Steel quality and snobbism.

A

Alan Mackey

Joined
Nov 13, 2011
Messages
82
Before I even start my dissertation, I guess must confess I have been guilty of this many times in the past. Not anymore.

What do, any of you all (or me, for that matter), use your knives for? Maybe cutting some cardboard, strip a few wires and, once in a while, going outdoors and pretend you are in a survival situation. That's all.

Do we **REALLY** need a super-mega-fancy-brand-new-steel for just that? I don't think so. In fact, even the cheapest knives with the worst steel ever would be more than enough for 99.9% of the tasks at hand.

Let's reflect for a brief moment... Not so long ago, maybe just a century ago or so, a man couldn't survive without his knife. And I'm talking about **REAL** survival, life-or-death scenarios. Prepping food, building shelter, making campfires, dressing animals, making cordage, carving wood, clean fish and self defense. On a daily basis!!!

And I guess it would be a safe bet to say they made it remarkably well with their not-so-fancy knives. Otherwise, neither of us would be here today, would we?

So if the not-so-good-steels did suffice for our ancestors, why on Earth wouldn't an AUS-8 knife be enough to cut some cardboard, strip a few wires and going outdoors and pretend you are in a survival situation?

Even the cheapest Kershaw or Boker models are waaaaaay better than our ancestors' knives. And we won't even remotely abuse them the same way they did with theirs.

So, from now on, I solemnly swear not to be a steel snob and discard perfectly valid knives just because they are not made from the latest-super-hyper-mega-steel.
 
Having a hard time justifying your next super steel purchase? That would sure make you philosophical. ;)
 
Hi Alan,

that's an interesting point. I guess, you are right with your analysis how many of us use their knifes. - But, to me the fascination of steels like Infi or Boehler N690 (just to name two very different) is just the very verrryyy good feeling of reliability - what these knifes COULD manage. I thing it is just like driving a Porsche or Lambourghini - you could go 200 mph, but you rarely do so..?

Have nice Christmas
Vincent (from Germany)
 
Having a hard time justifying your next super steel purchase? That would sure make you philosophical.
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Nope, just the opposite.

I came to realize that I'm more comfortable with my Spyderco Tenacious than my Para2. I did wake up to the fact that my humble Boker Trance satisfies me more than my BM710. And I just quit looking for a better-steel-substitute for my trusted Subcom/SubClaw.

Of course I'd rather have a ZDP-189 SubCom than an AUS-8 one. But I won't hesitate to give "worse" steels a chance. Any of my not-so-top-notch knives will last a lifetime and each and every one of them have proven to be more than adequate for my daily chores (being that cutting cardboard or making a shelter).

I mean, it would be really nice to have a Busse or a William Henry folder (I know I'll end up having a few of those) but, as long as I can have a SubCom, a Tenacious or a Izula the high end knives won't be missed at all.

Does that make sense to any of you as well?
 
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I thing it is just like driving a Porsche or Lambourghini - you could go 200 mph, but you rarely do so..?
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The thing is... I have driven a Porsche 911S on one of your fine autobahns and it was a truly marvelous experience. But, since I already have a Subaru Legacy 3.0r Spec B and a Saab Turbo-X I won't complain much. I guess I'm pretty ease to please. :D
 
This reminds me of when I had my 54 Chevy truck. It had a 250 flat six with a Rochester one barrel carburetor. It had no turn signals, no side mirrors and no AC. It got me from point A to point B no problem. Now I have a car with on board computer, GPS, AC, iPod doc and wonder how I lived without it. Just seems to be the natural progression with material items.

With knives I went the opposite way. Started with high end super steels and have gone backwards to o1, 1095 and so forth. Are they less? I don't think so really. They may require upkeep but if you're like me and sharpen badly, I can appreciate a steel that is easier to sharpen.
 
Liveitloud said:
With knives I went the opposite way. Started with high end super steels and have gone backwards to o1, 1095 and so forth. Are they less? I don't think so really. They may require upkeep but if you're like me and sharpen badly, I can appreciate a steel that is easier to sharpen.
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My point exactly!

I guess INFI steel would be something nice to have. But, as long as we can have 1095 and 13C26 steels I do not have a need for anything fancier. I just realized the truth behind the law of diminishing returns and I must confess it took me years.
 
You do make a valid point, sir. From what I see there is no real difference in someone choosing a micro-brew to a Budweiser. It is all personal preference and if people want to be selective in steel that is up to them. I can not justify buying INFI steel but that is simply because I cannot realistically afford it. There are many factors that go into steel selection and being a "snob" about is why we are here anyway.
 
Cars and knives are a bad analogy -- unless you can afford a hundred or more cars, like many of us have bought that many knives.

This is Bladeforums, we are knife hobbyists we are knife knuts.. For most of us, it is not only the utility. It is not survival. It's fun. We enjoy the steels, the designs, the sharpening, the experimenting.

And we do have simpler, cheaper, very effective knives for ordinary use. The only "knife" I used today was my Victorinox Farmer. I popped the top off a soda bottle with the bottle opener. No reason to pick one over the other.
 
I'm not going to say that I don't like to play around with fancier steels. AS a matter of fact I really like the differences in steels. I just don't think you will fail in a given situation if you don't have "X" steel. When I was a kid there was an old neighbor guy a few houses down from my grandparents. I was probably 6 at the time and was always bugging him for a pocket knife. One day we were sitting in his backyard and eating watermelon and I was (as usual) bugging the shit out of him about a knife.

He got up and went into the tool shed and cut a big chunk out of the end of a shovel and put it on the grinder. He then cut some wood off of an old coffee table. Drilled some holes, glued them on and ran nails through the handle and peened em in. After an hour or so he gave me my new knife.

