Survival Blades - Big or Little

For trips to the woods I carry one hacking tool, one medium sized cutting tool, and one small cutting tool.

Hacking Tool:

Jungle = Newt Livesay RTAK
Everywhere Else = Gransfors Bruks Wilderness Hatchet

Medium Sized Cutting Tool = Ranger Knives RD6 when it arrives

Small Cutting Tool = Swiss Champ or Gerber Multi-plier


In my seperate survival kit I also carry an Al Mar Sere 2000.
 
The best survival knife is the one you have on you when you need it. With that in mind it is better to go over the characteristics of a good knife then to say "well you have to carry a fixed blade, a SAK, a multitool, an axe, a machete, and a Sebenza to cover everything." So in my mind this is what makes a good knife, with some things fixed blade specific and some folder specific:

1. Comfort-a knife has to be comfortable to use, in any position
2. Grip/ grip material- G10 is my favorite because it is the only one that doesn't absorb gas/kerosine/blood/electricity/ect, however the tradeoff is it isn't as grippy as...lets say.... canvas micarta, so you have to decide what you need more.
3. A strong blade with a strong point. Unless you are doing filet work you really don't want a blade that bends much when being used which could be dangerous. The point needs to be strong for making holes and doing detailed work. Therefore most prefer drop-points for survival knives. Also, double edged knives should be avoided.
4. Sharp-The knife should be sharp and easy to keep that way out in the field. Therefore serrated blades,even half serrated, arn't really the best choice, though half serrated is better then full. The knife should cut well too, "sharpened prybars" should be avoided.
5. Heat/Cold-The knife should be comfortable to use in both and should be able to be boiled to be sterilized
6. Clean-The knife needs to be easily cleaned.
7. Reinforced handle-A fixed blade should be full tanged and a folder should have steel or titanium liners.
8. Good mechanism-if a folder it should have a locking mechanism and the mechanism should be reliable, easy to use, safe, and work when exposed to dirt, mud, sand, ect.
9. Very few stress points-There should be no right angles cut out of the steel, which causes stress points. There shouldn't be a long blood groove/fuller or holes cut into the blade, as this makes a blade more prone to breakage/flexing (well, compared to the blade before the metal was removed anyway).
10. Good sheath (if fixed blade)-Needs to be cutproof, quiet, comfortable, secure
11. Lanyard hole-you don't want to loose your knife
12. Guard-You want something to stop your hand from sliding onto the blade, or to stop something from sliding into your hand. A half guard may be better then a full since it allows you to run a finger across the top of the blade for better fine control.
13. Pommel-It should have a pommel or exposed end to be used for banging/chipping/ect.
14. Squared off-it needs a squared off area that can be used with a ferrocium rod to avoid dulling the edge by using the edge to create sparks.
15. Single blade-your main knife should only be a knife, it shouldn't have a bunch of other implements like a SAK/Multi-tool. You can carry one if you choose, but your main cutting tools only purpose should be a knife. Some don't agree, but personally I think the simplier the design, the less that can go wrong.
16. heat treat- A bad heat treatment can really hurt a knives performance.
17. One handed- Be it a folder or fixed blade you should be able to remove it from where you keep it, open it (folder), use it, and return it without using your other hand. Also, try doing that with your non-dominant hand.

That is all I can think of right now, if you can think of more add to it. Maybe we can come up with a huge list of the best survival knife features that knifemakers/designers could use.
 
I enjoy these survival knife threads, because that's exactly what got me into knives in the first place - wilderness adventure.

From my own experience and training, I've learned that having any sort of blade is much better than being blade-less; with that in mind, I also believe that a large knife trumps a small knife and a fixed-blade is better than a folder.

I took a wilderness survival course a couple of times and, in the course, we had to build shelter, make traps/snares, clean and prepare food, start fire, and do all manner of tasks with our knife. The class-issued knife was a Cold Steel Bushman and it worked very well. It definitely gave me an idea of what I do and don't like in a wilderness knife.

