Supersteels. Practicality or Novelty?

Novelty for sure. A good analogy would be high end bicycles. There are road bikes that costs over $10,000. I always tell people that once you pass the $3000 mark, it's mostly just novelty. Will you see a difference in performance if you use them to your full potential? Sure, but the difference won't be huge, and you would really have to be an expert level rider to reap the benefits of it.

That doesn't stop a lot of overweight out of shape middle aged men with too much money from buying $10,000 bikes though. Same thing goes for knives.
 
The only reason I bring this up is because I'm always seeing questions comparing this steel to that steel, or claims that this is better than that.... ect. Part of the point I'm trying to make is the practical performance of any blade steel is actually much harder to judge than most people think. Everyone will jump down your throat if you say s30v is better than Elmax. Elmax has that "supersteel" reputation attached to it so perhaps people need to justify their purchase by convincing themselves that Elmax is indeed better than s30v. They'll get sore if you say otherwise as if their first hand practical use is contradictory. Thats just an example, whether it is or isn't I can't say. I tend to feel there are WAY too many people on this forum that like to comment about things they actually have no experience with, or maybe they just think they have experience when it's actually just bias. So when some one asks if 154cm is better than VG10 I honestly can't offer any specific insight. They're about the same. If you have to slice through phonebook paper to tell a differance, then for all intents and purposes they are the same! On top of that, blade steel is just one side of it. Edge geometry, Rockwell hardness, grind, profile... ect all play a role as well.

I like collecting blade steels because I respect the chemistry and technology that goes into making them. Just as the dude driving a Ferrari respects automotive engineering.
 
I think for users it might make a small difference but the guys always selling lnib etc probably just a selling point.


I know for some kitchen knives, ill pay extra for steel with good edge retention and sacrifice life term of knife, its fun buying a new knife anyways haha.
 
I can't think of them fully as a novelty. I use my knives, and I admire (and sometimes don't) how the steels performs. Think of it as a variety and innovation. What I think fully as "Novelty" are usually sprint runs, damascus, knife with beautiful hamon... rare collectible or discontinued pieces... that is what novelty to me. knives I cannot use.

yes I have not yet encountered any tasks 8Cr13MoV or even mysterious blade steel - made from iron plates - cannot do. but owning and using a M-4 blade steel as my EDC, I have beat my Spyderco Gayle Bradley hard - but not considered as abuse AFAIK, gives me pleasure, I can brag about it's steel properties,and the most important thing, the HT and the knife's design concept-purpose-geometry. how it feels real good in the hand etc. Hell, in this case, if Spyderco made a GB folder using 'lesser end steel' like 8Cr13MoV or AUS8, I will buy it!

but with H1 steel, it is another story. I dig em, they're not a novelty anymore, I like them very much. steels such as S90V, I think of it as novelty, because I cannot sharpen it well. the point is, as long I can find a purpose of using it, i can't consider it as novelty item. more like luxury.
 
I think most people have something they are willing to spend more money on than most people think is practical. Obviously for us here that thing is knives. Most people don't understand the need for an expensive knife let alone a knife in day to day life, but it's what we love and we want to have the best. Some of us need the best, others simply want the best because it's what they want to spend their money on because it makes them happy. Either way the volume of sales we provide is what allows for the development and survival of these companies. I think we should be more appreciative than critical of the people/customers out there keeping the lights on and the prices lower (by providing volume of sales) to these companies who produce products that we love to buy, own and use. Just my perspective.
 
Some people like to go high end and will do so even if it serves no additional practical purpose. Heck I want to experiment with some of the carbon steels and with D2, s30v, and Elmax and I can't give you a single justifiable reason other than I want to. And that want is to mostly see how they sharpen, edge retention, and eventually experiment to see what kind of angle the steel will hold, etc. Luckily I can grab 3 of those knives for under $100 (together) in the form of a Buck Vantage Pro, Opinel, and Queen Country Cousin. The Elmax knife on the other hand will be more expensive as I am looking at ZT's.

Now here is the funny thing may favorite steel so far is the Aus 8 on my Ka-bar Dozier though I suspect the design of the blade plays a part in that as well and that's a $20 knife. And I wouldn't hesitate to buy some of the more expensive knives I've been looking at if they swapped to Aus 8 as long as it is done right.
 
