State of the state.....

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I know that if I wasn't currently taking orders, I'd be toast... punching a clock again for someone else. I make knives on spec still, to satisfy creativity, but oh man do they just sit there not selling sometimes. It can be hard to take! Especially when you keep marking them down, far below the hours they represent, and below what they are worth even in this market (always less than the hours put in anyway.)
I'm definitely having to bust ass to make it work. No complaints of course, I do love making knives. It is an asset to be able to make things that do not follow the trend of what everyone else makes, and stand out that way. That's what I try to do often, with spec knives.
There has been discussion about this in the Shoptalk forum as well... lots of makers not having much in the way of sales. It's easy to get a bit nervous, thinking about it too much- so I'm gonna go back to the shop now, put some tunes on, and sharpen a kukri I finished today.
 
I'm still a new maker, and I would say mostly an unknown. I usually have to sit on knives for quite a while these days before they sell.

I'm on Instagram as well, and I've noticed some of the same trends as other people here. Tactical folders still seem to sell quickly. As do tactical, compound grind, prybars. I don't understand that market myself, so I personally won't start catering to it.
 
Salem Straub said:
I know that if I wasn't currently taking orders, I'd be toast... punching a clock again for someone else. I make knives on spec still, to satisfy creativity, but oh man do they just sit there not selling sometimes. It can be hard to take! Especially when you keep marking them down, far below the hours they represent, and below what they are worth even in this market (always less than the hours put in anyway.)
I'm definitely having to bust ass to make it work. No complaints of course, I do love making knives. It is an asset to be able to make things that do not follow the trend of what everyone else makes, and stand out that way. That's what I try to do often, with spec knives.
There has been discussion about this in the Shoptalk forum as well... lots of makers not having much in the way of sales. It's easy to get a bit nervous, thinking about it too much- so I'm gonna go back to the shop now, put some tunes on, and sharpen a kukri I finished today.
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I, for one, have a great appreciation for what you are doing. Self employment is no cake walk, but a person can do it if they really want to. Simple physics.
Looking forward to some photos tomorrow, and sharing the whole batch of em here!
 
I do like the, look for an angle, concept. For example; Make that "gizmo"... be it a slingshot, bottle opener, pry bar, what ever! If the people want stuff like this, give it to them.
Lorien is on the mark, it's no cake walk, and I appreciate and thank you all!
rolf
 
As a knife buyer, times are pretty good. There is a a wide variety of high quality knives being made and readily available

Pricing remains an issue. There are plenty of high quality factory knives at good prices being manufactured today and this limits the appeal of getting into custom knives for some. I only got interested in custom knives trying to find a decent fishing knife. That would not be a problem today.

I think those trying to "invest" in knives are the most vulnerable. Collectibles in general are difficult if not poor investments. Look at the current art market. When stock market volatility is an issue, many look for alternative vehicles. I think some of the market activity in the recent past was "hot" money looking for a place to go. The limitations of collectibles are liquidity issues (as per original poster), high transaction costs (sell on a dealer site and you will pay fairly high commissions) opaque pricing (hard to get factual information, dealers and individuals routinely delete prices from online sources), and the difficulty of separating the hobby from the investment. The buying habits of a few well healed buyers can dramatically affect prices. Remember how pearl handled knives were driven up by the habits of just one buyer? I suspect there is often frank market manipulation and that turns me off.

Collectibles are also limited by a high tax rate (28%, although i suspect tax evasion is not rare)

The good news is that I like buying custom knives and will continue to do so, for my enjoyment and my own use

I think the best long term plan for most knife makers is to market knives to collectors not speculators.
 
bandaidman said:
The good news is that I like buying custom knives and will continue to do so, for my enjoyment and my own use
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I would say upwards of 97% of those who purchase custom/handmade knives feel the same way as you do. I do. The primary reason that I collect knives is because often am filled with a sense of joy, wonderment and excitement to be able to own and use/admire something so very special, and often have the added bonus of a personal relationship/friendship with the maker....but

bandaidman said:
I think the best long term plan for most knife makers is to market knives to collectors not speculators.
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I'm not sure if there are enough "speculators" to market to.

