Steel is steel is steel is steel...

[peacefuljeffrey]

I won't pretend that there can't be and aren't definite differences between steels of various composition, and each have their advantanges and disadvantages. Some are tougher but don't hold an edge as well. Others hold an edge but are more brittle, etc. Some are harder, but are less resistant to corrosion.

But honestly, I cannot really fathom why there is such a rapid rotation from knife steel to knife steel, on and on and on... Have we really not come to a point where the steel we have is quite good enough... just to be... knives? Are we still seeking "the right steel" as though there is some holy grail formula that will be the be-all and end-all? Isn't that impossible, anyway, because we'll need some knives to be tough and some to be hard, etc.? Don't we already have enough varieties to fill each kind of need?

The reason I ask, is because I remember what steels were "the latest thing" about a year ago, but having not paid much attention to it, I come back to knife circles and I see mention of about three or four new "wonder steels" and I think it's a bit of overkill...

Someone justify it to me, if you believe you can.


-Jeffrey

 

[fedaykincmndr]

You know I don't know why we do that with steels either. I don't think it's the search for the be-all to end-all per se, but rather a search for the steel that fits YOU as an individual and something that will meet most if not all of your needs.

That's all I can come up with except that it's addictive trying all the "wonder steels" as you so put it and you can NEVER have too many knives!

 

[peacefuljeffrey]

Never too many knives, sure, I understand that. But I may be less enlightened than many here, but I ADMIT to not really being able to detect such profound differences between, say, VG10 and CPMS30V, etc. It's very likely that I am just not immersed enough in it: I don't conduct my own knife tests, I don't beat my knives up, don't use 'em real hard and push them to the brink of failure, so maybe I won't ever see the alleged differences. But I am also skeptical by nature, and so I am skeptical that all the people who claim to be dissatisfied by 440C's performance and they "need" VG10 or something better are really on the level, or that they're not just "posing".

I don't mean insult by that, and I have no on in particular in mind, but I really do think that some people may have, along the line, jumped onto the bandwagon of being steel highbrows just to "belong"...

And as a corrolary to that, the steels that are around already really are quite enough for what we need.

I hate feeling like I have to stay up-to-date with the latest development in steel alloys. Can't my friggin' Mini Grip in 440C be all I really need?



-Jeffrey

 

[MMKTiger]

I have to agree with you Jeffrey. I have to admit that Ive gotten caught up in the steel craze, and bought some nice pieces. However, I doubt I'll ever find myself in a situation where I'll push my s30v's to its limit. And if I find myself doing so, I must be doing something wrong and shoulda/coulda avoided it. Perhaps, there's something to these supersteels in its longer edge hold for a job. Or, with just about everything in life, knife collecting hasnt quite dodged "fads" and the "in thing". Heck, what do I know, Im a newbie, and I likes what I likes, and I happen to likes the Grip as well.

 

[orthogonal1]

Man in general seeks to improve. If "good enough" drove society, we'd still be livin' in caves and yurts (or whatever). Knife steel is a progression of the paradigm.

Besides, wouldn't it be rather boring if we stopped at that new fangled 440C steel (stainless, why? - carbon steel is good enough).

 

[SOLEIL]

Never too many knives, sure, I understand that. But I may be less enlightened than many here, but I ADMIT to not really being able to detect such profound differences between, say, VG10 and CPMS30V, etc. It's very likely that I am just not immersed enough in it: I don't conduct my own knife tests, I don't beat my knives up, don't use 'em real hard and push them to the brink of failure, so maybe I won't ever see the alleged differences. But I am also skeptical by nature, and so I am skeptical that all the people who claim to be dissatisfied by 440C's performance and they "need" VG10 or something better are really on the level, or that they're not just "posing".

I don't mean insult by that, and I have no on in particular in mind, but I really do think that some people may have, along the line, jumped onto the bandwagon of being steel highbrows just to "belong"...

And as a corrolary to that, the steels that are around already really are quite enough for what we need.

I hate feeling like I have to stay up-to-date with the latest development in steel alloys. Can't my friggin' Mini Grip in 440C be all I really need?



