Suprised at what they are carrying

[mnblade]

Here in the heart of Europe all the knife shops carry Victorinox .... that's it for slipjoints. Also, Leatherman, Spyderco, Opinel, Gerber and Winchester junk, and maybe some Benchmade.

I sure wish GEC would pump out a steady stream of affordable micarta 71s. Maybe have a steady stream of newbie employees producing these as part of their training. It'd be good, hands-on training, it'd help spread the gospel about good carbon-steel pocketknives ..... AND guys like us could easily buy one without having to spend hours online trying to track down one that's not wildly over-priced.

-- Mark

 

[22-rimfire]

It could be worse. I could be taking a dirt nap, instead. <snip>

I don't know if I'll be able to do either again, here in Idaho. I hope I can. (although it seems all the water in the area is "why bother catch and release only", even if you only get a bluegill, crappie, or catfish. (invasive species, all three. You'd think Idaho would want to get rid of invasive species that eat trout, sturgeon, and salmon eggs ... but nooooo ...) If I can't keep at least a couple for eating, why bother?

For the cost of a resident fishing license, I can buy 20-30 pounds cheap ("wild caught") pre-seasoned Alaskan pink salmon...

I do the catch & release thing and for me the fun is in the catching. I however have been kind of a slacker with fishing lately and gave up hunting completely due to a meat allergy (related to tics). I would still hunt but I need a place to give the meat away and I don't want to spend $ processing large animals as anyone you give meat to want it in nice sealed bags. So, like you with fishing, it's not worth it to me to put much effort into hunting any more. Wish I could do practical catch & release with deer. As we get older, you really have to be careful with your footing in and around streams and rivers fishing. Nobody wants to get carried out of their favorite section of river due to an injury.

@Old Hunter Didn't know that Rough Ryders were being sold in hardware stores. I think that is great actually! Get rid of the Frosts. Would hate to see the store displays of Case knives go.

 

[JohnDF]

Didn't know that Rough Ryders were being sold in hardware stores. I think that is great actually! Get rid of the Frosts.

What's the difference between Rough Ryder knives and Frost knives?
I was under the assumption they were owned by the same company and probably produced on the same line.

 

[JohnDF]

I do the catch & release thing and for me the fun is in the catching.

I practice "catch and release" fishing too.
I do it for a variety of reasons... Mostly because I want to preserve our Blue Ribbon streams, but also because I hate to clean and cook fish. And you are correct, the fun for me is in the catching, not the cleaning and eating. You could also practice catch and release hunting, just bring a camera instead of a gun.

 

[22-rimfire]

I practice "catch and release" fishing too.
I do it for a variety of reasons... Mostly because I want to preserve our Blue Ribbon streams, but also because I hate to clean and cook fish. And you are correct, the fun for me is in the catching, not the cleaning and eating. You could also practice catch and release hunting, just bring a camera instead of a gun.

For some reason, photography escaped my brain when I typed that... you're right and it is a dominant hobby of mine. I spend more money on photography than I do with any other hobby at this point. But the spending tends to be episodic and things shift again. This year has been a photography year. The tally: Knives ~$200-$225, Photography ~$3,000-$4,000. Guns & ammunition >zero. Fishing equipment >zero

 

[22-rimfire]

What's the difference between Rough Ryder knives and Frost knives?
I was under the assumption they were owned by the same company and probably produced on the same line.

Frankly there should be little difference.... both made in China for US company..... From experience the Frost stuff simply doesn't hold up as well as the Rough Ryder slip joints. SMKW owns the Rough Ryder trademark and it is one they started themselves. Frost Cutlery owns the Frost lines (owned by the Frost family). They are not the same people at the top.....

 

[JohnDF]

Frankly there should be little difference.... both made in China for US company..... From experience the Frost stuff simply doesn't hold up as well as the Rough Ryder slip joints. SMKW owns the Rough Ryder trademark and it is one they started themselves. Frost Cutlery owns the Frost lines (owned by the Frost family). They are not the same people at the top.....

Thanks for the additional information.

 

[Chui]

So I had a chance to meet up with some of my knife collecting/swapping buddies yesterday. Usually we pull out what we are toting and complain and compliment, and listen to what's going on in the local knife market, mainly flea markets. I was surprised by several things, first was the fact that a diehard case lover had replaced his beloved trapper with a bear & son trapper and he said he was very satisfied. Apparently bear & son is getting quite the following here in the old south as I was informed that several hardware stores dropped case and carry them exclusively! I'm guessing due to the price point? The second thing that shocked me was one of the guys said he sells/trades more rough riders and steel warriors(china) than American made knives! His explanation was that folks aren't putting out the money on vintage USA knives like they were two years ago and newer case knives are being looked over the third thing, I personally find offensive, is younger people are just not into knives like they used to be!! I figured around here where hunting and fishing, farm work, and general redneck paradise prevails every kid would need a knife!! I asked how this whole coronavirus had effected the market and was informed, "It aint!". So I'm wondering, how's the knife market where you live?

