**STOLEN KNIFE ALERT**

[Sharp & Fiery]

Fullflat

This is so unfortunate to read. Im sorry this has happened to you. The encouragement and support here at BF is amazing.
I havent had an issue with USPS yet, but I also go the route of no insurance. I dont want to give them a reason to see a value on the package. Seems like even if insured, you were stand up and refunded the buyers funds. I really hope that this gets corrected.
Glad to see the relationship between both you and the buyer still intact. Its just a knife, albeit a freaking beautiful one, and the most important things in life are our friendships.

Keep on tugging on that rope toy...

 

[Fullflat]

Fullflat

The encouragement and support here at BF is amazing..
Glad to see the relationship between both you and the buyer still intact. Its just a knife, albeit a freaking beautiful one, and the most important things in life are our friendships.

Keep on tugging on that rope toy...

So true!! This community, and the friendships we’ve established within it, are what makes BF so awesome. The knives are cool, for sure, but it’s the folks that make it special. Thank you so much for the support and wisdom. I dig your perspective brother!

 

[LastRodeo]

Hey all,

I’ve had a very nice Uncovsky custom folder allegedly stolen after being sold to another member here @Brummie The purpose of this thread is to get as much info as I can out there, in the hopes that you fine folks will keep a lookout for this one of a kind knife, and to try and prevent this same scenario from happening again to anyone else selling on these forums.

The facts are as follows:
The buyer (Brummie) purchased the knife this last Sunday (March 1st), using PP F&F.
I packed the knife Monday AM (March 2nd) first putting it in it’s original small metal box (laser engraved to match the knife). The box was then inserted into a bubble mailer, and then wrapped in more bubble wrap, which was then taped up nice & secure. I then put all of that into a medium USPS flat rate box, and put more packing material (smaller boxes & envelopes) at the bottom and top of the box, to ensure the knife was situated in the middle of the box, well protected from any possible damage. The package was then taken by me directly to our main USPS regional origin facility that very afternoon, where I used a self serve kiosk to insure & print postage for the package, and then handed it to an employee who immediately scanned it in and put it with the rest of the outbound priority packages. It is worth noting that I sent out another package at the same time that made it to it’s destination with no issue at all. The stolen Uncovsky’s box made it to the buyer in under 48 hours from the time I sent it out, with his wife receiving it while he was at work. I was contacted by the buyer that evening (Wednesday, the 4th), who said that he received a box that was sealed, and had all the packing materials inside, but no knife at all. Buyer stated it must have been stolen by a postal employee, asserting that the tape on the bottom of the box had been cut, then carefully sealed back up. According to the buyer, while all the packing materials were in the box, the bubble envelope that was supposed to contain the knife was also cut open, empty, and placed back in the middle of the box. What is being asserted here is that a postal employee took the time to meticulously gain entry into a box, remove the valuable item inside from all of the packaging, replace everything just as it was, minus the knife in the metal box, and re-seal the bottom of the box with some more tape. The buyer stated that although he has had a few boxes stolen from his doorstep before, this is the first time he’s had this happen. I’ve never experienced anything like that myself, ever. The buyer’s funds have already been refunded, so he is made whole again, and has been in communication, providing any info he can, but I’m told that I may have a little difficulty getting my claim paid in a timely fashion, because the PO has the package recorded as successfully delivered. I should be clear that the buyer is a long time member, in good standing, with a perfect feedback score, who I’ve bought from in the past a couple times (and always had positive experiences).

I won’t add my opinion to this thread, as I’m obviously biased, but encourage the buyer, or anyone in the know, to correct any bad info I’ve put out here, add any helpful pics or relevant facts I’ve missed, and even his own take/opinion, if he’d like.

While a speedy/smooth resolution to this issue seems unlikely for me, I’m hoping that you members of this awesome community might read this, and somehow take away a piece of info that could save someone from going through this same thing in the future. Oh, and while you’re reading this, please take a look at the pics below of this amazing knife. It is now considered stolen property, and no duplicates exist, so BOLO please, and in the unlikely event anyone sees it at any point in the future, I’d be most grateful for a heads up.

Thanks for your time BF.
View attachment 1298105 View attachment 1298102 View attachment 1298103 View attachment 1298104 View attachment 1298106
Below, are pics, provided by the buyer, of the bottom of the box as he received it, and the packing materials therein.
View attachment 1298177 View attachment 1298176 View attachment 1298180 View attachment 1298179 View attachment 1298178

As Fullflat states above, I was the buyer, and we've had a couple of transactions through BF, all of which have been smooth. In this case, I have absolutely no complaints about the way he has handled this.

