Strider SNG - This Thing ROCKS!!! A Brief Review w/ CRK Comparisons... (Pic Heavy)

[GarrettWeidman]

By that logic, wouldn't the Umnumzaan have one of the worst lockups imaginable, since the point of contact is a small ceramic ball embedded in the lock face, rather than the whole titanium lock face itself?

Obviously, I'm not actually suggesting that the Umnumzaan has a poor lockup or a poorly engineered lock: I have complete faith in the lockup on my 'Zaan, just like I do in the lockup on my Striders or any other well-built frame or liner lock. But what I am suggesting is that your attempt at reasoning from an engineering standpoint is highly suspect.

My reasoning was for wear purposes, I wasn't really speaking towards strength, the blade contacting a small point on the ti lockbar will wear the ti lockbar much faster than if the hole lockbar is making contact with the blade, this wear is what causes the vertical blade play

the umnum has the ceramic ball contacting the blade which is a lot harder than the titanium in the previous situation, meaning that it will wear much less than the small titanium contact point on striders

 

[Ankerson]

My reasoning was for wear purposes, I wasn't really speaking towards strength, the blade contacting a small point on the ti lockbar will wear the ti lockbar much faster than if the hole lockbar is making contact with the blade, this wear is what causes the vertical blade play

the umnum has the ceramic ball contacting the blade which is a lot harder than the titanium in the previous situation, meaning that it will wear much less than the small titanium contact point on striders

Don't think any of them will wear out that fast unless one just sits there opening and closing their knife hundreds of a times a day playing with it. (Like some tend to do for some reason)

Under normal use I doubt either would have a problem for a very long time, then with the warranties they have they would be put back in spec without a problem.

 

[5.56]

You gotta love all the different flavors

 

[Ankerson]

You gotta love all the different flavors

Yeah one could go broke in a real hurry collecting all of them.

 

[neuron]

My reasoning was for wear purposes, I wasn't really speaking towards strength, the blade contacting a small point on the ti lockbar will wear the ti lockbar much faster than if the hole lockbar is making contact with the blade, this wear is what causes the vertical blade play

the umnum has the ceramic ball contacting the blade which is a lot harder than the titanium in the previous situation, meaning that it will wear much less than the small titanium contact point on striders

Thanks for clarifying. The discussion so far about lockup, at least from what I can tell, seems to be more about lock strength than about wear. Obviously, if we're talking about wear, the hardness of the ceramic ball confers advantages (although like Jim said, under normal numbers of openings/closings per day it's likely not going to be an issue regardless of whether the lock face is ceramic, steel, or titanium).

Also, just out of curiosity, I double checked the lockup on my XM-18, and the lockbar and blade tang are set up to engage in same way as the Strider (i.e., with only the part of the lockbar farthest from the blade stop making contact).

Finally, in case anyone might be interested, here (from the Strider FAQ at one major dealer) is Mick's explanation of why they make the lockup the way they do:

38. Why does only the lower section of the lock bar contact the blade on Strider Folders?

Per Mick Strider: "The reason we only want contact at the lower section of the lock bar is this:

1. For the most solid lock, you need two points of contact, as far apart as possible. (bump stop and lock face)

2. For the most solid lock, your lock contact should be as far away from the center line of the pivot as possible. This keeps your lock from "rolling" off the blade.

3. No matter how far from the pivot center your lock surface is, if its contaminated with crap (sand), it will fail. We send knives into some nasty shit. This is a huge concern for us. By making contact at the lowest section only, it creates a "shit vent" above the lock surface. That is the same reason we make our detent hole go all the way through the blade....its a "shit vent"."

 

[nevermind35]

Hmmm this is a very interesting discussion. I was not aware of how Striders locked up different from most other companies or of the "shit vent". It definately does make sense though that the further away from the pivot the lockup occurs, the more it will take to make that lock fail. I still have never owned a Strider even though I've been eyeing them since I first came to the forums. I've had most of the other popular knives that people tend to lump into the same category but have held off on the Striders because I'm unfortunately a bit of a stickler for fit and finish. However it does look like they are starting to improve from what I've seen on the forums lately. I think I'll wait it out a few more months and then finally take the plunge on an digicam SNG.