I don't really care all that much about what steel my knives are made in, as long as they are made as good as possible.

Proper heat treatment, bevel angles, grinds and profiles that caters to the steel characteristics and intented usage seems far more important than what fancy acronym the maker can put on the blade..
 
Moxy said:
Take the Para II for example. The s30v version can be had for about $140 ish give or take. But other versions with high end steels often go for almost double that. So, speaking from a strictly practical sense, does the extra performance of the steel justify the price hike?
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The way I look at it, PM2's with upgraded steels are worth it if I can get one direct from dealers. For example, the recent CTS204P was sold for $140 each by the exclusive dealer. People are paying twice that are mainly paying for its rarity/exclusivity as they are very limited in number and highly sought after. So the PM2 may not be the best example as the steel may not even be the main catalyst in price but because of its rarity. However if you disagree, given the demand though, it seems apparent that many appreciate the performance that premium steels offer then.

To me, getting a hold of and using various steels is another enjoyable part of having knives as a hobby.

I do not agree with JDavis' assessment that only he hard uses knives and every one else doesn't. What does he use them for? Mindlessly cut material that doesn't need to be cut such as stacks of cardboard for recreation? I'm not one to say I "hard use" my knives but I use my knives plenty in my trade and at home and I do like for example how I can go through a whole day's work with an S110v N5 still as cutting sharp as the day I got it.

Ten people will give you ten answers as everyone is different. You can vote novelty or practicality and have 100s of ways to spin it. To each his own. I suppose though that if only JDavis uses his knives and everyone else just takes pretty pictures of them to show off on the forums and keep them in their boxes then most def, high end steels are a novelty for you guys.
 
I'd say novelty. I have a few knives with "super steels" but as I live in an urban environment I have never and probably will never really "need" a super steel. S30V is all the steel I will ever need in a knife but I still buy knives with super steels just for the sake of having a knife with "super steel":D
I know this analogy has been done to death on every topic like this but most people with super-cars will never really be able to take their cars anywhere near their potential performance markers, but its still insanely awesome to have one!
 
given the unquestioned superiority of certain rare and expensive steels, is there no application, whether professional trade, or field, or agricultural, or even a hobby wherein their usefulness over the more common steels is academic?
 
If you need it , its not novelty , if you want it just because , its novelty

I drove my brothers tow truck a while , just regular chase truck , being first on scene to some serious smashes made me aware of a need for a tool we didnt have , something to cut thru bonnet ( hood for you foreigners ) panels and cut battery cables on wrecked cars .

I cant afford infini , so I made a knife out of a all hard hi speed steel power hacksaw blade , it served him well for several more year until he sold his chase truck .
Did he need a knife that he could use to cut car panels ? hell yeah .. if he stood by and let the car catch fire , he couldnt tow it , the job would go to a tilt tray instead ..
in preventing wrecks burning he has saved a couple peoples lives . My bro used that knife well , the steel it is made from is designed to hold an edge under several horsepowers worth of drive while cutting steel bar stock for extended time , cutting sheet steel under one arm and a 12 inch shifter spanner drive ( improvised baton ) and cutting copper cable is nothing for it .

In his hands , it was no novelty , just a tool he used to good effect , tho as a knife Id guess it would be considered a super steel
In my hands , using the same knife to process game , or to whittle , cut string , open packets .. yeah its a novelty , good only for the fun of shredding tin cans and showing itll still shave arm hair after ..
 
quite honestly I don't care what steel is used as long as it's got a good heat treat on it and is the right steel for the job (I don't want a really brittle steel in a chopper, etc).

I have a preference for 1095, and the other carbon steels because they sharpen easy, stay sharp well, and don't break the bank. They are also strong.

Novelty steel...I don't have any time for those. Kind of like zdp-198. sure, it's cool.....but it's not for me.

Now, if I were collecting it would be different. There is value in limited editions, hard to get, rare, or odd items......

hank_rearden said:
given the unquestioned superiority of certain rare and expensive steels, is there no application, whether professional trade, or field, or agricultural, or even a hobby wherein their usefulness over the more common steels is academic?
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Well, again it comes back to "right tool for the right job" combined with "what is the job?"

