fitzo
Gold Member
- Joined
- Aug 14, 2001
- Messages
- 6,648
As mete stated, steel specs are ranges. If the L6 from Admiral is within their claimed ranges, then there is no room for complaint other than a questionably flexible definition of what consitutes L6. The complaint would be with how they state their analyses/ranges. If they won't tell you the ranges, then don't buy. If this steel is outside their specs, then they should stand behind it or they suck. If they claim an AISI spec and won't make good on outlying steel, then they suck. Notwithstanding that we have a certain obligation to know what we're buying by asking the right questions. if you go back to someplace that's burned you, then you suck....
It's not necessarily a matter of whether it's "bad steel", but that it's not what one expects from an understanding of what constitutes L6. It might make a fine knife.
There are two ways to deal with this:
1) Buy from somewhere that will guarantee the steel is within specifications they will tell you up front. That usually means a primary manufacturer and not a middleman who will buy on a spot market from many different manufacturers or other middlemen. "Typical lot analysis" may be a warning flag in itself. I would be interested to know if a place like Admiral even has test facilites onsite or gets "actual lot analyses" when they buy.
2) Buy enough at one time that you can economically send it for analysis so you know what you have. Have an agreement that if the steel is unacceptable it can be returned. Then spend the time to work out the best heat treat for that large batch of steel and work off of it for some time. Buying non-domestic steel one bar at a time means there will be variability, especially in today's steel world. That's a reality that won't get better. We can bitch all day long and it won't change the fact the burden is on us to be smart.
Like Caffrey states in more polite language, we are a pissant little segment in a very large steel market. We have to learn to fit in, because there is little incentive for them to serve us. That means we have to be smart and know what questions to ask. An option other than commisioning the production of a batch with known chemistry is to search for a large supply of existing steel with a desirable analysis. Telling a company to keep their eyes open for 5 tons of single-batch steel with xxxxx specs will perk up a few ears in some places. Then, a number of makers could go together and buy that. Perhaps this is a good business opportunity for someone here with an entrepeunurial spirit. Mace Vitale did just that with the 1084. Did everyone take good advantage of that?
If you buy one steak a week from the supermarket, you take what you get if it tastes like crap. If you seek out and buy the best beef, the probability of a good steak increases, but you have to expect to pay more. If you're the supermarket, you get a little more say when you buy tons of beef each week. That's capitalism, folks. Caveat emptor.
It's not necessarily a matter of whether it's "bad steel", but that it's not what one expects from an understanding of what constitutes L6. It might make a fine knife.
There are two ways to deal with this:
1) Buy from somewhere that will guarantee the steel is within specifications they will tell you up front. That usually means a primary manufacturer and not a middleman who will buy on a spot market from many different manufacturers or other middlemen. "Typical lot analysis" may be a warning flag in itself. I would be interested to know if a place like Admiral even has test facilites onsite or gets "actual lot analyses" when they buy.
2) Buy enough at one time that you can economically send it for analysis so you know what you have. Have an agreement that if the steel is unacceptable it can be returned. Then spend the time to work out the best heat treat for that large batch of steel and work off of it for some time. Buying non-domestic steel one bar at a time means there will be variability, especially in today's steel world. That's a reality that won't get better. We can bitch all day long and it won't change the fact the burden is on us to be smart.
Like Caffrey states in more polite language, we are a pissant little segment in a very large steel market. We have to learn to fit in, because there is little incentive for them to serve us. That means we have to be smart and know what questions to ask. An option other than commisioning the production of a batch with known chemistry is to search for a large supply of existing steel with a desirable analysis. Telling a company to keep their eyes open for 5 tons of single-batch steel with xxxxx specs will perk up a few ears in some places. Then, a number of makers could go together and buy that. Perhaps this is a good business opportunity for someone here with an entrepeunurial spirit.
Mace Vitale did just that with the 1084. Did everyone take good advantage of that? If you buy one steak a week from the supermarket, you take what you get if it tastes like crap. If you seek out and buy the best beef, the probability of a good steak increases, but you have to expect to pay more. If you're the supermarket, you get a little more say when you buy tons of beef each week. That's capitalism, folks. Caveat emptor.
:jerkit: 