A collector/investor and speculator are two different things. A collector/investor DOES sell knives from time to time....and doesn't want to lose money doing so...which is where paying attention to market trends comes in. If a knife that I purchased for $500.00 starts selling for $2,000 on the aftermarket, I usually sell it(unless I'm truly in love with it, but that is a different story for a different time)....because I can buy two other knives with that money....it doesn't usually go into my actual stock portfolio.

If a collector has the self control/discipline to only own maybe 20 knives at any given time, they can very selectively sell, or not sell, depending upon a variety of factors, but the vast majority of collector/investors that I know have large collections representing fairly serious money and move the knives around as interest in type and style change or as something more desirable becomes available. Those in a position to never sell and not care to are unaffected by market trends, and the only impact that they have to the market is the initial purchase from the maker, or to a smaller degree, as part of the aggregate on the secondary market.

Speculators go to shows or have proxies do it and get the knife, and flip it on the spot or hold for a brief while and then take advantage of "The Love". They can be part of market manipulation, but as I have said before, the market is so big and so varied that no one person controls it. Specific maker "hotness" fluctuates rapidly and in the last 10+ years has shown no rhyme or reason.....I can tell you that the biggest creators of that "buzz" or "hype" were Emerson, Hinderer and Strider....sort of the "Big 3". Ken Onion was the first modern tactical custom knifemaker that I witnessed as part of that phenomenon and it was pretty much because of one collector/investor, Grant Wells, who manages some sort of money fund and as far as I can tell, doesn't need to make a profit in order to enjoy the knives he gets.

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson
 
I hope you are right about 97% being long term collectors and enthusiasts.

Steven, do you think the number of collectors is growing, stagnant or declining?

There are certainly many more knife makers now vs 20 years ago.
 
bandaidman said:
I hope you are right about 97% being long term collectors and enthusiasts.

Steven, do you think the number of collectors is growing, stagnant or declining?

There are certainly many more knife makers now vs 20 years ago.
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Compared to 20 years ago, I think the OVERALL number of handmade/custom knife collectors is growing....but also think that stagnation and decline is looming as the current generation passes on....while the number of makers grows at a slow rate....which is why I preach CAUTION!!!

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson
 
If you buy knives you like, because you like them, not as an investment. You will never be disappointed. This holds true in every market.

I also think more buyers prefer to and are getting knives first hand from makers; as it becomes easier to be visible and be accessible to buyers via places like IG.
Why pay inflated secondary market prices, when you can have the hopefully positive experience of buying direct from the source (obviously this isn't possible with some makers). This has been by personal experience anyway.

Not a fan of lotteries in general my self. Most of the guys winning lotteries, that I have seen, turn around and sell the knife immediately for a profit to a dealer. Who then inflates the price even further. It's a viscous cycle. Not much you can do about it though. Flippers gonna flip flip flip. :rolleyes:
 
One thing I know for a fact from dealers and from collectors - especially European collectors)
is that custom knives displayed in my books are in demand and sell quite well...

I often get phone calls from persons representing a collector asking if I have
for sale knives that are featured in my books... I have sold most of my collection
this way and in recent years way-above their "market prices"....

There is also a new type of collector emerging High Tech people that made their "Exit"
or are successful in their business and can afford (and enjoy) to realize their fantasies....

All the best,
David Darom (ddd)
 
Good education in this thread. :thumbup:
 
I've never bought a knife with the intent of immediately selling it to make a profit and I absolutely refuse to pay the outrageous Secondary Market prices.

I've always strived to buy my knives directly from the Maker but, as I alluded to in a previous post, it's pretty maddening when Makers I've done business with for years, or any Maker for that matter, totally ignore me.

I have many knives that are selling for 3x-4x what I paid years ago....not interested in selling them now or years from now. They will always be worth at least what I paid...can't ask for much more than that.

