"Suck it up and just accept G&S"...thoughts?

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Docscoot

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Sorry if this isn't the right forum, please advise if I should take it elsewhere.

I'm just seeing a lot of sale posts saying things like "due to new tax laws I cannot accept G&S". I'm finding this is starting to irk me. A couple points. First, it's just a misrepresentation of what's going on. You were always on your honor to pay taxes on any profit from sales, end of story. The new "tax laws" are just about which documentation is actually going to the IRS. Yes I'm annoyed by it as well, maybe it bumps up the work load for us when we're filing taxes, but in actual reality nothing has changed, it's just gotten more tricky to dodge tax liability. I've now filed my taxes with the new reporting, included my 1099 and receipts, and it just wasn't that much work. I've gone back and forth on this a lot, but that's basically where I've landed.

My second point is I'm worried with many/most of us now only taking F&F, Zelle, etc., this is just going to provide a ton of cover to actual scammers. I'm curious what others think. Have hacked accounts or scam sales already started to increase? Anyone being burned by these posts yet? I'm worried that ultimately an increase in scam sales is going to be the unintended consequence of this new 1099 reporting business. Curious what the experience has been so far.
 
A seller can ask whatever payment method he/she deems fit. Nobody HAS to buy anything if they don't want to. Some of us buy/sell/trade more than others in a year. I don't want to get taxed over selling my used knives that I've already paid taxes on, so I'll start asking F/F on all of my future sales as well.
 
91bravo said:
A seller can ask whatever payment method he/she deems fit. Nobody HAS to buy anything if they don't want to. Some of us buy/sell/trade more than others in a year. I don't want to get taxed over selling my used knives that I've already paid taxes on, so I'll start asking F/F on all of my future sales as well.
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They sure can. But the unintended consequence will be to provide massive cover to scammers, that's my thought on this.
 
ferider said:
How anyone files their taxes is their own business in my book.

Paying F&F with my AMEX gives me much better protection than sending cash via G&S. Takes me a less than 5’ phone call to get my money back. Just saying :)
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Good point. And I'm not questioning how anyone files taxes, just the way folks are misrepresenting the "new tax laws". It's disingenuous and/or confused at best.

Just curious since I've only used F&F with folks I've dealt with enough before, and have just sent cash. When you do do the Amex route that way, do you pay a fee on your end? Is it more than the G&S fee on the seller's end? That definitely seems like a good work around to avoid G&S if seller is willing to lower price a tad.
 
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Docscoot said:
They sure can. But the unintended consequence will be to provide massive cover to scammers, that's my thought on this.
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This is the false pretext that those implementing these rules would have you believe. This is an attempt squeeze a few more tax dollars out of MILLIONS of people. This is theft... pure and simple. The IRS has shown itself to be the most prolific "scammer" in US history. Theyve seized peoples assets for YEARS while they "investigate". In many cases they never repay what they've taken. Ill take my chances with a non-government funded scammer. They arent going to freeze my accounts. You do you
 
Thedude315 said:
This is the false pretext that those implementing these rules would have you believe. This is an attempt squeeze a few more tax dollars out of MILLIONS of people. This is theft... pure and simple. The IRS has shown itself to be the most prolific "scammer" in US history. Theyve seized people assets for YEARS while they "investigate". Ill take my chances with a non-government funded scammer. They arent going to freeze my accounts. You do you
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I understand every word of this and get where you're coming from. I'm saying be as idealistic as you like, but also be realistic about unintended consequences which might hurt the hobby. This is why policy is so hard to do well. Could be worse, we could be in Canada :)
 
Don’t buy from someone that doesn’t have positive feedback and at least a gold level account then. The difference now vs. before is you did not have to file if you did not make a profit on a sale. Now the onus is on us to prove to the IRS that we didn’t make a profit on a knife. Which it is near impossible to track down past receipts on many of the knives some of us buy, and I question whether an unlabeled mystery payment from PayPal would be classified as a receipt, but maybe someone with more knowledge on that can confirm.

I also never had much faith in PayPal G&S to begin with. If I get scammed I could go through my credit card much easier.

Bottom line: you’re not required to buy a knife from anyone, and they are not required to sell it to you. If a buyer doesn’t trust me, then I’ll move on to the next person. I don’t make profits on almost any knife I sell. If I’m going to have to spend hours proving that for no reason, then this hobby will lose a lot of the ease and enjoyment I get from it.
 
RousingRabbles said:
Don’t buy from someone that doesn’t have positive feedback and at least a gold level account then. The difference now vs. before is you did not have to file if you did not make a profit on a sale. Now the onus is on us to prove to the IRS that we didn’t make a profit on a knife. Which it is near impossible to track down past receipts on many of the knives some of us buy, and I question whether an unlabeled mystery payment from PayPal would be classified as a receipt, but maybe someone with more knowledge on that can confirm.

I also, never had much faith in PayPal G&S to begin with. If I get scammed I could go through my credit card much easier.

Bottom line: you’re not required to buy a knife from anyone, and they are not required to sell it to you. If a buyer doesn’t trust me, then I’ll move on to the next person. I don’t make profits on almost any knife I sell. If I’m going to have to spend hours proving that for no reason, then this hobby will lose a lot of the ease and enjoyment I get from it.
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That's a good point as well, I have no idea how much actual protection G&S provides. I just worry the account hacking and fake sales will rise to the level of really destroying this site as a great forum for our hobby.
 
Docscoot said:
I just worry the account hacking and fake sales will rise to the level of really destroying this site as a great forum for our hobby.
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I tend to believe scammers will take the path of least resistance. IMO they will typically deal through private messages because it’s less eyes on the scam and less people to potentially call them out. F&F has always been an option on here, so it’s not like anything has changed at all for potential scammers. One option is you can always ask a seller for a timestamp of the knife with the accurate date written down. Not fool proof, but it works well on another forum I use.
 
bax229 said:
"Suck it up"? Are you willing to pay $400 for a knife, only to sell it for $300, and then report the $300 as income? I feel this topic has already been debated to the ends of the earth.
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It seems to me you entirely misunderstand the relevant tax implications and laws here. Nobody is saying the $300 is income in this case. You're right it has been debated to the ends of the earth, but I'm not sure you paid any attention.
 
And to be clear, I'm not saying anyone should "suck it up", that was just the phrasing that I chose as the point for debate. Wanted replies so went with something I thought would provoke them.
 
bax229 said:
The IRS is...just ask anyone how received a 1099 from PayPal.

Please explain

No need to be rude here...you asked for "thoughts"
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Sorry to be rude, not my intent, totally my bad there, I was getting a troll vibe but it was my mis-read, bad multitasking on my part!

The 1099 is simply a report of money going into your PayPal account, not of taxable income. 1099 plus receipts will bring your income to zero on this. You need to file the paperwork which is certainly annoying and a waste of time. The $300 is not income. Your income is either zero, or you have a $100 loss to count against your taxable income, depending on whether you choose to file this as Schedule C, Schedule D, miscellaneous "other" income, etc., totally between you and your tax preparer. But in no case is there the expectation you are paying taxes on a loss.
 
But the "misrepresentation" is being done by the IRS wanting to tax "income"... which in this case for the most part is not income but amounts to taxing you a second time for something. There are ways to take precautions in who you deal with and scammers have accepted G&S also. So that isn't a good predictor of a scammer.
 
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