Just to be clear, though, I did not state it must have been stolen by a postal employee. I stated that if there was no opportunity for anyone to interfere with the package before it was dropped off at the post office, then it must have happened whilst in the custody of USPS.

Actually, my first reaction was that Fullflat had somehow forgotten to put the knife in the box, as it looked to be intact. But when I checked closely, I saw evidence that the bottom had been opened and re-sealed. The care that had been gone to to take the knife and then re-seal the box suggested to me that it could have been someone who knew that there was something of high value in the package, and I mentioned to Fullflat that my unfortunate suspicion would be that it was someone at the PO where he dropped it off, as they would know the amount it was insured for. However, he told me that he had dropped it directly into an automated system, which would seem to nix that theory.

I live in DC, and as Fullflat mentions, I have had a couple of packages stolen from my doorstep in over 10 years here, but I've never seen something like this before.

Fullflat Was the package handed directly to a postal employee and scanned or dropped into an automated system?

Also, was extra insurance purchased (above the standard insurance)? I ask, because I have been leery about doing that, as I suspected it would tip off PO employees that the is something of value in the package.

 

[Boru13]

Fullflat Also, was extra insurance purchased (above the standard insurance)?

It was insured for the discounted price of $480

As others have said, I know longer insure high dollar items.

Actually had my local PO recommend to not insure high dollar items because of the attention it draws, throws up the "steal me flag". If I'm concerned about the value I'll usually mail overnight, I figure the less time in the system the less time for someone to steal it.

 

[Boru13]

Fullflat
Something to consider in the future Seth.

There are two versions of the medium flat rat box, I always try and use the one that has the self sealing flaps on the ends as opposed to the type you used. If I have to use the version you used I super glue every flap on the box, then I'll tape it. Depending on the item I'll even super glue the flaps on the self sealing version and then tape.

Obviously the super glue doesn't make the package theft proof but it does make it more difficult and time consuming for the potential thief to gain access to the contents and reuse the packaging without evidence of tampering.

 

[Horsewright]

Sorry to hear this. I've had several knives stolen by postal employees. With certain exceptions I don't send knives through USPS anymore. The last episode was another knife maker had sent me several knives to make sheaths for them. These were stolen on the way back. You are in for a very frustrating time now dealing with a mindless bureaucracy. They will deny your insurance claim. If you appeal the denial they may pay you. Even with their own Postal Inspectors report attached to the claim stating that it was theft by a postal employee, they denied it. They did pay on appeal.. You will have hours and hours on the phone and a stack of paperwork about an inch high before its all said and done. Little while alter I saw one of the knives and sheaths for sale on Ebay. Notified the postal inspector and........crickets. Feel for ya cause been there. One of the other times, the employee was arrested. Front page of the newspaper had a pic showing him being put in the police car. Never got any of our product back.

So our in house policy is anything over $100 doesn't go by the PO. Again this is with certain exceptions. We do have some very rural customers that there only address is a PO box. Outside of that over $100 not by USPS.

 

[Fullflat]

Fullflat Was the package handed directly to a postal employee and scanned or dropped into an automated system?

Also, was extra insurance purchased (above the standard insurance)? I ask, because I have been leery about doing that, as I suspected it would tip off PO employees that the is something of value in the package.

Yes, extra insurance was purchased. The package was handed to a postal employee at the regional origin facility, who I then watched turn around and place it immediately on the conveyor. It would seem your being leery is warranted. Hope that helps. Enjoy this fine Sunday

 

[Fullflat]

As others have said, I know longer insure high dollar items.

Actually had my local PO recommend to not insure high dollar items because of the attention it draws, throws up the "steal me flag". If I'm concerned about the value I'll usually mail overnight, I figure the less time in the system the less time for someone to steal it.

Fullflat
Something to consider in the future Seth.

There are two versions of the medium flat rat box, I always try and use the one that has the self sealing flaps on the ends as opposed to the type you used. If I have to use the version you used I super glue every flap on the box, then I'll tape it. Depending on the item I'll even super glue the flaps on the self sealing version and then tape.

Obviously the super glue doesn't make the package theft proof but it does make it more difficult and time consuming for the potential thief to gain access to the contents and reuse the packaging without evidence of tampering.