Based on those experiences and the training, here's what I like in a wilderness survival knife:
- 7" - 10" fixed blade
- comfortable handle (a subjectuve measure, dependant on the individual)
- a strong tip that doesn't bend/break
- a substantial finger guard; I prefer a single, bottom finger guard
- Micarta or G-10, preferably textured in a manner that will aid traction without rubbing my hands raw
- a pommel or tang extension with which I can pry and hammer
- sufficient thickness to have good lateral strength, at least 3/16" thick at the spine
- carbon steel
- quality. There are definitely some lower-priced blades that are excellent survival knives; there are even more expensive baldes that are excellent survival knives :) Bottom line, something that is going to work and keep on working

These are my preferences. I believe that a large knife, while cumbersome, can be used for finer tasks; however, a smaller knife isn't going to do as well with chopping and batoning.

I think that ras made a good point about there being a difference between wilderness and everyday survival. It is true that, around town, basically no one will have a large fixed blade on them. In lieu of this, we all (here, at least :cool: ) carry a folding knife. However, I know that, if I was trapped in a burning car or had to smash my way out of a building or ... I'd prefer having a fixed blade knife on me. I do live in a state where this is legal, so that's not a problem.
Blade magazine's most recent edition had a good article on EDC survival knives. The author of that article believes that any fixed EDC should be no larger than 8" overall, for ease of comfort and concealability. THis means that, around town, perhaps the ideal knife is a fixed-blade knife with a 3.75" balde and a 4" handle, worn somewhere that is both comfortable and accessible.

Another consideration is traveling. Whenever I leave town, I like to have my wilderness blade with me - you never know when car problems, bad weather, or any other type of circumstance will necessitate that a traveller fend for him/herself, for a while. When I travel, I take my basic wilderness gear with me - 550 cord, iodine water disinfectant, duct tape, small 1st aid kit, signal mirror and whistle, a smallish tarp, a metal match, a portable knife sharpener (well, gotta buy one of these soon :cool: ) a small camp shovel, and a few other things. The kit isn't really that big, but it can cover most any situation. After I rolled my Jeep a couple of months ago :eek: , I once again realized that IT CAN HAPPEN TO ME!
 
TT, I'm with you. I do not think the "best" is whatever you happen to have, so I enjoy kicking around ideas about what is the best. Always a chance to learn something.
 
Big v Small
What Trout Tamer mentioned is a huge can of worms in the winderness survival world. He prefers big blades for batoning, chopping, ect, while I lean more towards the small blade mindset, because I always found the bigger blades uncomfortable to carry and therefore would leave them in my pack (and I consider anything not strapped to my person to not be there when I need it). The biggest blade I ever carry (other then a machete when needed) is probibly a Nimravus Cub or Small Kabar and with all the survival stuff I do I haven't been undergunned yet, though i'm sure Trout Tamer would probibly feel uncomfortable with my sharps selection. I guess what it comes down to is comfort. If you feel comfortable that what you carry can do what you need it too then you will spend more time surviving and less time worrying.

So, my own thought on the basic issue without going into detail is "The best survival blade is one you are comfortable with and are sure you can rely upon it for the tasks you need to perform."
 
I'm pretty much in agreement w/ Skammer on this issue. I like the 7.5 inch blade heavy blade. I'm using a Swamp Rat Camp Tramp right now and love it. When ever I'm in the woods I just toss it in my bag and I don't find it to be burdensome at all. To provide a prime example of why I feel its superior to a shorter thinner blade; I went out near my home during a small snow storm (mixed w/ freezing rain) last week. There were several inchs of snow on the ground and freezing precipitation coming down...so needless to say everything was wet and or frozen. I very intentionally had come out to practice fire building. I used the CT to cut down a little over head cover as well as to Split open the dead dry stumps and storm felled timber and cut large chuncks of dry wood. It also shaved into the center of smaller dead limbs to provide dry tinder. With two matches and a Petroleum Jelly impregnated cotton ball I had myself a good fire going in under 20 minutes. This approach would have snapped of a thinner blade such as a Mora...given I could have taken a different tact but I feel it ultimately would have taken more time and more energy, both of which are critical to the survivor. I think a lot of this question has to do with environment, and for those I frequent..the larger blade is the way to go IMO.
 
