Super Steels: What's the point?

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KennyB

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Jan 19, 2010
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I was reading a thread the other day, some people were talking about the newest super steels. You know, your S30/60/90Vs, M390s, ZDP-189s, etc. It was mentioned that these steels hold an edge for much longer than the more popular, economic steels ( 440, 1095, etc ) but that they are also much harder to sharpen. Someone contended that the key to sharpening them easily was to not let them get very dull before sharpening.

Well, what's the point then? If you're going to be sharpening frequently, then why not just use a simpler steel? I understand that some people might not want to maintenance an edge for a very long time and so these steels might be ideal, but for a person that is already accustomed to sharpening often, what is the real point of these alloys?

The only thing I can think of is jobs where the edge might get dull in the middle of working, and so a more mild steel like 440 or 1095 might require more frequent sharpening. I've never had to do that much work with my knife personally, but I'm not saying it couldn't happen either.


Apologies if I'm beating a dead horse...
 
I think the people that say "don't let it get dull" are the people that don't truly sharpen their knives. Those people seem to rely on honing, not sharpening.

I've sharpened every steel you listed there, except S60. With proper equipment, I can't really tell that much of a difference. One may take a little longer (10, 15 minutes tops) to get sharp, but none are inherently "harder" to sharpen. YMMV
 
I would say that if you like to maintain your edges regularly (weekly, daily, hourly depending on your usage) then anything beyond say... s30v or 154cm is not really needed. That's not to say some of these super steels are pointless however. Steels that can achieve super high hardness ratings such as zdp-189 and a few others are capable of maintaining stability of a very acute edge. Zdp or m390 for example would take and hold a 22° inclusive edge much better than s30v. If you are a person who loves super acute bevels and primarily uses knives for slicing (which is made better with acute bevels), then super steels do have some merit. For most people though, despite what they may say, it's more a novelty than anything else.

That being said, I don't really buy anything with less than s30v/vg10/154cm...
 
mkjellgren said:
I would say that if you like to maintain your edges regularly (weekly, daily, hourly depending on your usage) then anything beyond say... s30v or 154cm is not really needed. That's not to say some of these super steels are pointless however. Steels that can achieve super high hardness ratings such as zdp-189 and a few others are capable of maintaining stability of a very acute edge. Zdp or m390 for example would take and hold a 22° inclusive edge much better than s30v. If you are a person who loves super acute bevels and primarily uses knives for slicing (which is made better with acute bevels), then super steels do have some merit. For most people though, despite what they may say, it's more a novelty than anything else.

That being said, I don't really buy anything with less than s30v/vg10/154cm...
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Ahh, that's a good point I didn't consider.

CrimsonTideShooter,

Well, yeah, I didn't really mean there was any more difficulty involved, but that it just takes longer since the steel is more wear resistant to the sharpening abrasive.
 
I like my edges super thin, as I do little but slicing with my knives. Hence, I love me some super steels. My Spyderco Caly 3 in ZDP 189 rarely needs even a touch up on the edge; I swear, it stays sharp almost forever.
 
This discussion is akin to those deerhunters that need to hit a 6" kill-circle @ 40 yards in deep brush...but purchase a custom model 70 that guarantees 1/2" 3-shot group @ 100 yards. There is that group of folks who desires to have the "best" of a particular group, regardless of the necessity. Others within the group will maintain that such "perfection" is entirely necessary...upon occasion. The aspect of pride is certainly there, knowing that you have "the best."
I am guilty to a large degree; I like owning Spyderco Militaries and Para2's in the super-steels, and I do take pride in them, even though they just sit there, unused. However, I also enjoy several high-end folders made with "lesser" blade-steels, such as 154cm, S30V, and so forth. Much of this is based on personal opinion, like anything else.
Sonny
 
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The blades made from super steels will last longer and they require less sharpening between chores. That said, I have a little Spyderco Native that I've carried and am not too fond of. It's a nice little knife, but I can't get it as sharp as my Cold Steel AUS8/VG-1 steeled blades. It's just preference. I have a CRKT ATS-34 that's easy to sharpen and keeps a wonderful edge, but I carry 4- and 5-inch CS Voyager blades and I don't even think about them! Extremely sharp and also keep a decent edge. Some folks have not been fans of serrations, but the other day I was trying to cut through some very light branches so an air conditioning guy could get to my unit, my plain edge just wasn't making it. And I was surprised. I have a little 4-inch that has all serrations and it went right through -- "like a chainsaw," as LT would say! Seriously, the serrations have their place, but I'm fond of plain edges; even so, I have both and often carry both.

