stick tang durability?

[tholiver]

lol tholiver! i read about the guy who decided to rehandle his cold steel laredo bowie only to find out that it had a partial tang with a wire wound around it for the remainder. talk about cutting corners:barf:

Man that would have p*ssed me off big time! At least my "nub" tanged knife was only a generic 30$ 440c bowie i bought when i was in highschool. You would think a name manufacturer would know better!

Actually i still have that "nub" knife as the blade steel wasn't incredibly awful, i recently discarded the flimsy rod welded to the tang and recut the blank so i lost some blade length but gained a full width/length tang. Put a new handle on it and voila a beater tool box fixed blade knife!

 

[GibsonFan]

lol tholiver! i read about the guy who decided to rehandle his cold steel laredo bowie only to find out that it had a partial tang with a wire wound around it for the remainder. talk about cutting corners:barf:

gibsonfan, about your point on big-ass S30V stainless choppers. i bought a strider pab because i thought it looked really useful being lightweight and fast. after receiving it i found it was 1/4 thick with a taper starting in front of the guard running clear to the point to about 1/16 thick. this gave the knife a very weird balance point for a chopper and considering the reputation of
S30V being brittle i never used it. this was more like a poorly designed short machete with an uncomfortable handle than a dedicated big chopper. i should try and sell it someday

Wow, it sounds like both those knives have serious deal-breakers built into them :thumbdn: Thanks for the heads-up.

 

[jdm61]

The knife that Wayne Goddard was talking about was what he considered to be his "ultimate fighter. It did not have a skinny little stick tang. More like a tand that was 3/4 of the width of the ricasso at the guard and went about 3/4 of the way into the handle where it had a piece of 3/8 inch threaded steel rod silver brazed to it. The guard had to be put on before brazing the rod because the blade was only 1/4 inch thick. He then brazed a nut to a domed steel buttcap. It also had a micarta handle. This was not a wimpy knife. I think that the thing he likes about this is that there are no scales to pop off and the micarta is nnot a likely to crack under compression as some other materiels. It is not as flexible as leather washers, but the micarta ads a LOT more structural integrity. Think about a Randall 14 or 15. "3/4" stick/full tang hybrid and no pins or rivets, yet when was the last time you heard of one failing.

 

[grease-man]

Well Gents, I just received the reply from Wayne Goddard to my e-mail regarding his statement in the "$50 Knife Shop". It's a bit vague, but here it is:

"Hi Matt,

I was out of town when your mail came in and I'm just now getting caught up.

A severe test of a knife's construction is the only way I know of to prove
what's strongest.

Metallurgists break steel by pulling, bending and hitting it. This is how
they create the different charts and graphs of strength of different
materials at varying hardness's. Auto makers crash new cars to see which
type of construction is the strongest.

There are many varied opinions on most things having to do with constructing
a knife. I want my opinions based on reality, not theory. Therefore I test
and compare.

We leave for a three day trip on Friday. I'll be glad to tackle any further
questions when I return to computer central.

Wayne"

Hope that helped some. I take it as, we should test and form our own conclusions based upon that. Sounds like that's what he did. I'm open to further discussion on the topic. -Matt-

 

[GibsonFan]

Thanks for passing that along grease-man.

 

[crossada]

thanks grease man.

too bad we don't have more makers opinions on the subject. i hold their opinion to a higher regard.

 

[Troop]

Let's ask Noss what he thinks regarding the two types of tangs. You know what he's likely to suggest, right? (Noss, Bro', you ain't going anywheres near any of my knives.)

 

[bikermikearchery]

thanks grease man.

too bad we don't have more makers opinions on the subject. i hold their opinion to a higher regard.

I made my first knife at 12 years old. I was taught to make knives by my Stepfather, a retired US Marine. I then served for 14 years in the US Marine Corps. During that service I had the opportunity to learn more blade smithing from local knife makers in remote places of the world. The knives I make were designed to withstand military service. IE: if you need to dig a hole, then you use it to dig a hole, if you need to pry a crate opened then do it. I don't make knives 'professionally' The job I have pays to well for me to walk away from, But, I make around 5 to 10 knives, a bunch of arrowheads, an axe or tomahawk and a spear or two every year.
OK I tooted my own horn so I feel better.
So to the point. Here we are still beating up the stick verses full tangs issue. True stick tangs are actually a rarity with tapered tangs (like the Mora's I have taken apart) and hidden tangs and a bunch of variants of those being more common. BUT even that skinny Little stick has an amount of strength that your not likely to break.
Here's an example that I have tried to make Before. A 40d nail is 3/16" thick and 5" long, made from the lowest grade of steel usual. I have bent about a thousand of these nails with my hands, ( I used to compete in strength competitions now I just bend then to amuse my grandchildren) A 3/16" X 5" nail or hot rolled steel of the same size, if clamped in a vice at the half way point and a scale put on the other end will take approximately 160lbs to bend to 45 degrees. Add to that any thing you add on ( the handle material) greatly increases the overall strength. A 3/16" round tang would be the worst possible choice for a tang. Just trying to keep the handle from turning would be a problem so a square tang 3/16" x 3/16" x 5 is the obvious improvement at least to keep the material from turning on the tang. On to that add that there is more mass in the 3/16" square than the round. My simple shop test shows nearly 50% increase in strength in square over round. Most knives have substantially more mass in there tang or start out at nearly the width of the blade and taper back to a point ( like a Mora or a Khukuri )
There are or have been some junk knives that an unscrupulous maker welded a stick to a blade and passed it off on someone. Well you paid for junk you got junk. I don't tout the virtues of narrow tang because I think its some how magically stronger, but because it opens up more options for handle designed and material. I have a few Mule deer antler crowns that would just be a shame to cut in to scales. so I'll make a hidden tang with a steel buttcap, so you could hammer your heart out your just not going to break this knife.

I don't have a vested interest in ether way. I make my knives for my self and a few close friends. I just think to many people have been sold a bill of goods that has no merit.