 

[Medic1210]

So they're actually designed to only have a small part of that HUGE lockbar actually contacting the blade tang? Wow. Interesting. Is this design because it would take a lot more tighter tolerances to actually get things to line up like the CRK? Also, I noticed the Ti slab is heat flamed, so I have to wonder, is this a "custom" Strider, or is this finish offered standard? If it's a custom, there is absolutely no excuse for that pitiful logo stamping. Personally, there is no excuse for that stamping on a production knife when you're dealing with a $400 knife in the first place. That's something I'd expect to see on a $10 knockoff I see in the Haji shops here on base in Afghanistan. These are my personal opinions, so take them for what they're worth. I've never owned a Strider, and never plan on owning one, but when photos like these show an obvious QC issue like the poor logo stamping, you can't help but wonder what other QC issues are there that you don't see.

Edit: I read Mick's explanation posted above. I think the grain of salt I took it with slipped through the $hit vent.

 

[Medic1210]

you want the blade tang to engage the lockbar from the point which is farthest away from the blade-stop (the thumb stud that touches the titanium frame slab). this optimizes the lock-up and is what every maker should be doing.

Or even better still, have the blade tang and lockbar contact perfectly flush along the whole lock bar like the CRK. I do understand that in order to do that, you have to have your parts machined perfectly, or else you may end up with just the closest part of the lock bar engaging. Actually designing it so that only a small part of the furthest part of the lockbar touches allows for slop and variation in blade tang grinds.

 

[Medic1210]

It's easy to get perfect F&F when knives are made by the thousands on CNC machines, something most people will never understand.

So are you saying that Strider blades and Ti Slabs aren't machined on a CNC? I don't know, and am actually genuine with my question. I would be surprised to hear they're cut out by hand. In regards to the "it's easy to get perfect F&F when knives are made... on CNC machines...." comment, the discussion of whether a Sebenza was "worth the price" had a machinist basically debunk that myth.

Quoted from a recent "Sebenza overrated" thread...

You seem to think having a CNC and a program will magically make a good product...I'm a professional machinist, not everyone with a CNC can make good product, the machine you use, the depth of programming the controller can handle, the program itself, the tooling, the spindle accuracy, the conditions of the shop (eg. ambient temperature) can ALL effect the final outcome. To educate you in the finesse of machining would take years of first hand experience which I have.

Like I said, you have no idea what it takes.

 

[misterjuiceman]

Actually this makes me curious..

Should the lockup be flush (like my CRK and ZT with no play) or like the OPs Strider (with no play)?

Ankerson, are you suggesting that the CRK flush lockup is somehow inferior? Do you have empirical data for this claim?

Good conversation so far.

first of all, I don't think CRK has a "flush" lockup. take a look at the Umnumzaan; it exemplifies the principle that I referenced in my previous post. the point at which the tang locks into the lockbar is the top of the ceramic detent, and it's as far from the blade stops as possible. I think the Sebenza is the same way, it just might not be as apparent.

if you want empirical data, go check out the knives that ACTUALLY have the lockbar flush with the tang. meaning the entire length of the lockbar engages the tang. in that case, the blade will rock back if you apply enough pressure to the tip of the blade, downward, fighting the lockup. to minimize this, you want to do what Strider does, and what most decent framelocks do.

Or even better still, have the blade tang and lockbar contact perfectly flush along the whole lock bar like the CRK. I do understand that in order to do that, you have to have your parts machined perfectly, or else you may end up with just the closest part of the lock bar engaging. Actually designing it so that only a small part of the furthest part of the lockbar touches allows for slop and variation in blade tang grinds.

they're not perfectly flush on a CRK. it might look that way, but it's the same as the Strider. if you guys are going to knock Strider, knock them for something they've done wrong, not something they've done right. this is coming from someone who is a BIG fan of CRK, and who has never owned a Strider. so I'm not biased in the least. I'd be more upset about

 

[SteelSnob]

I had problems with a Strider as well. It seems like some people just can't accept that Striders arent perfect. Strider's aren't that great and their QC and customer service are some of the worst I've ever encountered. They no longer even answer their main phone number. That should tell you something about how much they care about their customers. And it's said some people go in to accusations and some weird form of fan boy denial if you say anything that isnt praise about Striders. And let's not even go in to Mickey Burger and all his BS he pulled.

 

[JNewell]

The great thing about threads here on Strider or on CRK is the amount of irrational entertainment value they provide. Bring me my popcorn, please?

I have owned 4 (Still have 2) and none of them have had that problem, and I have held quite a few over the years and none of them had issues either.

