Burt sells out everything he posts.
He is deftly using the medium to further his art. Great thread STeven! Lots of pertinent observations. I'm in the same boat as a lot of other 'older' collectors of mostly ABS knives and have been wondering for a long time just what's been going on. Now I have a much better understanding.

 

[The Amazing Virginian]

If you buy knives that you like as a beginning collector/user....and get bad knives, or find that as you develop knowledge and experience and don't like these knives anymore and can't sell them, not only will you experience true disappointment, but you just might not be involved in collecting or using handmade or custom knives anymore. This happens.....a lot.

. . .

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson

Bad knives . . . that is a real problem. But what to do? What does the MS stamp on a blade mean? Is it any assurance of quality . . . at all? I do not think so. The fact that someone made five knives that passed ABS muster in 1993 does not mean that knife he is selling on his table in 2016 is of that same quality . . . or even any good at all. There are several things that the ABS could do to address this if they wanted. But they do not seem to believe that it is in their interest.

I'm not a collector, so I'm not sure if anyone cares about my thoughts, but do I have some thoughts. Hopefully I don't offend anyone.

Some people collect things that I consider to have very little intrinsic value, and pay dearly for them. Baseball cards come to mind.

If I were a collector, and had a big budget, I would be attracted to items of real worth that represent some aspect of human achievement. I understand why people collect cars. They're beautiful, interesting and the engineering and design that go into them makes me proud of the human race. So I understand the mindset of a person who acquires a McLaren F1 and then never drives it. It's what that car represents.

I expect that most people here are familiar with the SR71 Blackbird. In many ways it represents the pinnacle of human achievement (at the time) in speed, materials science, mechanical and aeronautical engineering, and it's just so beautiful to look at. I'm sure it would rank pretty high on some people in this worlds list of holy grail collectables, if one were available and money were no object.

But, most folks aren't going to be accumulating a lot of high end cars and aircraft. And this is what's interesting about high end knives. Here is a thing that normal people can acquire. I will never own a Bugatti Veyron, but I can (and do!) own a Cashen damascus fighter. I understand the design, metallurgy and construction and am therefor able to admire it. I know the maker and I admire him. Here is a thing, that I was able to acquire, that in my mind is pretty close to the pinnacle of what is humanly possible for an object of its sort to be. And it's cool and it's beautiful. And a schlup like me was able to acquire it. :thumbup:

IMO, what makes it beautiful isn't embellishment or even fit and finish. It's the form and the knowledge in my mind about its performance and capabilities. I love it for how it looks, and I love it for the engineering it represents. I expect there are many collectors drawn to work like that.


Personally, I don't generally think of knives as being art. Not usually anyways. There are some makers, Tai Goo for example, who make art work and use knives as their medium. But makers like that are uncommon. What I usually see are fancy pieces with very good fit and finish and often highly detailed ornamentation. There's nothing wrong with that, and I understand why people admire the work. But, when one considers the SR71 actually had pretty bad fit and finish and no ornamentation at all, one can see the other end of the spectrum where an object can be admired for what it actually is, rather than how fancy and decorated its visible surfaces are.


And this brings me to my point: I walk around a knife show and I look at the collectable knives. They're "functional art", but in the real world the designs often aren't very optimal for real use, the materials and heat treat are probably sometimes pretty mediocre, and they often have a fairly useless cutting edge, so they're not particularly functional, and IMO they're usually not great pure art either. I understand why they appeal to people because they're pretty and they're cool and it takes a lot of skill to execute a good one. I'm not trying to disparage those who make them or collect them. It certainly makes more sense to me to collect than something like expensive old baseball cards. But, to me and my own tastes, many of the collectable knives have less appeal than modern well executed cutting pieces that are made with careful consideration for cutting performance, metallurgy and materials and ergonomics. Which is more beautiful, an intricate and embellished baroque cathedral, or an SR71? The answer, I think, is just a matter of opinion. I think both views are valid.



I know: too long didn't read....

I read. Nice post.

