Super Steels: What's the point?

I've come to the conclusion that compared to decent, but regular steels - there is no point in so called 'super-steels' for me and yes, before anyone challenges me - I do have several of them and have used them.

1095, D2 and especially A2 work just fine in a variety of applications. In stainless; AUS 8A, 440C and 8Cr13MoV also work just fine for me. As you point out (with the exception of D2) these steels tend to be easier and quicker to sharpen and that is a significant consideration.

I put it down to marketing and, at the risk of being inflammatory, armchair experts wanting the latest and 'greatest'. Look if that floats your boat - fantastic but someone cutting up food, paper, twigs, etc. and then telling me about durability doesn't really 'cut it' for me (no pun intended) :o...

Ben
 
Yep. There are a few of us that actually use our knives enough to benefit from the advantages of super steels. For most people, it's just gadget factor.

I disagree... if you work lots it saves you sharpening daily or more, if you work it less it saves you sharpening weekly or monthly... Its just how long between sharpenings. with a super steel a lightly used knife may only need to be sharpened 3-4 times a year, WIth a crap steel its every time you use it.

:)
See we all benefit...
:D
And the only rifle of interest is an accurate one (thank you Jeff Cooper). No matter what the size of the target I want reasonable assurance that the bullet will go where it was pointed, not "sorta close" to where it was pointed...
 
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My personal take on it is....

I prefer 440C, 8CR13, 420HC, etc. since I don't want to spend hard earned money on bonded moon dust sharpening sticks or the next super steel breathed on by angry German trolls. My stuff works great and is easy to sharpen with a small old Boy Scout stone so FOR ME it works great but your mileage might very.

That sure doesn't keep me from living vicariously through the folks who report back on what the trolls pounded out this week.
 
With the proper equipment, sharpening "super steels" is no more diffcult than sharpening anything else.
 
They do everything better. Edge holding, corrosion resistance, toughness, ect. Improvements have been made in all areas with modern knife steels. And we're knife nerds. We don't need much of a practical point to get excited over these things.
i 100% agree...... i have noticed that all of my knives with basic old steel's can flash rust if it is humid outside. no water, no sweat..... nothing. just having very high humidity has made 440c, aus8a and 8cr13mov rust over for me
 
i 100% agree...... i have noticed that all of my knives with basic old steel's can flash rust if it is humid outside. no water, no sweat..... nothing. just having very high humidity has made 440c, aus8a and 8cr13mov rust over for me

All knife grade "stainless steels" especially those with high carbon contents can and will rust if not properly taken care of. I've seen rust spots on S30V, CPM154, ELMAX, and S35VN. Those are all considered high end "super steels.". Proper care is the key to preventing rust.
 
diamonds will sharpen anything. I have dmt diamond stones, and they will sharpen pure tungsten carbide relatively easily, so supper steels sharpen very easily for me. If however you only have Arkansas stones, or even ceramic, i can see where it would be a concern. so get diamond :D
 
All knife grade "stainless steels" especially those with high carbon contents can and will rust if not properly taken care of. I've seen rust spots on S30V, CPM154, ELMAX, and S35VN. Those are all considered high end "super steels.". Proper care is the key to preventing rust.
i never said they did not rust. i have had spotting on almost every steel you have mentiond. however i can go to the beach or have my clothes get wet from rain and blade will be fine. i have noticed rust on my super steels when i work in hot bunker pants ( firefighter pants) and sweat my ass off for a few hours while training
 
I was reading a thread the other day, some people were talking about the newest super steels. You know, your S30/60/90Vs, M390s, ZDP-189s, etc. It was mentioned that these steels hold an edge for much longer than the more popular, economic steels ( 440, 1095, etc ) but that they are also much harder to sharpen. Someone contended that the key to sharpening them easily was to not let them get very dull before sharpening.

Well, what's the point then? If you're going to be sharpening frequently, then why not just use a simpler steel? I understand that some people might not want to maintenance an edge for a very long time and so these steels might be ideal, but for a person that is already accustomed to sharpening often, what is the real point of these alloys?

The only thing I can think of is jobs where the edge might get dull in the middle of working, and so a more mild steel like 440 or 1095 might require more frequent sharpening. I've never had to do that much work with my knife personally, but I'm not saying it couldn't happen either.


Apologies if I'm beating a dead horse...


For those who really use their knives as in they cut a lot of stuff daily the super steels really show the benefits especially if it's abrasive materials. These types of users are in the small percentage of overall users and a lot of them aren't on any knife forum.

That's not cutting open a bag of chips once in awhile or playing with folders in the kitchen looking for things to cut because they don't have any other use for them other than flipping them 100's of times a day while sitting around watching TV. For those types yeah it doesn't matter what steel it is because they really don't use their knives enough to tell the difference between pot metal and S30V so something like an SAK or even a Gas Station Knife would be more than enough for them.

Yeah I have used those simple steels for decades and they just don't have the edge retention to last through even one full shift at work or any real long term use no matter what people like to think or try and make others believe. The bottom line is the alloy content just isn't there and no amount of BS, HYPE or anything else will change that.

NO, the super steels aren't bad to sharpen as long as you have the proper tools to deal with the increased wear resistance over the simple steels.
 