Answering your last question first - here in UK compared to you guys - lamentable...! If people saw my whole 3” slippie collection they’d think I was nuts, want me put away. Ok, slight exaggeration but not too far off with some. Those camping and hardware stores here that do sell knives, predominantly they’re Victorinox and Leatherman.......all behind glass, every single one. Ironically (and stupidly) the biggest killer in knife crime here is often free to pick (and/or steal) off a shelf - the cheapo plastic handled kitchen knife.

I know our biggest online knife retailer quite well and they sell all across the board, the cheapest to a few very nice customs. With Case knives, around 40 different models. Most purchases in UK are online, by far. From what I gather, this whole Coronavirus scene has brought about an uplift in sales

Getting GEC models here is not so easy sadly, and when they’re about, usually snapped up pretty quick.

Within the past three years, the Italian manufacturers have made stronger inroads to our UK market. They make a good product at reasonable prices. Easy to buy too, often direct from the factory. Same goes for some older established makers, like Boker and Puma - all easy to buy online, but rarely if ever seen in stores.

In comparison with USA, I’d suggest that with same old production rates and level of fit n finish coming out of Sheffield, the level of patriotism you guys have is far, far higher than we possess - this was brought home to me in the recent thread I started regarding Rough Rider slippies..! And, despite the amount of Chinese made items and components folk may have in their homes and lives, the emotions and personal feelings towards your cherished knives produces a swell of pride and concern for the home market that is very apparent and most understandable.

Am no good at economics, but would guess if, for example, a Big Mac in China can be produced at the same quality as one in West, and much less cost, then if they can do just the same with slipjoints............ we all have an issue if we want to protect our home markets. What’s the answer....? I’ve no idea.

What we do all possess, and no one can take away from us, is our choice.

Today, it’s Sunday, and I’m double-D...........gotta Dunlap in one pouch and a Dowell in the other

 

[JohnDF]

I think the simple fact is that if you just want a cutting tool, the modern folder is easier to purchase, easier to carry, easier to use, easier to maintain, and comes in a wide range of sizes, finishes, steels, prices, and styles. I carried a modern knife for years while working on ranches and competing in rodeos. It was a simple and easy to use tool. It wasn't until I grew older and my life slowed down that I heard the call of traditionals again. Nostalgia gets stronger as we age and I wanted the knives that reminded me of my youth and the older generation that influenced me.

 

[Chui]

I think the simple fact is that if you just want a cutting tool, the modern folder is easier to purchase, easier to carry, easier to use, easier to maintain, and comes in a wide range of sizes, finishes, steels, prices, and styles. I carried a modern knife for years while working on ranches and competing in rodeos. It was a simple and easy to use tool. It wasn't until I grew older and my life slowed down that I heard the call of traditionals again. Nostalgia gets stronger as we age and I wanted the knives that reminded me of my youth and the older generation that influenced me.

- good point, well made

 

[afishhunter]

What's the difference between Rough Ryder knives and Frost knives?
I was under the assumption they were owned by the same company and probably produced on the same line.

Frankly there should be little difference.... both made in China for US company..... From experience the Frost stuff simply doesn't hold up as well as the Rough Ryder slip joints. SMKW owns the Rough Ryder trademark and it is one they started themselves. Frost Cutlery owns the Frost lines (owned by the Frost family). They are not the same people at the top.....

Rough Ryder (and Marbles/Marbles Outdoors) are owned by SMKW. All the traditional Rough Ryder (and Marbles/Marbles Outdoors) folding knives are contract manufactured in China.
I don't know if the same is true for the modern Rough Ryder folders, or the fixed blades. I'm pretty sure all the Marbles fixed blades (with the few and (to me) uber expensive Anniversary Ideal knives that were made in USA (by Bear & Son?)) are made in China.

Frost is owned by the Frost family. I don't know if Jim Frost was directly related to the family.