I do find artistry in knives. I also find craftsmanship. It is magic when I find both at once. And in some cases, such as pieces by Scagel, Loveless, Moran, Schmidt and others . . . there is also an historical value.

BTW, I love SR-71s, we have one a few miles from here in the Udvar-Hazy museum and my dad worked at Pratt on those J58 engines . . . but I'm taking the Sistine Chapel every time.

Not to drift too far off track:

Are CPK's a "gateway drug" to finer craftsmanship and a higher understanding of knives which will expand and sustain the custom knife market? Or are they the high end for the collector who has every Spyderco PM2 Sprint Run?

This thread highlights what I was saying:
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/1414006-Besides-CPK-knives-whaddaya-like/page2

Dawkind and Bentzer are the exceptions in that fanbase.

You can add me to that. I also worship at the Church of Nathan the Machinest.

I know the reason I'm buying Nathan's knives and you obviously don't understand what it is I am seeing. And I won't bother to explain, since you mispelled my name, LOL.

Separate from that, I do find it interesting that tacticals (all of which are pretty much folders, right?) are part of the correction being discussed, but CPK's fixed blades are going in quite the opposite direction - in terms of the number of customers rising, certainly not the pricing. This has no bearing on my previous statement, but IMHO, the rise in tacticals took a chunk of interest out of custom fixed blades. Shouldn't one think that the interest now being expressed in a totally fixed blade maker be a positive?

If the generation that typically roams this room keeps referring to younger collectors of knives in derogatory terms, do you think that helps any to narrow the divide that already separates the two generations? Maybe I should post a link of this thread into a new thread in the CPK subforum so the generation who our generation has screwed can see what's being said about them. Nah, that's inappropriate, kinda like taking potshots at names and stuff ya don't really know enough about .

I can show you a dagger by Nathan Carothers that is so absolutely perfect in every way that I would challenge 99% of living custom makers to equal it. And I know my daggers. And I know his customers. They would LOVE one just like it. And one day, it will be finally understood that the machining skills needed to produce that dagger are as artfully practiced as you would find with the work of custom knifemakers in this forum right now.


END OF SERMON

Well stated. In fact, I see an element of what Nathan does as being a continuation of the spirit of Bob Loveless. There will never be another Loveless, because the time and place that created him does not exist. There is no problem anymore finding high quality blade steels or decent working knives. But what I see Nathan doing is creating designs and manufacturing techniques to produce incredibly functional knives at affordable prices. A friend of mine says about his knives that they are all the knife you ever need. And they really are.

Going back to demographics and economics, I'd like to make a few very important points.

First, demographics are the single most important driver of major secular macro-economic trends. Period.

Second, we are now at a point where a combination of demographic shifts and global debt levels will spell ruin for many businesses, individuals, economies and governments over the coming decades. Period.

Global debt levels (consumer debt, corporate debt, and government debt) have risen to unsustainable levels, while the rate of growth in the number of new workers and new consumers is declining rapidly. Productivity has also fallen.

In the countries most acutely impacted by these demographic and debt issues, some or all of the following must occur:
-Taxes must rise substantially in order to service the rising debts and cover growing entitlement costs
-Government expenditures must decline meaningfully - this will include salaries, healthcare, and pension benefits for government employees and dependents
-Inflation must rise, so as to erode the value of outstanding debts
-Governments must default on at least some of their obligations (state and local government bonds, state and local government pension funds, social security perhaps?)

Again, some or all of the above must occur. This is not opinion but a mathematical certainty. Some of it is occurring now, but there will be far, far more to come. The spending, saving,and investment habits of many informed consumers are already beginning to adapt to this reality, but many more still don't fully understand the true implications of above 100% debt to GDP ratios amid aging populations and slowing productivity growth. Not to sound alarmist, but in some places it will spell complete economic collapse (see Venezuela, Greece, and Cyprus... Puerto Rico, Illinois, and many others are quickly on the way...)

Shoot, I have to run to a meeting. More later...

I don't know about all that. I have been hearing a lot of that same thing for more than 20 years now and the apocalypse seems no closer.