-Jeffrey

Sure it can be. Ultimately the choice is yours. Most of my favorite work knives are 440C, 420HC, 440A, Sandvik 12 and 13 series. Some people here consider these to be low performers, but if you touch them up as needed they stay razor sharp. It seems that many of us here look to the super steels for ease of upkeep, not having to worry about sharpening or corrosion. For others like myself looking to new chemistrys or variances of same is more like playing with newer and more technical toys. Metallurgy has always been a hobby. Once you ignore all the hype and look at the facts then you can decide what you want. IMHO whatever steel anyone likes that does everything they need it to is the steel for them. If it gives them problems then they can try other options. I don't think that most of us try to belong, it is just our curiosity

 

[jlh2600]

It's just like any other industry. Whenever there is enough of a market to demand development, research will be funded, and technology will improve. Regardless of how significant the improvements are, or even if it's just a shifting of one performance variable to another, it's a matter of what people are willing to pay for perceived improvements.

Hypothetically, if some super steel came out (I'm going with alien technology) that put the toughest, most razor sharp blades in peoples hands, which never needed sharpening, and never rusted, I doubt manufacturers would continue to fund new steel technology.

But as long as there is perceived room for improvement, and people are wiling to pay for it, expect to see new stuff.

I mean, would you rather have more options or less?

 

[Vivi]

For all the talk that goes on about blade steels around here, I've never found myself to be anything but satisfied with a 10$ SAK blade as far as sharpness, edge retention, corrosion resistance and so forth is concerned. I can't think of any knife from a reputable company (Leatherman, Wenger, Spyderco, CRKT) that I've purchased and had issues with the blade steel itself. My issues with blades have always been with grinds and thickness, as I strongly prefer thin blades the majority of the time.

 

[Gringogunsmith]

The corporate clowns keep playing.
The Mastersmiths stay with the tried and true.
Custom knives are the way to fly.
Customs by Mastersmiths can "ouch" your wallet but like anything else, the best is the BEST..
It's more about man, forge, design, and heat treat method, than it is steel.

 

[EDCeeker]

Someone justify it to me, if you believe you can.

Read your own post. You justified it yourself. At the same time you implied that, though there can be differences and improvements, knifemakers... shouldn't employ them? Buyers shouldn't seek them? Your complaint doesn't make sense to me.

As a consumer, I consider the type of steel used in the blade as one of the criteria. There are a number of steels I prefer. There is one steel, in particular, I'll avoid (for the present?). There are other steels that are "acceptable" to me if other aspects of the knife make it sufficiently attractive to me.

 

[pinpoint]

I think its called product differentiation. We live in a consumer society that is driven by consumption. Business grows by selling more items.

I'm sure no one who visits this forum really needs another knife or a better quality steel. But we love to think the holy grail is out there, the ultimate knife. The steel used in cheap chinese knives it is probably better than the steel used in 99.999% of the history of man. Our ancestors hunted, battled, prepared copious amounts of food, for a very long time with steel little better than mild steel. But we still keep looking for the ultimate and business will keep on selling us something a little bit different that we dont really need.
Regards
Pinpoint

 

[GoodGuy]

I think its called product differentiation. We live in a consumer society that is driven by consumption. Business grows by selling more items.
Pinpoint

Agreed. "New and Improved" has been used for years to entice us to purchase the "new and improved" products. I think, too, that the proliferation of forums like this made possible, of course, by the internet has driven the development of different products and demand for such. In about 3 or 4 years, many knife users will abandon CPM S30V steel for the then latest and greatest.

I'm not sure that it's the makers (custom or production) that are pushing for the differentiation and change. In fact, I'm guessing it puts a strain on them to adapt their shops and methods to deal with new steels. I wouldn't be surprised if many makers secretly wished we'd all go back to 1050 and 1095 and 440C and be happy with those very good steels.

With all that said... I'll have to admit that I traded my "old" (but mint) Spyderco Military in ATS34 along with some cash for a new one in CPM S30V. I'm not immune....

 

[DaveH]

I think part of the reason you see this here is that this is a specialized audience who does get excited about new steels. Call them fads or fashoin but knives styles and steel come in and out of favor relatively quickly.