And the only rifle of interest is an accurate one (thank you Jeff Cooper). No matter what the size of the target I want reasonable assurance that the bullet will go where it was pointed, not "sorta close" to where it was pointed...

Sorry for the digression, but I'd like to add that anything that increases your margin for error is a good thing. Not really sure how it applies to knives, though.
 
[video=youtube;0KPcVHUWJh4]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0KPcVHUWJh4[/video]
 
I've come to the conclusion that compared to decent, but regular steels - there is no point in so called 'super-steels' for me and yes, before anyone challenges me - I do have several of them and have used them.
I challenge you on all aspects :) For different types of materials I'll challenge each your 'decent/regular' steels with my supersteels and they(supers) will do both, outcut(because of thin edges) and outlast challengees.

As a second part of the challenge, we can compare how much sharpening super / no super steel knives will need after cutting session, and I claim that super steels will be in much better shape, i.e. very little sharpening will be required for them.
Unless you insist that I use flat rocks for sharpening, which I refuse :) I am not interested in developing that particular skill, I'm fine with my sharpening equipment and I prefer to improve my sharpening skills using whetstones, diaminds etc...

1095, D2 and especially A2 work just fine in a variety of applications. In stainless; AUS 8A, 440C and 8Cr13MoV also work just fine for me. As you point out (with the exception of D2) these steels tend to be easier and quicker to sharpen and that is a significant consideration.
In the kitchen, those 3 stainless steels you listed loose sharp edge about half way through of my usual cutting session(about 2 hours of veggie cutting), while other kitchen knives with Aogami 1/2, ZDP etc can go 4-5 complete sessions with ONLY stropping in between sessions as a maintenance. Also, well worth mentioning the fact that average edge on 8Cr13MoV class steel knives is about 40 inclusive, and on the super steels I mentioned above I am able to keep anything between 10 to 20 inclusive angles. Makes very considerable difference in terms of physical efforts involved and resulting fatigue.
So, even if you disregard sheer cutting performance improvement, amount of sharpening you'd have to do to keep your knives sharp is much larger compared to super steels and more frequent. And if you attempt to put 10 inclusive angle on most of what you listed, you'll be very disappointed. Yes, D2 can go about 24 deg. inclusive when hardened to 64HRC, but good luck finding that in western knife world.
Anyhow, may be you are fine with half dull kitchen knives, but I am not. In either case, it is our personal view of performance, but I suppose that has no real influence on how those steels really perform. The potential is there, and whether one is able to utilize it or not is a different question and steels are not to blame if the users can't use them.

I put it down to marketing and, at the risk of being inflammatory, armchair experts wanting the latest and 'greatest'. Look if that floats your boat - fantastic but someone cutting up food, paper, twigs, etc. and then telling me about durability doesn't really 'cut it' for me (no pun intended) :o...
Agreed, marketing does play significant role and not always positive. I suppose I qualify for of those armchair experts, in that I do all my sharpening at home, because I can't haul half a dozen whetstones around in the bush(and I haven't been in that bush more than a decade I think).
I'm not sure I understand the second half of your statement, someone cutting stuff and then sharing his experience isn't good for you, then what is? Paid advertisement? Obviously you can't test every possible steel, so you gotta make some decisions based on something?
 
I notice that, generally speaking, the harder a knife is to sharpen, the longer the edge lasts. Wear resistance in equals wear resistance out (no free lunch). I like the longer lasting edges and am willing to spend a little more time on the front end to get them.
 
I notice that, generally speaking, the harder a knife is to sharpen, the longer the edge lasts. Wear resistance in equals wear resistance out (no free lunch). I like the longer lasting edges and am willing to spend a little more time on the front end to get them.

That's not always the case, not even a lot of the time. Wear resistance is only one facet of edge retention. Many more factors play a much larger role than wear resistance. There are MANY "super steels" that will out cut S30V by SOME AMOUNT (haha :D), yet won't take much longer (if any) to sharpen.
 
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All knife grade "stainless steels" especially those with high carbon contents can and will rust if not properly taken care of. I've seen rust spots on S30V, CPM154, ELMAX, and S35VN. Those are all considered high end "super steels.". Proper care is the key to preventing rust.
In addition to proper care, I've found the blade finish is a much bigger factor than the steel itself. Bead-blast finishes, in my experiences, make blades significantly more vulnerable to corrosion than any other type of finish.
 
That's not always the case, not even a lot of the time. Wear resistance is only one facet of edge retention. Many more factors play a much larger role than wear resistance. There are MANY "super steels" that will out cut S30V on an order of magnitude, yet won't take much longer (if any) to sharpen.
Have to disagree with this: "an order of magnitude" means 10 times more (two orders of magnitude = 100x more, etc.). There are steels that will hold an edge a lot longer than S30V, but at best it'd be 1/3 or 1/2 of that (and even there we'd have to be talking about something like K294, K390, etc. at high HRC).

EDIT: Conflict resolved. :)
 
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Have to disagree with this: "an order of magnitude" means 10 times more (two orders of magnitude = 100x more, etc.). There are steels that will hold an edge a lot longer than S30V, but at best it'd be 1/3 or 1/2 of that (and even there we'd have to be talking about something like K294, K390, etc. at high HRC).

My wording was wrong. Didn't actually know "order of magnitude" was a quantifiable measurement. Neat!

ETA: Changed my wording in the post.
 
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