I am also skeptical of predictions which are supposed to pan out over time periods of "decades." There is just way too much unpredictability for that. Just a few decades ago we were in a seemingly unending Cold War. Then we weren't. And now . . . maybe we are again? 20 years ago, NO ONE was predicting the kind of post 9/11 society we have now. Three or four decades ago . . . no one really foresaw the types of technological changes that affect all of our lives on a daily basis.

I guess time will tell, but I tend to think we have no idea what life will be like "over the coming decades." JMHO.

 

[The Amazing Virginian]

STeven, I need to point out one aspect which is playing a direct role in this thread's (your?) perception of 'State of the State'.

You claim you aren't involved in Facebook OR Instagram social media. For reasons, I understand. No for everyone. But it can't be dismissed.

The HOWEVER, is that there are transactions and sales happening WAY MORE than you are aware, and that dealer websites are not the only barometer of sales.

These 'suckers' (Lorien's term) are happily bypassing the middlemen and directly creating their own network of trade. Like it or don't, there is a TON of $$$ being processed privately.

Unless this is factored in it's not a truly accurate SoS.

I don't disagree that there is overpricing, yet I do state there is energy and abundant interest in dress tacticals, which is, because of the growth nature of IG and FB, reaching new audiences. It's possibly a bit of a pyramid thing, but that's ALSO what happening.

Years ago, I asked Mace Vitale why he wasn't posting on BF so much. He then stated, that 90% of the interest in his work and sales was through FB. No time to post in an area where it didn't support him as much.

There are aspects of this conversation which remind me of a bunch of guys down at the VFW hall, grousing why there isn't the vibrant crowd there anymore. We're a bunch of OLD FARTS in an outdated medium (Which I still love. )

I'm not an authority, and you can poke many holes in my words, but I wanted to say this as another viewpoint.

Coop

I appreciated your post, Coop (especially the parts which I bolded).

The thread wasn't started to call fire, Kumbaya Coop, it was started to say that I smell smoke and let's discuss it.

One thing that this s/f does not have is a lot of Bromancing Fanboys sharing The Love, and that tends to color the discussion.

You've been pointed in your last two responses, and now it is time for some of that back.

You can(and do) make money on every facet of the knife game, makers, dealers and collectors alike.

Calling for some serious assessment of money spent on knives AND related products to our industry and community is not in your best interest. It has been and remains in your best interest to be a positive cheerleader for this industry.....it does not necessarily work in my best interest.....as overall, I've tried to be a voice of reason more often than not....there is not a lot of financial gain in being a voice of reason.



What about when it isn't discretionary income? I spend RENT money on knives back when I was just starting out. I made it work out by working harder and hustling....but to LOSE money on deals back then(it happened, and doesn't need to be dragged over again, SEARCH works) was like getting kicked in the balls. It hurt, it was a wakeup and I didn't want to experience it a whole lot.



I would say that you have a tendency to be optomistic, and I think having a teenaged son and coaching rowing color your perception of the world to the rosier hue.

The sky isn't falling, but the indicators have shown a correction, my sources from within the industry confirm it, and I've shared that information here. I welcome your discussion and participation, as I do Lorien's...and everyone else's.

If you want information on how makers did at The Gathering, ask them.....I did. There is a post just started about the ICCE show, which should do well, and may have....not so much.

Blade is one show that I would expect to do well and if it starts dropping down, I know FOR SURE that things are gonna get tight for all of us.

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson

I am not sure that newer folks visiting here would understand what good friends you are with Coop to call him "Kumbaya Coop." It might be taken the wrong way and not convey a welcoming environment.

Did you ever think that not having kids and working at Home Depot might be coloring your perception of the world to a darker hue?

Kohai, you do have a stake in being chicken little, it gets you attention, which is your life blood in this small industry. Also it sounds like your having trouble selling some of your collection...despite your reputation as an astute collector.