If it bothers you why come back?

 

[DGG]

Peaceful-

Don't worry about it! Be Happy!

In about 25 years we won't even be using steel knives. By then lasers will be perfected to the point that we carry laser knives instead of these clunky steel things we have today. Laser knives will be powered by small batteries with very long life. Laser knives will have a sensor to warn you before you cut something that is alive. They already are using such knives in the medical field. Laser knives will not be light sabers. They will only have a blade length of about 3.5 inches. They will never need to be sharpened and they will make incredibly accurate and fine cuts. You will be able to pinpoint the beginning and end of the cut, push the button, and the laser will connect the points and make the cut.

Anyone not agree with this forecast? Why?

Here are some rather gory pictures showing laser knives in action. Please don't click on this link if you have a weak stomach.

http://www.clinicon.com/diamondlaser.html

 

[puukkoman]

But I am also skeptical by nature, and so I am skeptical that all the people who claim to be dissatisfied by 440C's performance and they "need" VG10 or something better are really on the level, or that they're not just "posing".

I don't mean insult by that, and I have no on in particular in mind, but I really do think that some people may have, along the line, jumped onto the bandwagon of being steel highbrows just to "belong"...

I agree... All I really need is something that cuts. 440C, for example, works fine. As does 420HC, truth be told, and as does 1095 (or other carbon steel).

Part of the reason many of us like to collect knives is a fascination with the fusion of the simplest tool ever with the highest technology possible. We're gadget-heads, a lot of us, who are also intrigued by simplicity. The wonder-steel craze is a way we can manifest both of these oxymoronic, seemingly self-contradictory interests.


Edit: Wow, that laser scalpel is a really neat idea!

 

[Barrabas]

As a general rule (with rare exception) - Man is never truly satisfied with anything.
Car makers improve their designs, Mcdonalds improves the menu etc.

There is rarely found "the perfect knife" to a knifeaholic, or we would stop buying. If we do find "the one" we will also try to get another one, in case we lose "the one" etc.

In my short time of being semi-serious about getting quality knives I enjoy seeing the various steels and trying them out to see what best suits my needs - or most likely my wants.

I think it's neat, and as long as there is a market for continued improvements they will keep coming.

It would be interesting though to see a chart or something showing when the various steels started being used, and what the favorites are and have been. More specifically, who on Blade Forums is using what steel today, and what others have they tried before they made that choice and why, and finally, are they satisfied - or do they want something better?

Can someone start a pole/ survey on here for that?

Be Well,

sp

 

[GoodGuy]

"Laser knives".... c'mon people. That's so ancient history. Everyone knows laser blades were used a long time ago and, apparently, in a galaxy far, far away.

 

[Cliff Stamp]

Don't we already have enough varieties to fill each kind of need?

Steels switch because people want the best or newest so if you are a custom knifemaker and using ATS-34 when the market is hot with S30V/CPM-154CM which everyone "knows" is better then you are at a disadvantage regardless of the actual performance difference.

-Cliff

 

[Doug C]

The corporate clowns keep playing.
The Mastersmiths stay with the tried and true.
Custom knives are the way to fly.
Customs by Mastersmiths can "ouch" your wallet but like anything else, the best is the BEST..
It's more about man, forge, design, and heat treat method, than it is steel.

I agree with most everything in above post but I do want to know everything I can about new,SuperSteels,UberSteels(first time I ever typed that) ,better steels.
It's all about applications anyway.

Will the light sabers/laser knives be Bowie style?


Doug

 

[ronsec]

In the most absolute, Peaceful is right. Lets face it, who really needs the latest and greatest steel for most of what we do with our EDC's? However, our hobby is just like any other. Stereophiles will pursue the last % of harmonic distortion or power, yet in reality they probably cannot hear the difference. But, they know it is there! Shooters handload, rebarrel, & put in new trigger assemblies in order to increase accuracy, yet most guns will outshoot the average person right out of the box. So, we're no different from anybody else. We like to have the latest & greatest steel just because! Enjoy!