All good stuff. Thanks, Carl. Your help and input are invaluable. Those are some sound, actionable tips that could make this situation less likely in the future. Have a great weekend brother

 

[LastRodeo]

Yes, extra insurance was purchased. The package was handed to a postal employee at the regional origin facility, who I then watched turn around and place it immediately on the conveyor. It would seem your being leery is warranted. Hope that helps. Enjoy this fine Sunday

I feel I have to mention, the last time I was at the post office to drop off my Priority Mail package (with the label I printed at home), the counter clerk refused to scan my package. She said their rules had changed and they no longer will scan a package at the window, when the postage wasn't purchased there. I steadfastly refused to not have it scanned, as it is not in the system until it is scanned. In my experience, making an insurance claim requires you have proof of acceptance. She eventually relented, only because she said the supervisor wasn't available to speak to me.
It appears the opportunity for theft is increasing, if not at every post office, definitely at my local PO.

 

[Fullflat]

Sorry to hear this. I've had several knives stolen by postal employees. With certain exceptions I don't send knives through USPS anymore. The last episode was another knife maker had sent me several knives to make sheaths for them. These were stolen on the way back. You are in for a very frustrating time now dealing with a mindless bureaucracy. They will deny your insurance claim. If you appeal the denial they may pay you. Even with their own Postal Inspectors report attached to the claim stating that it was theft by a postal employee, they denied it. They did pay on appeal.. You will have hours and hours on the phone and a stack of paperwork about an inch high before its all said and done. Little while alter I saw one of the knives and sheaths for sale on Ebay. Notified the postal inspector and........crickets. Feel for ya cause been there. One of the other times, the employee was arrested. Front page of the newspaper had a pic showing him being put in the police car. Never got any of our product back.

So our in house policy is anything over $100 doesn't go by the PO. Again this is with certain exceptions. We do have some very rural customers that there only address is a PO box. Outside of that over $100 not by USPS.

Thanks for the sympathies, and for the great advice. I really like your suggestion of not even using the PO for valuable items. In your incidences of theft, did the thieves open the boxes, remove the contents, replace all the packing materials meticulously, and seal it back up? Or, was the entire parcel stolen & never delivered? I ask, because I’m told when an item is stolen by a USPS employee, it’s almost always the entire package. As Monofletch mentioned, it seems like too much time consuming work for a postal carrier to do this sort of package surgery. Thanks again for the sage advice from a place of experience. Much appreciated!

 

[stonesell]

I feel I have to mention, the last time I was at the post office to drop off my Priority Mail package (with the label I printed at home), the counter clerk refused to scan my package. She said their rules had changed and they no longer will scan a package at the window, when the postage wasn't purchased there. I steadfastly refused to not have it scanned, as it is not in the system until it is scanned. In my experience, making an insurance claim requires you have proof of acceptance. She eventually relented, only because she said the supervisor wasn't available to speak to me.
It appears the opportunity for theft is increasing, if not at every post office, definitely at my local PO.

I wonder if that depends on the Post Office. I am in Oregon, and they are always very cheerful and polite about scanning my package with a PayPal printed label, and giving me a detailed receipt.

 

[Horsewright]

Thanks for the sympathies, and for the great advice. I really like your suggestion of not even using the PO for valuable items. In your incidences of theft, did the thieves open the boxes, remove the contents, replace all the packing materials meticulously, and seal it back up? Or, was the entire parcel stolen & never delivered? I ask, because I’m told when an item is stolen by a USPS employee, it’s almost always the entire package. As Monofletch mentioned, it seems like too much time consuming work for a postal carrier to do this sort of package surgery. Thanks again for the sage advice from a place of experience. Much appreciated!

D. All the above! The last one was very clearly sliced open. Then here was the beginning of the mindless part. It was in one of their padded envelopes, bubble wrapped and taped. They attached the opened envelope to a form letter that said your package came open during processing and the contents have been misplaced. If you would of used our packaging this wouldn’t have happened. The mindlessness continued as the letter said you should of included return address and the receiver’s address inside the package so we can ensure delivery when contents come out of a package. They were kind enough to staple our invoice/receipt to this letter. Ya know the one that had our address and the customer’s address on it. Even though the envelope was very clearly sliced open with a very sharp knife, they would not even let us file a claim for 30 days. One other time we did have an empty and resealed package delivered like in your case.