Coop goes to a lot of shows, but you talk about faceless people who tell you about shows you didn't go to. Coop is a serious collector by any standards and we get to see his collection. By the nature of Coop's business, he talks to a lot of people on both sides of the table. The fact that he has a son and coaches a sport doesn't make him overly optimistic, it makes him normal. Why not back up your theories with the names and specifics of your facts?

Blade is the 50lb gorilla in the knife world, maybe taking some of the wind out of that show would be a good thing? The ICCE show has the opportunity to do that, but if collectors will wait for Blade...? I've never been to Blade, but from what I've been told it is a sea of all things knife, the ICCE is just for custom/handmade knives and right now it is equidistant from both coasts.

Many good points.

I really think you are missing what this is all about Ben. You have that perspective that "If the buyer is happy with my work, that is all that matters". It's a fairly short term perspective in the scheme of things.

The knife MARKET for custom knives is comprised of makers, collectors, dealers, magazine/book producers, material suppliers, photographers, sheath makers, case makers..........even if you live under a rock and do it all yourself, unless you smelt the steel and grow/manufacture the handle materials(Thunderstorm, anyone) you are a part of a much larger economy.

I'm not saying that this is the case, but if your present buyers are purchasing based purely on emotion and a connection with you, they could likely be the "suckers" that Lorien refers to in his above posts....and I agree with what he said because I have seen it, countless times.

You pay attention to your market(that is a big part of your job, and you do it well)

I pay attention to THE market, that is all that I can see. This includes frank and pointed conversations with dealers(Dave Ellis, Dan Delavan, Dan Favano, Mark Strauss, Dave Harvey, Les Robertson), makers(Larry Fuegen, Brian Nadeau, Harvey Dean, Tim Wright, Matt Diskin, Allen Elishewitz, Ernie Emerson), manufacturers who work with custom makers(Benchmade, Kershaw, Microtech, ProTech) other collectors who are ACTIVE(Bob Betzner, Dave Ellis, Adam Jacobs, Phil Lobred, Martin Reingold, Rich Slaughter)...and assorted folk who many have never heard of.

What I am saying is that you have YOUR experience, and I distill a lot of the lessons that I have personally learned, and filter them through a collective of experiences belonging to many that have more time, wisdom or smarts than I do.

At the end of it, this is a product. For me and many others, the relationship with the maker is very important, but THE most important relationship is with the knife. The knife lives on long after we do hopefully, and the path that it takes is as interesting a story as any other.

That's MY experience.

You might see the tail or the trunk, I try to see the whole elephant.....and it doesn't suit you any better than it does Coop to tell your potential buyers that they should maybe wait and see if you are still making knives in a year before they spend their money.

The Market is full of "Insert Name Here" Who? makers who did exceptional work, may have been very successful during their time, and now, even seasoned dealers and collectors have no idea who they are/were and couldn't sell one of those knives that might have cost $750.00 at the time for $250.00. Who do you think takes it is the nuts when that happens? (Hint....not the maker).

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson

Martin is ACTIVE? AFAIK, he sold off almost all of his knives a couple of years ago and hasn't been collecting new knives since then. But I suppose I could be wrong.

At the ICCE show there were more kitchen knives than last year. More than one was pretty looking, but the maker didn't really understand functional design. A significant number could have made better designs just by paying attention to classic manufacturer's designs. More than one maker touted how much his wife liked his kitchen knives, but no maker named any restuarant's chef that used his knives or that he worked out his design with. There's a lot of room in that market for better design and better marketing.

I am not sure you are going to find much better marketing that what Bob Kramer has done. Maybe not too much in the way of better design, either. JMHO.

Is this thread about knifemakers being able to sell knives, and where?

Or is it about the worth and value of fine cutlery, as a whole, and how it stands now and into the future as a potent thing to invest in or collect?

It is a moveable feast.

