Strider vs. Manix

[Blop]

I am pleased too, when ppl. behind a product are nice. That supports the decision to buy from them. But in fact it is minor.

What is not solved to me is:

"What can a SnG do, that a Manix can´t?"

Or vice versa: "What can a Manix do, that a SnG can´t?"

That is the most important question here and not solved. IMHO.

 

[Cliff Stamp]

"What can a SnG do, that a Manix can´t?"

It has a thicker blade so it could stand higher prying forces through the main blade body.

"What can a Manix do, that a SnG can´t?"

More secure lock, better able to take impacts and torques, so a wider scope or work. Handle ergonomics and security are improved for some - others like Strider grips though, so better work for extended use.

-Cliff

 

[runT1ME]

Well, what about spine wacks? Have we found out if Lockback is prone to becoming disengaged if struck hard enough?

 

[fulloflead]

Well, what about spine wacks? Have we found out if Lockback is prone to becoming disengaged if struck hard enough?

....................

 

[Carl64]

Well, what about spine wacks? Have we found out if Lockback is prone to becoming disengaged if struck hard enough?

I don't have the model in question, but no. Lockbacks can easily be made to pass a spine whack of any strength. The handles can be as stiff as you want, just by choosing good material. It is no more difficult to make it pass the test than fail it, just a matter of choosing an angle and knowing enough to choose it correctly. Manufacturing accuracy is less of a concern than you would think, as I have tried some really cheap lockbacks that don't fail.

Some fail really easy (small plastic Bucks and Gerber EZ-out), others I can't make fail with all my strength (Buck 110, steel handle Delica, FRN Delica, Cold Steel Voyager). The minibuck I could see preparing to fail just with hand pressure. More "good" ones in the "pass" list, but a Voyager is only about $35.

Another "pass" was literally a gas station knife. $3 for a Spyderco knock-off, possibly a Frost because it has that eagle on the handle. Not well made in the least, except the lock would not fail. I even put it in a vice and pressed down really hard. I didn't go too far because I was afraid the cheap steel might break.

I haven't tried the whack test on enough frame locks to judge the whole lock type, but I would be more worried about what Cliff calls the torque failure. That means you have the knife in your hand, and your hand twists a little. A fist doesn't just squeeze the slabs together, it squeezes in about equal from all directions. This can easily disengage almost any framelock I have tried except the stronges springs which make it ridiculosuly difficult to unlock on purpose (haven't tried a Strider). A lot of them you don't need too extreme of a test to see. Just pinch the blade, fist the handle tightly, and wiggle your fist around while putting closing pressure on the blade. This failure scares me because it is so dependent on the exact angle of your arm and hand movements. Careful cutting is not a problem, but a standard stabbing motion is at risk. You don't risk getting kicked out of a store for doing this, so I test every single folder I pick up for it, and I have to say the whack test is pointless for most of them because they fail the torque test under must less force than a whack test involves. Lockbacks don't have a torque failure problem because it just doesn't affect their lock format, unless the handle is so weak it could twist out of shape.

 

[Cliff Stamp]

... as I have tried some really cheap lockbacks that don't fail.

It is amusing to me that you can find really cheap knives with locks which easily handle uses that custom makers cry abuse and rant about fixed blades, it seems just insane that a high end custom or production can't match the performance of a $2 made in taiwan no-name blade.

Some cheap liners are really bad, some are actually decently solid and can take impacts and need decent torques to unlock, far more than what people accept as "normal" use. I don't even think I have seen a cheap lockbacks fail, you can break the lock of course but that is a different matter.

....what Cliff calls the torque failure.

Joe and Barr came up with the three standard tests, spine impacts, white knuckling and torquing. Steve Harvey took the spine impacts to a new level and direction using much heavier forces which can actually break locks not just release them.

-Cliff

 

[Blop]

It has a thicker blade so it could stand higher prying forces through the main blade body.

It is not the question that a thicker blade will do that mathematicly. There will be no doubt.

It is more the question which tasks can be done by the SnG where the Manix would fail. Which window can only be pryed open with a SnG because the Manix will definatly break? Which window can be pryed open with the Manix?

How much of a difference will it make? Much or less? Enough to accept a bit of badder cutting power? Do those different windows exist? Are windows in general more like SnG style or are they in general weak enough to be pryed open with a Manix?

