Suggestions to speed up reprofile process

My bucket is ment toward largemouth bass lol. I have never heard of using vasaline before I'll give that a try thanks for the tip! Is an ace harware dark grey and light grey stone a crystolon? If so I have one sitting in some mineral oil right now but never use it because it dries out so fast
 
David Martin said:
bucket, that grease looks bad. Did you get all that out of one stone? These are replacement stones for Norton's Tri-Hone. The scratch pattern from the Norton SiC coarse is close to that of the X coarse DMT. There are too many 'buckets' running around this topic. :) DM
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Hi,
thats secondcrack's picture , from Re: India Stone - coarse which says
That's a picture of the approximately 30mls of grease that came out of my India stone, some grease was dissolved in the soapy water it was boiled in, I had removed some previously, and some still remains in the stone. I estimate there's around 50-60mls in each stone on average, but that estimate is very rough.

It's almost identical to petroleum jelly, but darker and more odorous. I find the stone better to use and less messy when using diluted cleaning solution (simple green, etc) rather than with oil, and having boiled it the cleaner works better than before.

If I was using oil I would not boil the stone, and even if using water it might be better to leave the grease in; I just was not prepared to put up with grease leaks and stains any longer. Working better with cleaning solution as a lubricant is a side benefit.
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There are other interesting pics in there like this that shows the grease doesn't fill all the holes
PICT0011640x480_zps6f8f29b0.jpg
 
Bucketmouth said:
My bucket is ment toward largemouth bass lol. I have never heard of using vasaline before I'll give that a try thanks for the tip! Is an ace harware dark grey and light grey stone a crystolon? If so I have one sitting in some mineral oil right now but never use it because it dries out so fast
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Hi,
What size stone is it? 6in? It might be alumox or crystolon
If its other size its has greater chance of being crystolon

Compare this picture Can anyone tell me anything about this stone?
to this one Recommendation? SiC stone help, opinions and theories thread.

These two examples look kinda identical to me,
but the guys say one looks like alumox and the other like sic,
if you're in ace hardware and compare the stones side by side,
one will be lighter than the others, and that one is alumox

The guys also say
alumox is heavier than SiC but doesn't really smell
while SiC has more of a chemicaly smell kinda like burnt rubber smell


The only way to find out is to use it to sharpen knives,
and note if it glazes/wears/goes shiny eventually (likely alumox)
or if it releases some grit and just keeps cutting same speed (likely sic)



If you scratch it with a nail or point of a blade or a sharp rock, is the line of powder white ?
Then its likely alumox ...

but I don't have ace stones so I can't tell you for sure :)
 
FWIW, all of my recent Norton stones have been pre loaded with oil. My ACE stone probably not, tho I immediately used it with oil so tough to say. The ACE SiC stone is generally more expensive and darker color than the AlumOx. I've had good luck with older Vermont American US made ALumOx stones, it even made a nice mud when used with oil. I suspect there aren't many manufacturers making these, so like as not it came from the same place as the ACE stone.

User friendly coarse stones are not common IMHO. Depending on what its used for, so opinions are going to vary even with people using the same equipment.

My Crystalon stones 8x3 set *JB83 were so well treated when dropped in a bucket of water not a single bubble came out. Taking them out of the water, narry a drop stayed on the surface.

I have boiled a recent India Hecho en Mexico and a bunch of grease came out. I didn't collect it, but it was more of a whitish color, at least at close to boiling temps. Fully cooled it may have darkened up - I washed it down the drain with a load of dish soap and a dishwashing machine slug. The fine side was so completely packed with grease that I could make out no voids in the surface prior to boiling.

Vaseline loaded into the stone helps, one can also rub some canning wax (paraffin) and hit for a second with hair dryer or hot air gun - both materials will mix readily with mineral oil and keep the oil on the surface better. Using a scrubbing short pass helps as well.
 
Bucketmouth said:
My bucket is ment toward largemouth bass lol. I have never heard of using vasaline before I'll give that a try thanks for the tip! Is an ace harware dark grey and light grey stone a crystolon? If so I have one sitting in some mineral oil right now but never use it because it dries out so fast
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Not likely. The more 'grey' stones at ACE (& Home Depot, and Sears, etc) have been aluminum oxide (Crystolon is silicon carbide). And over the last 6 months-1 year in my area, it seems ACE has been phasing out the obviously darker (more black than grey) SiC stones, seeming to favor the greyer AlOx stones, which are pretty good, BTW. All of the ACE stones I've purchased* came completely dry, i.e., not filled with grease. They drink up oil seemingly with no limits to their appetite for it; I've contemplated storing mine in a tub filled with mineral oil, just to keep them wetted. Otherwise, it seems to take a lot of drizzling of oil on them, each time I use them.