I must be doing something wrong. All four of mine are actually perfect (PT, 2xSnG, SMF). I should return them to Strider so they can screw them up, the way people seem to think they're supposed to ship.

 

[cktenders]

Just to play devil's advocate, my small Sebenza 21 Insingo developed VERTICAL blade play after some whittling. I have sold the rest of my folders after I got it (cause I genuinely like it) but am contemplating getting a strider to hold me over while I send it in to CRK. Luck of the draw I suppose.

 

[Toyz]

To the OP - nice SnG. I had one a while back but let it go as it was a little too small for me.

I carry a SmF with dual gunner grips and digicam blade. It's dominating my pocket at this time.

I just ordered an AR linerlock and SmF with S110V steel.

I like Striders. I've researched them to death for years, and read ALL the stuff about them, including the demise of their forum here and at other places. The knives are tough, built for hard use, and in my experiences dependable. I like that in a knife. I really like the double choil - it gives the owner a real sense of security and control when holding a large knife such as the SmF. You sacrifice cutting length, but I'm ok with that.

I like their designs, their mixing and matching of materials, and the variations they offer. I wish some other knife makers would expand their thinking on these points like Strider has.

I've never had bad lock up. I've also never had fit and finish issues with these knives. I don't get involved in their politics - I'm not perfect, therefore I cannot in good conscience cast a stone. Deliver a good product with good materials and I'll consider spending some of my money with you.

A double stamp on the blade would not bother me in the least. They are made to be used, and if used as designed - there will be bigger and badder scratches / marks on the knife than that.

I've posted this link before - this is a good guide that Knifeart.com has on their website that might answer some of the questions you have about the knives. I refer to it from time to time.

Let us know how it's going after you've had the chance to use it for a while.

http://www.knifeart.com/strider.html

 

[Buffalohump]

FYI that tiny gap between clip and the ti slab is intentional, not a manufacturing error.

 

[misterjuiceman]

FYI that tiny gap between clip and the ti slab is intentional, not a manufacturing error.

yeah, I don't consider that to be an issue either.

 

[LightGuy]

The only thng wrong with it was the Strider name stamp, looks like someone slipped a little.

The lockbar /tang is designed that way and always has been.

People who don't know and or never owned them wouldn't know that.

Thanks for clarifying this Ankerson. I'll claim ignorance on this one - it's true I've never owned one previously. I definitely didn't want to slam their F&F by bringing this up. I just assumed (you know what that does..) that this was the reason for the lockbar stickiness, which is really an issue. My brother actually handed it back to me to show him how to get it closed. It get's pretty stuck...

Anyway, I corrected this mis-statement about the tang/lockbar alignment in my OP.

 

[neuron]

The great thing about threads here on Strider or on CRK is the amount of irrational entertainment value they provide. Bring me my popcorn, please?

I must be doing something wrong. All four of mine are actually perfect (PT, 2xSnG, SMF). I should return them to Strider so they can screw them up, the way people seem to think they're supposed to ship.

Hahaha...this pretty much sums it up. And yeah, I have at least that many myself, and all of them have ranged from excellent to perfect in their F&F. I bet somebody in Strider's QC department got in a lot of trouble for letting those slip through.

 

[Ankerson]

Thanks for clarifying this Ankerson. I'll claim ignorance on this one - it's true I've never owned one previously. I definitely didn't want to slam their F&F by bringing this up. I just assumed (you know what that does..) that this was the reason for the lockbar stickiness, which is really an issue. My brother actually handed it back to me to show him how to get it closed. It get's pretty stuck...

Anyway, I corrected this mis-statement about the tang/lockbar alignment in my OP.

Grab a sharpie or pencil and mark the tang were the lockbar engages, you will see a mark there, that will make it easier to open until it fully breaks in.

 

[Medic1210]

they're not perfectly flush on a CRK. it might look that way, but it's the same as the Strider.

I'd have to disagree, at least as the Sebenza is concerned as I have no experience with the Umnum. Take a Sebenza, and open the blade. Now in a dim or dark room, shine a light between the scales. If the design was like that of the Strider, you'd clearly see light shining in the gap. On my large Seb, all but the innermost ~1mm block all traces of light. There is a solid 5-6mm of lock bar/blade tang contact. Shine a light between the scales of the Strider and see how many millimeters of contact there is.