I enjoy having them, don't really care about the market, but I do care that a once very enjoyable past time has turned into something I am starting to lose interest in.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
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Dudley! That won't happen. I hope. You love knives and you have already outsmarted the nonsense.
rolf
 
Dawkind said:
I've never bought a knife with the intent of immediately selling it to make a profit and I absolutely refuse to pay the outrageous Secondary Market prices.

I've always strived to buy my knives directly from the Maker but, as I alluded to in a previous post, it's pretty maddening when Makers I've done business with for years, or any Maker for that matter, totally ignore me.

I have many knives that are selling for 3x-4x what I paid years ago....not interested in selling them now or years from now. They will always be worth at least what I paid...can't ask for much more than that.

I enjoy having them, don't really care about the market, but I do care that a once very enjoyable past time has turned into something I am starting to lose interest in.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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I feel that way as well. I still buy a piece here and there from makers directly. I have never bought with the thought of resale as well.
 
Interesting thread STeven. Markets swing back and forth, collectables often more so.
True enough about makers coming in at a faster rate than collectors. That's the makers fault for not having business skills to bring collectors in with them. Then too, many makers do this as a hobby and do not care nor rely on needing to expand the market. Many of those it is a hobby for them so they don't worry about it.
This means that this market can and is often changed by people that does not rely on it? For makers not looking down the road that can change things. Always interesting and entertaining STeven.
 
Dawkind said:
I do care that a once very enjoyable past time has turned into something I am starting to lose interest in.
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Same here Dudley. I've put a tremendous amount of time and effort into custom knives and the custom knife community over the years and have received much enjoyment by doing so, however some of the going-ons of recent years have really made me lose interest. Still love the knives and friends I've made.
 
Dawkind said:
I've always strived to buy my knives directly from the Maker but, as I alluded to in a previous post, it's pretty maddening when Makers I've done business with for years, or any Maker for that matter, totally ignore me.

I enjoy having them, don't really care about the market, but I do care that a once very enjoyable past time has turned into something I am starting to lose interest in.
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don't let a few bad Skittles cause you to throw out the handful :)
 
BenR.T. said:
If you buy knives you like, because you like them, not as an investment. You will never be disappointed. This holds true in every market.
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If you buy knives that you like as a beginning collector/user....and get bad knives, or find that as you develop knowledge and experience and don't like these knives anymore and can't sell them, not only will you experience true disappointment, but you just might not be involved in collecting or using handmade or custom knives anymore. This happens.....a lot.

Dawkind said:
I've never bought a knife with the intent of immediately selling it to make a profit and I absolutely refuse to pay the outrageous Secondary Market prices.

I've always strived to buy my knives directly from the Maker but, as I alluded to in a previous post, it's pretty maddening when Makers I've done business with for years, or any Maker for that matter, totally ignore me.
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I would hate that. Some makers have grown in different directions than me. I haven't spoken with Jason Knight in a long time, I hope we are still tight(no reason that we shouldn't be) but he hasn't called me, and I haven't called him. Maybe sometimes life just happens, not sure.

Dawkind said:
I enjoy having them, don't really care about the market, but I do care that a once very enjoyable past time has turned into something I am starting to lose interest in
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Things change Dudley. I've lost a lot of interest in going to shows myself, as I have a lot of knives now and can't see the expense and time that it takes to go to as many....but I still love the knives and haven't lost any interest in the community. It's all a part of why we are here on BFC as well as other forums, paying attention to IG((that's you guys, I don't look at it, nor do I Facebook, Pinterest or any of that other social networking BS), could be I'm missing out, but not likely) and generally creating whatever community we consider ourselves part of.

While you may not ever sell knives, if you have offspring, and they move any of the knives they inherit at one time, you can be sure that WILL have an effect on the market, regardless of your caring or not. It happened to Jason Knight when John Trevaskis(sp?) sold off his collection. For a short period of time, a good Jason Knight knife could be had for a very discounted price...that tends to be good news for collectors, and maybe not good news for a maker, in the short term.

Anyway, I do think you will enjoy your knives until the end, and that is a good thing, no matter how you look at it, how you collect, or who you collect.

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson
 
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