(* = I have 8" ACE stones in both SiC & AlOx, one of each in 6" size, two 4" SiC and one 4" AlOx, and two 3" pocket stones in SiC; all ACE branded)

Given some of the mixed opinions on the filling of the Norton India stones with grease/vaseline, I think a completely dry stone, as 'new', would be my preference anyway. It gives me a little more flexibility to use it dry or oiled, without having to boil the grease out of it, if I don't want it there.


David
 
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Is there anyway someone could post a pic of an ace sic stone and an aox difference? I'd post a picture of mine but I cant
 
Bucketmouth said:
Is there anyway someone could post a pic of an ace sic stone and an aox difference? I'd post a picture of mine but I cant
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Not the ACE stones, but this pic of a few of Norton's offerings will show the same color difference between the SiC (dark, almost black) and the aluminum oxide (grey). The ACE stones I've purchased look literally identical to the Norton stones, save for the labelling on them. The two grey stones at the left are aluminum oxide, and the dark one to the right is silicon carbide (what Norton calls 'Crystolon'):


David
 
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I've looked at those ACE Hardware stones. Haven't purchased one yet. The ones I mostly see are the grey ones. They are offered at a very tempting price. I think the 2x8" I've seen for 14$. Good sharpening. DM
 
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samuraistuart said:
A video? No...I don't care to do any sharpening videos. Others have that covered quite well.
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No problem... but I peruse a lot of videos... don't think I've seen one grind in a bevel like you described. Thought it would be worth showing a bit.

If there's one out there... point me that way! :)
 
I have a 4" Ace SiC stone and a couple of 6" Norton Economy SiC stones (that I paid about $6 for at Home Depot back when they used to stock them). They were not pre-loaded and were amazingly thirsty for oil. I speculated that they should be used for oil spills in the ocean. If you could just figure out how to get them to float, a couple dozen of those stones could soak up a few hundred barrels :).

I have Norton Crystolon (SiC) JB8 and Norton India (Aluminum Oxide) IB8 stones. They came pre-loaded with something, because oil doesn't soak in very much. Which is fine by me - a $6 stone that takes about $4 worth of oil to load up is not as big of a bargain as it might seem. I use Norton Honing oil or Howards Cutting Board Oil. Both are low viscosity food grade mineral oils.

As far as rebeveling a Case knife - that should take about 10 minutes or less on the coarse side of a Norton India or Crystolon. Those stones cut fast and the Case steel is not very hard. I just finished up a large but cheap kitchen knife that had a lot of edge damage for a friend. Took me about 15 minutes total, most of the time spent on the coarse side of the India stone, then refined on the fine side, finished on hard Arkansas, and stropped on balsa loaded with diamond spray.

I can't conceive of it taking 4 hours to rebevel a knife in TruSharp unless you were trying to use fine or ultra-fine stones for the job. I learned a while back - let the coarsest stone in your kit do the heavy lifting, then refine and polish after you have a sharp edge off the coarse stone.
 
cbwx34 said:
No problem... but I peruse a lot of videos... don't think I've seen one grind in a bevel like you described. Thought it would be worth showing a bit.

If there's one out there... point me that way! :)
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I'm not sure if there is a "video" out there with someone setting an edge bevel like I do. Maybe? Not sure why there is interest in me doing a video on how I set an edge bevel. It's just like freehand knife sharpening, one stroke per side?? When I learned to sharpen a knife, one grandfather would do circular scrubbing motion, the other would do one swipe, heel to tip, then flip to the other side, repeat. I preferred that method myself, over the circular scrubbing. Scrubbing, whether it is back/forth or circular, is faster (obviously) than doing one swipe at a time per side. However, mainly because my grinds are so thin (kitchen knives and hunters), it doesn't take much time at all to set an edge bevel the way I do it on Crystolons or coarse DMT or waterstones. Plus, it is easier to creep up on the apex, while scrubbing motion you tend to overshoot the apex and form a larger burr.