 

[Fullflat]

D. All the above! The last one was very clearly sliced open. Then here was the beginning of the mindless part. It was in one of their padded envelopes, bubble wrapped and taped. They attached the opened envelope to a form letter that said your package came open during processing and the contents have been misplaced. If you would of used our packaging this wouldn’t have happened. The mindlessness continued as the letter said you should of included return address and the receiver’s address inside the package so we can ensure delivery when contents come out of a package. They were kind enough to staple our invoice/receipt to this letter. Ya know the one that had our address and the customer’s address on it. Even though the envelope was very clearly sliced open with a very sharp knife, they would not even let us file a claim for 30 days. One other time we did have an empty and resealed package delivered like in your case.

Unreal! So sorry you’ve had to deal with this kind of stuff multiple times. Nothing like a slap in the face via form letter to make you feel better after you’ve just been stolen from. Unfortunately, it’s seeming like these are the costs of doing business these days, and I’m glad to know you’ve found more secure alternate methods. Hope it’s a lovely Sunday out on the ranch brother

 

[Horsewright]

Thanks and yes sir it is. Was suppose to snow last night but didn’t. Gorgeous today. Gotta go see a man bout a horse. No I really do! Been a long time since I’ve been horse shopping.

 

[LastRodeo]

I wonder if that depends on the Post Office. I am in Oregon, and they are always very cheerful and polite about scanning my package with a PayPal printed label, and giving me a detailed receipt.

Even though she eventually relented in scanning the package, she adamantly refused to provide me with a receipt. Afterwards, I suspected that it was because you probably are able to complete a customer service feedback if you have info from the receipt. She probably has gotten enough bad customer service complaints that she knows how to thwart that process.

I thought to myself, if my job was working at the counter at the post office, I would want to have more customers come to the counter, it would mean job security. Other people are differently motivated, I guess.

 

[Night Rider]

Op i'm not sure how far the post office would investigate this claim but surely they could lift a fingerprint off the adhesive layer of the packing tape. maybe I've been watching too much CSI but it's just a thought. PS Sorry for you loss and good luck with your claim.

 

[Fullflat]

Op i'm not sure how far the post office would investigate this claim but surely they could lift a fingerprint off the adhesive layer of the packing tape. maybe I've been watching too much CSI but it's just a thought. PS Sorry for you loss and good luck with your claim.

The buyer was kind enough to hang onto all of the packaging for me, so that I can provide it to the postal inspector. It’ll be interesting at least, to see if they do anything with it. Thanks very much for the kind words! Hope you’re having a great weekend

 

[RayseM]

Good luck with the recoup. Two great BF members and an exquisite knife involved - I hope this all works out for the best - though the best will not likely include @Brummie getting the knife.

Lots of great advice above as regards to mailing procedure. I'm very happy with my little rural post office and company - couldn't be better, more efficient, more honest, more friendly, less bureaucratic. Lucky me.

 

[Jcsixx01]

I haven’t had any major issues with USPS, but some shady stuff has happened (I also live in the DC area). Things like packages getting marked as delivered that clearly weren’t. I, personally, trust my mail carrier as he has helped track down the package when it was marked delivered. He’s a good dude.

I also don’t insure my packages thinking it would make them a more obvious target. I always wrap the box of any knife I ship in newspaper before placing it in the shipping packaging. That way if someone does “accidentally” open the packaging, they would have to unwrap the package to find out the contents. It may not be a major deterrent, but it has given me far more peace of mind than paying for additional insurance. Besides, it makes every knife purchased from me like opening a present.

 

[Fullflat]

I haven’t had any major issues with USPS, but some shady stuff has happened (I also live in the DC area). Things like packages getting marked as delivered that clearly weren’t. I, personally, trust my mail carrier as he has helped track down the package when it was marked delivered. He’s a good dude.

I also don’t insure my packages thinking it would make them a more obvious target. I always wrap the box of any knife I ship in newspaper before placing it in the shipping packaging. That way if someone does “accidentally” open the packaging, they would have to unwrap the package to find out the contents. It may not be a major deterrent, but it has given me far more peace of mind than paying for additional insurance. Besides, it makes every knife purchased from me like opening a present.

It’s a bit unsettling to know package loss or theft is so prevalent around the DC area right now. It’s sad to say, but knowing that, it seems like the most prudent thing for me to do going forward is to politely decline to sell or ship to anyone in that region, until the PO there gets their stuff together. Thanks very much for your input!