When you start getting into professional settings, you have to look at the cost/benefit ratio. So let me ask: will a knife 2X (or more) the cost perform better enough so that the cost is acceptable. For instance. If a standard piece of farm equipment has a service life of 10k hours, and a salesman wants to sell me a "better" version, but costs twice as much as what I paid for the standard.....it better have a service life of 20k hours, or do the job faster, etc. It better be 2X better for the application.

In some cases, exotic steels can be worse. For instance the guy with the ZDP-198 junkyard dog that he used to open a can......and cracked the ZDP because it was brittle. While you shouldn't use a knife to open paint cans........I could do that with a knife made out of 1095....and while I am abusing my knife, I wouldn't have cracks like that.

From everything I have learned in life........the WHAT very often determines the HOW. You just have to know how to interpret the signs.
 
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Nullity said:
We need more options here! Neither option applies to me.

I would probably say "luxury".
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+1

I agree with Nullity that super steels are a luxury. If you can afford it and want it then go for it. If not, there are other good (less expensive) options.
 
Supersteels. Practicality or Novelty?


Well it will come down to real use of the said knife and or knives in the higher end steels.

That will vary depending on that said use because different people will have different types of use for their knives.
 
I guess it is very similar to owning a car. Do you "Need" a Mercedes or a BMW when a 96 Toyota Corolla with manual windows and door locks will get you there too?? The answers isn't so much about the need as the want. If you have the means to drive the Mercedes and the BMW, then by all means do so. If however you are in a different financial situation, take care of the Toyota, and it will serve you well.
 
Ankerson said:
Supersteels. Practicality or Novelty?


Well it will come down to real use of the said knife and or knives in the higher end steels.

That will vary depending on that said use because different people will have different types of use for their knives.
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I agree 100%.

You also need to take the user's mindset into account. I used to work at a hunting preserve, sometimes we had to go through A LOT of boars when we thinned the herds. I had a couple of custom knives made just for this (because I'll take any excuse to get a new knife), super hard D2 blades, thin stock flat ground with a convex edge. They are amazing game cleaning and butchering machines, but my coworkers hated them. They were more traditional in their tastes and used locally produced (Argentina) carbon steel Bokers with super soft blades which they they were constantly touching up on their sharpening steels. My knives were better, for ME. They found them a pain in the behind to sharpen, being used to soft 1095 and such. We got about the same amount of work done in a day (they were more skilled)
 
Vegas Blade said:
I guess it is very similar to owning a car. Do you "Need" a Mercedes or a BMW when a 96 Toyota Corolla with manual windows and door locks will get you there too?? The answers isn't so much about the need as the want. If you have the means to drive the Mercedes and the BMW, then by all means do so. If however you are in a different financial situation, take care of the Toyota, and it will serve you well.
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Don't know about that....

Cars are much different as in all of them will get you from point a to point b in a practical since and there really isn't any difference assuming following all the traffic laws and driving like they have a brain, not being a moron, idiot etc, endangering the safety of others.

The steels on the other hand depending on what is being cut in a point a to point b situation some steels will clearly cut longer than others will doing the exact same thing the exact same way....

To put in into the car reference for example assume a foot of snow, now that will make a difference in what car (SUV etc) will get you from point a to point b practically and safely.


Cars (SUV, Trucks) are pure ego for the most part because taking ego out of the situation they are all on equal ground as they all will do the same thing practically assuming equal reliability, maintenance etc. That's also following the traffic laws including reckless driving, or lets say driving like they have common since and not letting ego control the gas petal endangering themselves and others.
 
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To me, it's more about "exclusivity" than "novelty". I wouldn't want a $200 knife with 8Cr13MoV just because I don't want my roommate's $20 knife to be as much as a "performer" as my knife that costs ten times as much. I pretty much use it to justify to other people why I spend so much money on knives :rolleyes:

To be honest, I could survive with 440A in my pocket. It just wouldn't be as fun :D
 
For my uses, it's definitely novelty. When I'm just opening mail and trimming string and such, any steel will do that as long as you can sharpen it. When it comes time to use my knives hard, no super steel will take what they do any better than a 440A or 8CrMoV blade. For certain specialty applications, say when I had to cut a lot of boxes and such, a super steel would have been good. For my EDC needs, with all the potential for damaged edges and such, bring on the sprint run of Delicas and Enduras with 1055 carbon steel blades.
 
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