How would you come around in the same job with another (thinner bladed) folder? What different technic has to be used?

 

[Cliff Stamp]

How much of a difference will it make? Much or less?

Stiffness is not linear with thickness, thus a small change makes a massive difference. Going from ~5/32 to 3/16" is about a 70% increase in strength assuming similar blade style. You can really notice the difference on a 3/16" and 1/4" long blade, they don't act at all the same, one is very easy to bend and one is really stiff, completely different behavior.

Enough to accept a bit of badder cutting power?

This influences cutting ability a lot less than it influences cutting power. I have done comparisons in the past for example of a Boye knife in ~1/4" stock to a Deerhunter in 1/16". On a lot of cutting they are very similar because it only depends on the edge geometry to a great extent (rope aand wood cutting), however on heavy cardboard and stiff vegetables, thick insulation, etc., the thin blade can be many times more efficient.

How would you come around in the same job with another (thinner bladed) folder? What different technic has to be used?

On thin blades if you want to pry you have to load them through the height not the thickness, you can also twist them to load them torsionally which again they are *many* times over stronger than laterally. For some tasks you can't do the same prying task at all and have to cut or carve instead which takes a lot longer.

For example recently I was removing some fencing wire and had to pop out a few u nails. With the Fulcrum I just used a rock to pound the blade in behind the nail and just leveraged it out. With a Vapor I had to chisel out the wood until I could pull the nail out.

I would agree in general with people praising extreme tough knives based on their toughness and strength it would be informative to list exactly what they used these for that you could not do with other folders. Which knives have they broken which lead to the need for the overbuilt ones.

This of course goes for other attributes as well, comparisons are in general very informative. In general though, a lot of the times you will see people carrying such really heavy folders and just noting uses that not only a Manix could easily handle but an Opinel would as well and in fact do it much better.

-Cliff

 

[Blop]

I would agree in general with people praising extreme tough knives based on their toughness and strength it would be informative to list exactly what they used these for that you could not do with other folders. Which knives have they broken which lead to the need for the overbuilt ones.

This of course goes for other attributes as well, comparisons are in general very informative. In general though, a lot of the times you will see people carrying such really heavy folders and just noting uses that not only a Manix could easily handle but an Opinel would as well and in fact do it much better.

-Cliff

Hehehe, very well said! :thumbup:

 

[ejr490]

I have both knives here and they are both great knives. Been a big fan of Spyderco for a long time and was very excited when the Manix came out.

Also got a Stridr Sng and the little brother PT.

I have used my Strider in the last two months to score sheet rock and tile, scrap plumers puddy from under a toilet, scrap paint, its a tanto which works well for scraping, cut all kinds of crap cardboard, newspaper, cloth, and rubber sheeting, any kind of rope twine or sting I could get my hands on. I used to to trim wood molding, cut plastic and foil pouches of chemical reagents I use at work for water chemestry. Basically I use it for everything and carry it in my jeans pocket all day long.

The Manix is a great knife too I did not do all the things to it I did with the Strider, mainly because I paid $300 (used) for the Strider and want to see if a knife that price can handle it or if it is just pertty!

The Strider so far has held up greatly, it has never unlocked, or failed at all. Look at the size of the pivot pin on the Strider that the blade rides on. Its large. I can't see the Strider flexing that much. The new Hinder lock keeps the lock from springing too. Strider keeps inproving their line as things show up that don't work right. I mean they should for what theri knives go for right?

For me the Manix is a great knife but too large for me to carry comfortabaly in my pocket. It would make a great woods knife. And I'm sure it would hold up well. I like the handle and the rocker lock, never had a problem with these locks on any of my Spyderco's. Except one Endura that broke its lock because I was using it as a throwing knife! Not really the knifes fault.

As far as grip shape goes that's really a personal thing. I like the slim up front knives, Endura's, Delica's and the Sng. But I personally think one of the most comfortable knives to use is the Emerson's they have great handles. But I'd like a heavier liner lock. Like the new HD ones! I have two emersons I play with often and CQC8 and a PSARK, both fine knives. And I do carry them from time to time. But the Manix just doesn't ride well in my pocket, I like the knife just wish they had made it a little smoother and slimmer.

So far my Strider has done all it was supposed to do and did it well. Got no complaints about it. I mean I'd be happy if they were not so expensive! But hey I guess you do get what you pay for.

Just my 2 cents.
Ed