My replies to this are derailing the thread topic, as they are not a method to "speed up reprofile process". It's just that it doesn't take me but 30 minutes to do by hand, not 4 hours. If I had an 8" chef's knife, with an edge bevel .03" thick, and all I had was a translucent Arkansas stone....then I could see that it may take 4 hours. The last line of John's post above is exactly what I was getting at. 4 hours is just an unreasonably long time to set a bevel, or thin a blade for that matter. Something is not right if it takes that long, whether it is lack of equipment or technique, or both.
 
samuraistuart said:
I'm not sure if there is a "video" out there with someone setting an edge bevel like I do. Maybe? Not sure why there is interest in me doing a video on how I set an edge bevel. It's just like freehand knife sharpening, one stroke per side?? When I learned to sharpen a knife, one grandfather would do circular scrubbing motion, the other would do one swipe, heel to tip, then flip to the other side, repeat. I preferred that method myself, over the circular scrubbing. Scrubbing, whether it is back/forth or circular, is faster (obviously) than doing one swipe at a time per side. However, mainly because my grinds are so thin (kitchen knives and hunters), it doesn't take much time at all to set an edge bevel the way I do it on Crystolons or coarse DMT or waterstones. Plus, it is easier to creep up on the apex, while scrubbing motion you tend to overshoot the apex and form a larger burr.

My replies to this are derailing the thread topic, as they are not a method to "speed up reprofile process". It's just that it doesn't take me but 30 minutes to do by hand, not 4 hours. If I had an 8" chef's knife, with an edge bevel .03" thick, and all I had was a translucent Arkansas stone....then I could see that it may take 4 hours. The last line of John's post above is exactly what I was getting at. 4 hours is just an unreasonably long time to set a bevel, or thin a blade for that matter. Something is not right if it takes that long, whether it is lack of equipment or technique, or both.
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Most of what I've seen, setting a bevel is either done with a powered device, or if by hand, one side is worked for a bit, then the knife is flipped and the other side worked. So, honestly, just thought you might be doing something interesting, (or just really good), that it would be worth seeing.

I don't think it 'derails'... it contributes (to me anyway), that you're able to do this job in a short amount of time. I don't think it's unreasonable... just not seen done in that manner. But anyway... thanks for the reply... like I said, just thought it might be worth showing. (But good info in this reply on why you do it)
 
Does sound like a walk through video could be helpful maybe. I do not understand myself how it could take more than 10 minutes a side, and that's still dragging it out.

I have come to like using my coarse waterstones, I used to feel they were largely useless. Also a coarse SiC stone comes in handy, but the waterstone can just be dunked and back to it. When an oilstone gets loaded up I put a bunch of oil on it and wipe it off to get a clean restart.

I use a fair amount of force on the trailing component and not so much on the lead. This causes less dishing and seems to cause less haze above the shoulder transition. Gotta be careful though, this (and too much force especially on a coarse stone either leading or trailing) is a good way to wind up with a wire edge.

I'm a bit underwhelmed by the DMT XXC, but the XC comes in handy.
 
I like the atoma 140 more than the xxc dmt. I have 2, one for stone flattening and one for fast stock removal.

Russ
 
I've been practicing more and have reprofiled my edge's on a case folding hunter and it took me about half hour to 45 mins. I don't know what I was doing before but yes it shouldn't take that long lol. Thanks for the help guys!
 
I found one of the hardware SiC, 2X8" stones today and purchased it. Pictured here beside my Norton JUM-3. Both have the coarse side up. I had a rewards card burning a hole in my pocket, with that brought it under a sawbuck. It's coarse side looks much darker than the JUM-3. DM
 
I did some reprofiling with the hardware SiC stone and it eats tough steels like 440C. It took maybe 10-15 mins. to take down the edge shoulder and remove metal about a 1/4" higher. I was surprise. It does much better than the JUM-3 (Norton's 100 grit). I'll be using it more in this application. DM
 
The ACE hardware stone is aluminum oxide per the ACE hardware website.
 
That's pretty much exactly what my stone looks like. Except mine is a 6x2x1 and the fine side is a grey color. Not sure if it's alumaoxide or sic but it really did help me get the cases done fast. I think I'll still purchase a Norton crystalon just for the piece of mind that it is sic. I also applied some Vasaline to mine and hit with a hair dryer fast and the keep honing oil on the stone for a long time
 
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