I’m going to put a slightly different perspective on this, as a UK based collector who has gone through the classic steps of collecting, starting with tactical folders and ending with Forged ABS type fights and Bowies the reason my purchasing has declined is the lack of quality product to buy.
Let me explain, the majority of my collection came from 2 sources, Purveyors and my annual pilgrimage over to the Blade show. Over the years the purveyors have declined in number and more importantly the quantity and quality of product they have available, my original main supplier seems now to be some sort of junk yard sale room. The cost of airfares and hotels along with the indignity of passing through Atlanta airport has put a stop to Blade.
So where does this leave me, I’ve purchased knives directly from quite a few makers here on BF but these are often long term orders. What’s missing is the availability of quality available product for the Impulse buy…
Makers own website, BF, Facebook, Instagram… I don’t even know what Instagram is! If makers aren’t getting the sales they need perhaps they need to address how they are marketing their product, if there aren’t new collectors coming through then they need to use a medium that will get through to the generation that are spending.
Just some quick thoughts.

Nice post. I can understand not liking Hartsfield (Atlanta), but if that is enough to keep you away from Blade then I advise avoiding Incheon (Seoul) and ESPECIALLY Beijing .

 

[Jon Brand]

I have found a mistake on almost every mastersmith knife ive owned. Exceptions in my current collection are my two john whites and four tim hancocks. THere are a few other random stand out peices but most of my favorite knives are not 100% perfect from side to side. Its ok as long as i love the knife and find it beautiful. But in my experience buyimg some other random mastersmith made knives from the more old school original ABS crew the knives are always showing uneven grinds and what not.

 

[Kohai999]

I am not sure that newer folks visiting here would understand what good friends you are with Coop to call him "Kumbaya Coop." It might be taken the wrong way and not convey a welcoming environment.

Did you ever think that not having kids and working at Home Depot might be coloring your perception of the world to a darker hue?

Don't really give a flying "eff" if the newer folks know that Jim Cooper and I are good friends.....they can read the thread and learn, or they can decide they don't want to read and learn. Ken, you need to understand this.

I grew up in upstate NY and then the Metropolitan area as an older teen, spent 4 years in the Navy, 10 years tattooing and another 7 working in the apparel industry. I have a very, very dark soul, a twisted sense of humor and a fair share of issues. What has happened in the last few years has IMPROVED my perception, not darkened it. Don't have kids because I am too selfish, and have watched too many close to me spawn and have never really felt that the progeny exceeded the quality of the parents, which is hopefully the point.

ACTIVE? AFAIK, he sold off almost all of his knives a couple of years ago and hasn't been collecting new knives since then. But I suppose I could be wrong.

He's active enough. Saw him at Solvang, he was fantastically informed about who is hot, who is not and what his preferences are. He's forgotten more about collecting premium knives than 10 of the new folks I have spoken with will understand in their lifetimes...and certainly worth mentioning.

Besides a pile of quoting, I'd be interested in your observations about the market as you view them.....while we have our differences and they may get worse before they get better, your thoughts are worthwhile.

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson

 

[ddd]

Don't really give a flying "eff" if the newer folks know that Jim Cooper and I are good friends.....they can read the thread and learn, or they can decide they don't want to read and learn. Ken, you need to understand this.

I grew up in upstate NY and then the Metropolitan area as an older teen, spent 4 years in the Navy, 10 years tattooing and another 7 working in the apparel industry. I have a very, very dark soul, a twisted sense of humor and a fair share of issues. What has happened in the last few years has IMPROVED my perception, not darkened it. Don't have kids because I am too selfish, and have watched too many close to me spawn and have never really felt that the progeny exceeded the quality of the parents, which is hopefully the point.

STeven Garsson

This Thread is exciting reading, Steven!
Especially when someone touches a nerve...

I hope that you will find time to work with me Steven,
on my next pretentious project sharing with me and the rest
of the knife world your vast knowledge of the modern knife scene...