Historically, Frost is known for the lowest of the low quality dollar and less "gas station specials" of the 1950's and 1960's.
Frost is still responsible for the lowest of the low quality "truckstop special" knives sold today. (yes, even lower quality than the Tac-Force, Mil-Tec, Master Cutlery, no name, etc. truckstop specials.) The main difference between the gas station specials of yesteryear were made in Japan. (at a time "Made in Japan" was considered much, much lower than even "Made in Pakistan" is today)

Frost's current truckstop specials are made in Pakistan, to the lowest quality standards, just as their "Made in Japan" gas station specials were: floppy dull blades (likely made from recycled car fenders. I've personally seen some Frost brand/model truckstop and gas station specials with the cutting edge almost as sharp as the spine.) horrendous fit and finish: cutting edges are not as sharp as the corners of the bolsters and edges of the grips on most that I saw. Also, those with a liner lock didn't lock, those with a back lock were so poorly finished, the back lock didn't work, either. As for sharpening and holding an edge? Forget it. You'll have better luck with a butter knife or spoon.
I've never seen one of their higher lines, such as "Steel Warrior" or "Uncle Lucky" in person. I've heard those are made in China, and are at least near Rough Ryder quality. I don't know for certain, but I don't think they are made in the same factory as Rough Ryder; any more than the offshore manufactured Buck knives are made in the same plant as Rough Ryder. (they ain't)

Frost does have in the "Ocoee River" line, some large Sunfish that look like they might be O.K. and of acceptable (to me) quality. However, since any purchase would be online, with no chance to inspect the knife, I'll pass. I'll "make do" with just/only the Rough Rider Smooth Tobacco Bone, and Zombie Nick large sunfish I have. (A great EDC by the way, despite their large size (or possibly because of the size, and the proportions/ shape) they don't "print" in the pocket of even the lightest business suit or formal attire tux, if you are unfortunate enough to need to wear a suit or tux on a daily basis.)

Personally, I don't trust Frost. Every Frost knife shaped object I was given when I was young, I deposited into the Mississippi River, from the middle of the old US HWY 136 toll bridge (they didn't charge a single kid, or small group of up to 5 kids on their bicycle(s) the toll) just as far from the bridge as my young arm could throw it.
(I and my friends also deposited a lot of Shimano bicycle components, and a couple Shimano (and early Zebco) "spinning reels"/"line twisters" in the same place. I'd be surprised if the dredging operations since didn't bring them up deep in the mud. I feel confident no one saw them or attempted to "rescue" one of those knife shaped objects or line twister "reels", if any were spotted.)(without exception, the Shimano "reels"/line twisters had also stopped functioning due to broken or stripped parts inside ... wore out/broken by bluegill and crappie ... in no more than one season, and usually less...)

 

[22-rimfire]

afishhunter Jim Frost and Jim Parker were old gunshow buddies. Both started up their knife operations from that starting point. Frost Cutlery is still "in the family". I have always believed that Jim Parker invested in SMKW (through John Parker) at the beginning and then was bought out over time by Kevin Pipes. Their first store opened in 1978. My earliest visits to their store were probably in the mid 80's. Jim Parker of course is deceased. Jim Frost still runs the Frost business with his family. If you visit the Frost store, the folks working make no bones about the knives.... they are what they are and have not changed or improved over time. They do not misrepresent the knives. As I said, the knives are what they are. It is true that at the beginning everything was made in Japan and as time wore on, those Japanese knives are superior to the Chinese stuff made for Frost Cutlery (at lease the slip joints were). The good thing is that KSF is just down the road but unless something has changed their store front is not open due to covid-19.

I have one of the Ocoee River Sunfish (Frost) knives and it is "okay" but it didn't age well.... the brass shows through and everything gets a yellowish tint. They say the handles loosen with time but I have not experienced that. I simply use other knives and any Frost stuff just gets left in my knife tub... mostly in their boxes except for that sunfish. Can't say if the Steel Warrior line is any better. My guess is No.

Shimano reels... line twisters? You will have to explain that one relative to their open faced spinning reels and relative to other brands of open faced spinning reels. Shimano derailers were fairly well regarded.

 

[afishhunter]

afishhunter

I have one of the Ocoee River Sunfish (Frost) knives and it is "okay" but it didn't age well.... the brass shows through and everything gets a yellowish tint. They say the handles loosen with time but I have not experienced that. I simply use other knives and any Frost stuff just gets left in my knife tub... mostly in their boxes except for that sunfish. Can't say if the Steel Warrior line is any better. My guess is No.

Shimano reels... line twisters? You will have to explain that one relative to their open faced spinning reels and relative to other brands of open faced spinning reels. Shimano derailers were fairly well regarded.

In the 1960's and 1970's friction shifter days, Shimano bicycle components had not yet reached "good stuff" level yet.
Even "Schwinn Approved" (French Hurret?) derailleurs were considered vastly superior.
Top brands were Campaglono, Sun Tour (despite being Japan) was the "poor man's Campy", Hurrett, Diacomp (brakes).
Back then, Shimano derailleurs were the same level as Falcon derailleurs are today.
I wasn't the only guy who removed any part stamped "Shimano" upgraded it with something better, and sent the Shimano to the bottom of the river or to the landfill.
I still don't like/trust Shimano. My last Shimano derailleur (1995) imploded on the way home from the pawnshop where I bought the bike. ... after less than a mile. (1985 Fuju Mt. Fuji) I put a old bottom tier steel Suntour on when I got home, and had no further derailleur problems the 10 years I had that bike.
Mupy current bike, a 1989 KHS Montana Summit was upgraded to a used SRAM X9 in back and new X3 seven speed trigger shifters.
No problems in almost 14 years.
I did keep the BioPace crank set though. It seem a little easier on my worn out/defective vantage antique knees.