People swear by Buck 110s, but they have 420HC steel. I don't know how long they can do that, but people keep buying them. If you use them long enough, though, they wear!

Buck110.jpg


This 110 has seen a lot of wear. This one was being sold on eBay a few
years ago.
 
I gave up on super steel few years back. I used to use my knife frequently at work and found that regardless of what steel, it will be dull by the end of the day. After 10 hour days in the factory and 3-4 hours commute, spending extra time sharpening every other day is unappealing to me. After going back to "regular" steel, I now much prefer the ease of sharpening vs edge retention.

If you like to have a razor edge and value the latest and greatest, you will want some of the lastest offerings. However, if you just want things cut and knows how to sharpening a knife, almost any knife will good blade geometry will work.
 
The hardest steel I have used is D2 witch if you have diamond stones, is very easy to bring back a mildly dulled edge with a fine and medium ceramic stone or rod. But I havnt realy found a need to use super steels, I would rather use a simple a 420 hc buck and touch it up once a week (taking at most 5 minutes) or Carbon steel like cases CV which hold a good edge and I could lteraly lake the edge completely off then bring it back with a course diamond stone in under 25 minutes.
 
sherlockbonez said:
I gave up on super steel few years back. I used to use my knife frequently at work and found that regardless of what steel, it will be dull by the end of the day. After 10 hour days in the factory and 3-4 hours commute, spending extra time sharpening every other day is unappealing to me. After going back to "regular" steel, I now much prefer the ease of sharpening vs edge retention.
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This is what I've been saying for years. I'd much rather have a steel like AUS8A that holds a good edge, is easy to sharpen, and gets razor sharp as to one that holds a little better edge but is a pain the a$$ to sharpen back up. To each their own I guess. :)
 
I sometimes go through 100-300 cardboard boxes a day at work or have to "damage out" returned, but washed/worn clothing items that we can't resell so they have to be cut up and thrown away, so cutting up 40 pairs of denim jeans, 50 t-shirts, some sweaters coats, 20 pairs of shoes (some several inches thick). When I first started I used a Benchmade Vex in 8cr14mov, which is basically equivalent to AUS8 or 440B, with a good heat treat by Benchmade, however it would only make it through about 1/3 of what I needed it for, and I can't just pull out a sharpmaker or something at work, spend 10 minutes putting a new edge on my knife, so I switched to S30V which got me 3/4 of the way through depending on the amount it had to go through sometimes more, and finally to ZDP-189 (however it was a saber grind so I'm sure ffg would have done better) which wouldn't shave hair afterward, but would make it all the way through sharper than the 8cr was after 1/4 of the way through the job. Now my collection consists mostly of "super steels" (the most prevalent steel in my collection is M390) and although I'm no longer the person who does the "damaging out" for clothes or need to cut down that many boxes I do still prefer super steels because if I'm in a situation that I do need to do that I know my knives won't stop working 1/3 or 1/2 way through the job, also I've gone from needing to sharpen an edc about once every 2 weeks to once every 3-4 months when used for regular use. Also I use a $35 benchgrinder from harbor freight so even S90V takes about 5 minutes from very dull to shaving, if all I had was a Sharpmaker or some stones, I would probably have to do touchups to keep on top of my super steels and I would spend a lot more time sharpening dull super steels or reprofiling.
 
CrimsonTideShooter said:
I think the people that say "don't let it get dull" are the people that don't truly sharpen their knives. Those people seem to rely on honing, not sharpening.