Stay well, my friend
David Darom (ddd)

 

[martinr]

Time to clear up whether I'm "active". I sold my collection, everything, but not all at once, the last two knives to go were sold at the Solvang show 2 1/2 years ago. Sold for what I paid for them, a pair of engraved Italian made folders, $15,000 and sold to a dealer, they languished on a website for over a year at 15K and I doubt they sold for that. I still pay attention to the knife world, still like knives, attend shows like Solvang and the AKI, am friendly with some collectors and makers, and I pay attention to the websites. No instagram or facebook.
So the state of the state in my opinion. Prices are ridiculous. Dealers created unrealistic expectations of price increases and buyers fell for it. The idea that prices can only go up and never come down is prevalent and it's makers, dealers, and collectors that think this way. A Bogi Cobra with orange peel bolsters and G-10 for $4000? I could go on and on but a little article I read in the Wall Street Journal pretty much sums up my feelings. The article was about Polo shirts and how you needed a few for summer. Five choices and the most expensive was a designer label for over $500. So in the letters section a guy wrote "you would have to be an imbecile to pay $500 for a Polo shirt". I know people say something is worth what someone will pay for it but I don't agree, at some point it's just stupid regardless of how much you've got. And that's how I started to feel about knives, I could afford them, high prices didn't affect my life or keep me from doing something else that I needed the money for, I decided I could enjoy knives at shows without possessing them, and, I was sick of all the lies, BS, false optimism and shenanigans of the dealers.

 

[betzner]

Time to clear up whether I'm "active". I sold my collection, everything, but not all at once, the last two knives to go were sold at the Solvang show 2 1/2 years ago. Sold for what I paid for them, a pair of engraved Italian made folders, $15,000 and sold to a dealer, they languished on a website for over a year at 15K and I doubt they sold for that. I still pay attention to the knife world, still like knives, attend shows like Solvang and the AKI, am friendly with some collectors and makers, and I pay attention to the websites. No instagram or facebook.
So the state of the state in my opinion. Prices are ridiculous. Dealers created unrealistic expectations of price increases and buyers fell for it. The idea that prices can only go up and never come down is prevalent and it's makers, dealers, and collectors that think this way. A Bogi Cobra with orange peel bolsters and G-10 for $4000? I could go on and on but a little article I read in the Wall Street Journal pretty much sums up my feelings. The article was about Polo shirts and how you needed a few for summer. Five choices and the most expensive was a designer label for over $500. So in the letters section a guy wrote "you would have to be an imbecile to pay $500 for a Polo shirt". I know people say something is worth what someone will pay for it but I don't agree, at some point it's just stupid regardless of how much you've got. And that's how I started to feel about knives, I could afford them, high prices didn't affect my life or keep me from doing something else that I needed the money for, I decided I could enjoy knives at shows without possessing them, and, I was sick of all the lies, BS, false optimism and shenanigans of the dealers.

I feel the very same way, Martin. It was, by the way, good to see you at Solvang. Hey, Everyone started up-selling and no one quit. Screw that crap. If certain knives come down to an APPROPRIATE level, I'll buy. But it my opinion, it all falls back on the secondary market price-setters whose greed and expectations of ever-escalating prices has to a large part driven me away from purchasing. Makers who have tried to follow the ever-rising pricing trends with higher prices will not get any of my money. I've sold probably half of my collection over time, luckily before this hit to the secondary market, but am not about to sell the best pieces no matter the pricing.

And I've found that it can be just as gratifying chasing down a specially-handled CPK knife (Nathan the Machinist aka Nathan Carothers/Lorien Arnold collab) for both it's usefulness and for two other reasons, which I'll keep to myself. There is a reason CPK knives are sought after, but others must find out themselves.

To summarize, screw the maker or dealer who shows and/or charges outlandish pricing - unless he or the piece rise to the level of BW.

 

[ddd]

....I decided I could enjoy knives at shows without possessing them, and, I was sick of all the lies, BS, false optimism and shenanigans of the dealers.

You can also enjoy the best knives in the world again and again on the pages of my books,
as well as all the info on the maker, detailed descriptions of the knives and, in many cases,
the maker's personal input on his creations.....

All the best,
David Darom (ddd)

 

[2knife]

After spending many years collecting in the expensive genre of custom knives I discovered i can be just as happy with a small custom knife made for wood carving, usually priced around $30-$50 at wood carving shows. I use one for most light everyday tasks.
David