 

[Ironbut]

I practice "catch and release" fishing too.
I do it for a variety of reasons... Mostly because I want to preserve our Blue Ribbon streams, but also because I hate to clean and cook fish. And you are correct, the fun for me is in the catching, not the cleaning and eating. You could also practice catch and release hunting, just bring a camera instead of a gun.

I don't bother fishing anymore. Around here the fish only bite twice a day- before I get there & after I leave.

 

[JohnDF]

before I get there & after I leave.

Lol...

 

[brownshoe]

I do the catch & release thing and for me the fun is in the catching. I however have been kind of a slacker with fishing lately and gave up hunting completely due to a meat allergy (related to tics). I would still hunt but I need a place to give the meat away and I don't want to spend $ processing large animals as anyone you give meat to want it in nice sealed bags. So, like you with fishing, it's not worth it to me to put much effort into hunting any more. Wish I could do practical catch & release with deer. As we get older, you really have to be careful with your footing in and around streams and rivers fishing. Nobody wants to get carried out of their favorite section of river due to an injury.

@Old Hunter Didn't know that Rough Ryders were being sold in hardware stores. I think that is great actually! Get rid of the Frosts. Would hate to see the store displays of Case knives go.

In a few states you can donate deer, processing is free, but you don't get any meat. I think it goes to old folks homes.

 

[brownshoe]

What's the difference between Rough Ryder knives and Frost knives?
I was under the assumption they were owned by the same company and probably produced on the same line.

Nobody really knows exactly who owns what. The traditional forum moderators lumped inexpensive Chinese made knives all in one thread "'cause they're all chinese y'know". You can look at the different brands and see differences in construction and patterns. I find it hard to believe there aren't multiple companies for inexpensive knives, just like ther are for premium Chinese made cutlery. Plus Buck, Spyderco, Browning, AGRussell etc. all have Chinese models, I'd bet a dollar they come from different firms.

 

[jackknife]

In a few states you can donate deer, processing is free, but you don't get any meat. I think it goes to old folks homes.

My home is an old folks home, but nobody ever delivered any surprise venison here!

 

[brownshoe]

My home is an old folks home, but nobody ever delivered any surprise venison here!

I've heard some complaints about too much venison casserole

 

[22-rimfire]

In the 1960's and 1970's friction shifter days, Shimano bicycle components had not yet reached "good stuff" level yet.
Even "Schwinn Approved" (French Hurret?) derailleurs were considered vastly superior.
Top brands were Campaglono, Sun Tour (despite being Japan) was the "poor man's Campy", Hurrett, Diacomp (brakes).
Back then, Shimano derailleurs were the same level as Falcon derailleurs are today.
I wasn't the only guy who removed any part stamped "Shimano" upgraded it with something better, and sent the Shimano to the bottom of the river or to the landfill.
I still don't like/trust Shimano. My last Shimano derailleur (1995) imploded on the way home from the pawnshop where I bought the bike. ... after less than a mile. (1985 Fuju Mt. Fuji) I put a old bottom tier steel Suntour on when I got home, and had no further derailleur problems the 10 years I had that bike.
Mupy current bike, a 1989 KHS Montana Summit was upgraded to a used SRAM X9 in back and new X3 seven speed trigger shifters.
No problems in almost 14 years.
I did keep the BioPace crank set though. It seem a little easier on my worn out/defective vantage antique knees.

My oldest bike is a Schwinn racing bike with what you would call friction shifters. You have to get used to it. My other bike (newer) has indexed shifters. My Schwinn needs attention but it essentially looks almost new. Adding indexed shifters to it might be a good idea but I have no idea of the cost or the amount of effort required.

I think we know the ownership of SMKW (Kevin Pipes' son pretty much runs it now) and Frost Cutlery pretty well. I don't know how active Jim Frost is in the business anymore. He is getting pretty old. What we don't know is what Chinese companies actually manufacture the slip joints. I recall visiting SMKW when they were in their old building which wasn't very impressive. Looked almost like a sheet metal barn. I wasn't really "into" knives at that point in my life and visiting that place was a low priority. I probably owned four knives total. It is actually really amazing to see the development between Sevierville and Pigeon Forge as compared to the way it was in the 70's.