Here is my sharps selection:
sharps.JPG


1. The main blade is the Benchmade Nimravus Cub carried horizontally on my back or side.
2. The Gerber Backpax handles my chopping, crushing, chipping, hammering.
3. The One handed Trekker (non-serrated) is my backup. It stays in my pack, but makes an excellent outdoor knife as the grip is solid, it locks, it has a long saw, an awl, and a longer philips screwdriver (lacking in the charge).
4. The soldier is my loan out. If someone needs a knife or needs to cut something that is the knife I give them. If they take it or break it i'm out $25.00, which is a lot better then breaking my $65 Charge (which I could never find again for that price) or $120.00 Cub I also keep that in my pocket so if something happens to my pack and belt I still have something.
5. The Charge is my multi-tool and main folding blade. Excellent outdoor multitool.
6. The Swiss Card light I wouldn't want to rely on, but it is nice to know I have a light, knife, magnifying glass (fire), and a pin (improvised basic compass) all in one package, again kept deep in my pocket in case something happens to my pack and belt.

If I need something extra I have a Machete and Sawvivor, but I rarely pack those unless i'm going on extended trips.

Like I said, I lean more towards the small knife mentality and with what I have I can do everything the big knives can.
 
The answer is both, IMO. Ye ol' BOB has a 12" machete (veterin of much camping) and an old Criss Reeve holow handle (pilot or aviator, its been too many years to know for sure) along with a 3.5" folder. When combined with the swiss army tinker (quite possibly the best tool I have ever bought) in my pocket, the cutting solutions are well covered. A Svensaw takes care of wood gathering issues.
All this discussion reminds me that I haven't purchased a good knife in several years (currently looking at the Rat variants).
Enjoy!
 
Sharpshooter:

That's a great collection -- thanks for sharing.

I think you've got all the bases covered with some top-notch gear. The only thing I have that you don't is a mid-sized folding saw, like a Bahco Laplander or Silky Pocket Boy. These aren't necessary -- just fun extras.

Bear
 
I used to carry one that was bought at a Boy Scout store. It was actually a really nice piece (though it has since been discontinued, as with most well made Boy Scout items). However, I didn't really use it much since I didn't cut too much wood bigger then the Charge/Trekker's saw could handle, and if I did the hatchet would work on it (or the sawvivor if I brought it). I guess for me it wasn't really worth carrying, as I don't like to carry anything I don't use often unless I think I could really need it later and it doesn't take up a lot of space and weight.
 
"I consider anything not strapped to my person to not be there when I need it"

Totally in agreement on that one.

"The best survival blade is one you are comfortable with and are sure you can rely upon it for the tasks you need to perform."

Again, I wholeheartedly agree. This is the crux of what a survival knife should be. To add a little to the statement, I think the knife should be one that the survivor has hands-on experience with. These guys would agree:
http://www.us-rsog.org/USRSOG-Blades.htm

This is a really good wilderness survival website. It is maintained by former or current spec. ops military whose primary focus is on training current military on wilderness survival techniques. Here are a couple of quotes that I found illuminating, regarding the discussion at hand.

On folding knives as survival knives:
"Folding knives have their inherent weaknesses when they are called on in the field. With that said most people are more likely to have a folder on them as their every day carry blade. So you may end up in harms way with just that folder, which you chose to carry many years back. So be sure to choose wisely! Remember this, there is no law that says you can’t own more than one good knife... Al-Mar and Benchmade are usually the blades that we reach for first in the higher end custom-production blades. Columbia River, Gerber and Buck in the lower end selection... Special note: We like the Benchmade RTK that was designed by preparedness guru Doug Ritter. It has a very workable blade design."

On fixed blades as survival knives:
"...type of blade that we choose may be entirely different from the next S.E.R.E instructor’s choice. When U.S. RSOG cadre go to the field most of our cadre are carrying a large field blade. Most have 7-10 inches of working edge and are of a very basic design. A strong high carbon steel is our first choice for this blade... Understand a field blade is not a hunting or tactical blade. Its uses range from butchering, to whittling trap triggers to chopping timber to build shelters or a bamboo raft. The more that you use it the more responsive that it becomes in your hand. Would a 4-6 inch blade accomplish the same tasks? The answer is, “Sure.” Probably not with the same efficiency when it comes to chopping though. We have never gone into an environment whether it be jungle, timbered forest, everglade swamp, mountains or desert terrain that we didn’t need and appreciate a stout blade that could be used to chop with... The type of blade that any individual soldier, sailor, airman or marine carries should be based solely on his ability to manipulate the blade into doing what he needs to get accomplished. So if it works for you then use it. "

I think these words are very good advice concerning knives as survival tools. If you're interested in survival knives (as you probably are, since you're reading this post :D ) take a look at the site, especially the section on knives. They talk about different steels and brands that they like. Very cool.
 