I've sharpened every steel you listed there, except S60. With proper equipment, I can't really tell that much of a difference. One may take a little longer (10, 15 minutes tops) to get sharp, but none are inherently "harder" to sharpen. YMMV
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Well said. I use an Edge Pro -- which as I recall is also what you use for much of your sharpening -- and have rebeveled and sharpened everything from AUS-8A/8Cr13MoV to CPM-S30V to M390 to CPM-S90V to CPM-15V (yes, the steel with 15% Vanadium), and a lot of others in between. With the Edge Pro's silicon carbide stones, the only difference, like you mentioned, is that the ones at the "super steel" end of the spectrum take a bit longer. But, at least for me, the massive gain in wear resistance when cutting abrasive media like cardboard is well worth sharpening taking a few minutes more.
 
an advantage of the steel's for "ME" is that it will stay somewhat sharp through a long workday.i know when i first started buying knives for work i had a few aus8a knives and after working for 6 or 7 hours the knife would be like a butter knife. that means that my work at the end of the day would take more effort and my cuts would be more sloppy. to me i would rather hone s30v or another steel for a few days and then sit down and sharpen for about 20 min once or twice a week a the most. rather than sharpening for 5min a night.

that being said i think those "simple" steels have a place and i would never want to see all knives made in an ultra hard steel.
 
michaelm466 said:
I sometimes go through 100-300 cardboard boxes a day at work or have to "damage out" returned, but washed/worn clothing items that we can't resell so they have to be cut up and thrown away, so cutting up 40 pairs of denim jeans, 50 t-shirts, some sweaters coats, 20 pairs of shoes (some several inches thick). When I first started I used a Benchmade Vex in 8cr14mov, which is basically equivalent to AUS8 or 440B, with a good heat treat by Benchmade, however it would only make it through about 1/3 of what I needed it for, and I can't just pull out a sharpmaker or something at work, spend 10 minutes putting a new edge on my knife, so I switched to S30V which got me 3/4 of the way through depending on the amount it had to go through sometimes more, and finally to ZDP-189 (however it was a saber grind so I'm sure ffg would have done better) which wouldn't shave hair afterward, but would make it all the way through sharper than the 8cr was after 1/4 of the way through the job. Now my collection consists mostly of "super steels" (the most prevalent steel in my collection is M390) and although I'm no longer the person who does the "damaging out" for clothes or need to cut down that many boxes I do still prefer super steels because if I'm in a situation that I do need to do that I know my knives won't stop working 1/3 or 1/2 way through the job, also I've gone from needing to sharpen an edc about once every 2 weeks to once every 3-4 months when used for regular use. Also I use a $35 benchgrinder from harbor freight so even S90V takes about 5 minutes from very dull to shaving, if all I had was a Sharpmaker or some stones, I would probably have to do touchups to keep on top of my super steels and I would spend a lot more time sharpening dull super steels or reprofiling.
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Agree 100% with the above. I work in a warehouse and sometimes have to cut up to 1000 slip sheets to fit special customer pallets. Try cutting 1000 pieces of cardboard with Aus8, I have flattened the edge at the tip by lunch and sharpened it on a pillar to finish the day. D2 no such problem, elmax even better. I'm really excited to try out S110v soon.
 
Yep. There are a few of us that actually use our knives enough to benefit from the advantages of super steels. For most people, it's just gadget factor.
 
s30v is one of my favorites. Along with VG-10.
They stay sharp for a long time and sharpen up quick and sharp again.
Plus you don't have to sharpen them a lot.
I've been sharpening my EDC that I use for literally everything once a week.

Even then it just needs touched up real fast and we're back to cutting everything.

I just got my first for real super steel - being my new 0551 in Elmax. I have to say it is sharp but it's not particularly sharper than any of my other knives. So I'm not sure. This is going to be my new main EDC so we will see how its edge holds up!
 
yablanowitz said:
Yep. There are a few of us that actually use our knives enough to benefit from the advantages of super steels. For most people, it's just gadget factor.
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I agree, Jack and I definitely fall into the latter category. I get along quite nicely with AUS-8, 440C, 420HC, VG-10 and when I want to walk on the wild side, I'll grab some S30V. ;)
 
They do everything better. Edge holding, corrosion resistance, toughness, ect. Improvements have been made in all areas with modern knife steels. And we're knife nerds. We don't need much of a practical point to get excited over these things.
 
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