That thing cut everything in site for years and years. Wasn't the prettiest knife I had ever seen but it was one fine tool and somewhere down the line I lost it. I have thought about that knife often. Would trade 100 knife for it in a minute to have it back. It did the job.
 
This is Bladeforums, we are knife hobbyists we are knife knuts.. For most of us, it is not only the utility. It is not survival. It's fun. We enjoy the steels, the designs, the sharpening, the experimenting.
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So why not experiment with less-fancy steel as well? I'm not against high-end knives, I'm against discarding low-end knives just because their specs are not top-notch.

My next purchases are going to be a Cold Steel Mini AK-47 (low end of the spectrum) and CRK Mnandi (high end production). Let's not discard anything, no matter how "poor" the specs may be on the paper. :thumbup:
 
Liveitloud said:
With knives I went the opposite way. Started with high end super steels and have gone backwards to o1, 1095 and so forth. Are they less? I don't think so really. They may require upkeep but if you're like me and sharpen badly, I can appreciate a steel that is easier to sharpen.
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Ditto.
I went back to tool steel for my choppers and not much on folders anymore.

Alan,
The reason why we are here is because we have opinions of what the oldest tool designed and made by human and remains the passion of the forumites here.
I agree my grandpa's folder is sharper than any of mine but given a choice would i pick something more durable, rust-proof, easy to sharpen, better edge retention? Yes i would and don't forget every single design from pommel to tip has its own functions that caters to different application.

You certainly can go well with Aus-8a, 1095 or other steels proven in the field. Everybody has their fav.steel and that's why the knife market is diverse.
Oh don't forget when you need the knife the most you would have wished that it gives you more and not less.

I can't afford INFI but it's good to know there's such steel out there. I do know that i enjoyed testing every steels i can find in the market and thus i got closer to what i really need. Good luck on yours too.
 
I like to try all types of steel and usually circle back to what works for me. My needs are pretty simple. Can I get it sharp as heck before I grow a beard and will it stay that way for at least a week of (my) daily use. I don't really care if it gets a spot of patina, etc.. as growing up that was a badge of honor! Variety is great and in a hobby where most can afford a few it makes the knife not only a tool but also fun.
 
You're 100% correct OP but it's a matter of personal choice in "what we need" most times.

When I first graduated college I drove a 10 year old Toyota Camry with 210k on it and it ran perfect, got me everywhere i needed to go and never let me down. These days I drive an Infiniti I30t with every power and leather option there is that cost about 10x the amount I spent on the Camry yet does the same job. Why? Because I worked my ass off to get where I am to be able to do these types of things if I feel like it. Reward for work, why trade hours for dollars to if you're only going to just barely get by?

The same goes with steels and knives. Sure I could carry a $10 Gerber folder that would probably do more then I need and save my life if required but since I can afford it I carry mid-priced production knives like Spyderco and Benchmade because I can afford it and because I enjoy it. It's my choice and within my means so I choose to do so.
 
Yeah and man survived using stone knives too, then Bronze, then Iron ect....

Things to evolve to the next level as technology gets better.

I use steels varying from AUS-8 to K294 (A11) and a lot of steels in between depending on what I want or need.

We truely live in great times when it comes to the steels that knives are made of.

There are a lot of choices to pick from.

Why should I use a lesser steel when my S110V knife (Paring knife) that I use in the Kitchen has held it's edge for over 6 months now and is still VERY sharp?
 
I can't speak for the others but I see no need for folks to downgrade. I just find that steels I passed over because I was on a mission for the latest and greatest have their place as well. I have about 100 Spyderco's knives so yes, I do enjoy exotic steels but just not to the exclusion to the supposed lesser or different steels. You could probably throw an edge on a butter knife and I would have to stop and fondle it. :)
 
Ankerson said:
Yeah and man survived using stone knives too, then Bronze, then Iron ect....

Things to evolve to the next level as technology gets better.

I use steels varying from AUS-8 to K294 (A11) and a lot of steels in between depending on what I want or need.

We truely live in great times when it comes to the steels that knives are made of.

There are a lot of choices to pick from.

Why should I use a lesser steel when my S110V knife (Paring knife) that I use in the Kitchen has held it's edge for over 6 months now and is still VERY sharp?
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Because sharpening is fun too?;)
 
Why do people buy several expensive mechanical watches and an automatic self-winder to keep them running when a $20 electronic Cassio will keep time more accurately? I don't know.
But it is their money, their business, and none of mine, so I don't see a need to chide them about it.
 
Why should I use a lesser steel when my S110V knife (Paring knife) that I use in the Kitchen has held it's edge for over 6 months now and is still VERY sharp?
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My point is not that you shouldn't, but you could use AUS-8 and get the job done as well. Sometimes we kind of dismiss excellent steels, like the AUS-8, just because we can afford something better (on the paper at least).

One of my next purchases is going to be a damascus Mnandi, so I'm guilty too of liking expensive things. But I really doubt the Mnandi will get more pocket time than my Spyderco Tenacious or my Boker Hyper. Being cheaper doesn't necessarily mean being inferior in every aspect.
 
The ELMAX steel on my ZT is no harder to sharpen than O1 or 1095 @ Rc60 and I even use waterstones to sharpen it. It has better resistance to deformation and has yet to have a report of chipping all while having the edge retention of ZDP, and with 18% Cr don't expect it to rust anytime soon. Why would you not want that?

I still like a carbon such as 52100 for my fixed blades but that's a different role with different requirements that just so happen to be fulfilled very well by most carbon and tool steels.

This is all a bit of a moot point though without knowing the maker and heat treatment of the steel or what it will be used for. All of which will play a bigger role in any given steels performance.
 
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