TT, not to unduely pick at a good site with generally good advice, but:

The site linked does suggest that steel type is the first consideration in selecting a knife. Most would say that maker is more important because poor heat treatment will make junk of the best material and superior heat treatment is to be treasured. (Besides, on a practical level you only have the word of the maker as to the steel used.)

Then there is blade design/geometry. That factor probably places ahead of steel type as well. The best hollow-ground blade by the best maker will not equal a convex ground blade of the same steel from the same maker -- for toughness. Clearly, the author knows design is important since he comments on the weaknesses of the "KA-Bar" design.

The site also suggests looking for such "stainless steels" as Cold Steel's Carbon V or D-2. The second, a favorite of mine, is only "semi-stainless," and the first is not stainless by any definition -- rusts real well IME.

Still, nit-picking aside, a good site to look at with some real good advice.
 
"The site linked does suggest that steel type is the first consideration in selecting a knife. Most would say that maker is more important..."

In the wilderness survival class I took, the instructors were very adamant that stainless steel is not a good field knife steel. These men had serious outdoor experience and opinions I trusted. Therefore, I don't find it surprising that the web site suggests that steel type is most important, as both my own instructors and the web site maintainers have similar backgrounds. Clearly, a good maker/manufacturer is important. In the site, the people go on to list different makers that they trust. In the site, they say that they will not give an opinion on a knife until they've used it hard for a year. This leads me to believe that they look at the knife as a total package - heat treat, steel type, blade geometry, handle configuration, manufacturer reliability, etc. Essentially, they believe that if it works, as proven by rigorous, ongoing use, then the knife is worthy. From their experience, they speak of what has consistently functioned for them.

"The site also suggests looking for such "stainless steels" as Cold Steel's Carbon V or D-2"

Well, re-reading that part of the site, they lump stainless steel in with carbon steel. The way they worded it was, "A strong high carbon steel is our first choice for this blade... A strong flexible steel that is easier to sharpen than most stainless steel is very important to us. There are good stainless steels on the market that are tempered to reasonable hardness. Some of the steels that we look for are Cold Steels Carbon-V, 154cm, AUS-6, AUS-8, ATS-34, 1095 and D2 just to name a few."

In the sentence after that which I have italicied, put the emphasis on "are" - this shifts the meaning from the seemingly-misleading interpretation that Carbon V and D2 are stainless to an interpretation that, along with carbon steels, there are also some good stainless steels. Then, they go on to give a list of both carbon and stainless steels that fit their requirements. I think the wording of the sentences can be somewhat misleading, but I get what they are saying.

So, I suppose I'm done picking at your nits, now. :D :cool:
 
Having used both stainless and non-stainless high carbon steel for years outdoors I really prefer a good stainless for outdoor use now, when I used to carry a high carbon steel knife (one was 1095, the other 5160 I think) and I would sleep outdoors it would have rust on it the next morning just sitting in my pocket or on my pack. Even Aus 8 rusted a bit after one night in my boot. Being a knife collector I can also assure you the knives were always wiped down after use and before being put away. If you are going to use a high carbon steel it needs to be coated, or you need to keep a coat of oil on it, wiping it down alone does not work outdoors. Just something to keep in mind. 154cm and S30V have become my favorite steels, as they are stainless, sharpen almost as easily as carbon steels (and much easier to sharpen then say, M2), are hard, tough, not as brittle as D2, and the list goes on. From use I really think the positives of those good stainless steels outweigh the negatives compared to high carbon. However, those are personal opinions, I still haven't met a stainless I could slap on a flat rock I find and get it pretty sharp, so it always wins there.

Now, as to steel being very important. Did you ever notice how a SAK blade can get scary sharp on a stone, even though it uses a low end steel, but a $400 Strider or $200 Benchmade needs a Sharpmaker/Edgepro/Lansky system to get that sharp or only slightly sharper and stays that sharp only slightly longer? A thin blade or thin grind simply cuts better and is easier to sharpen then one that is really thick unless the steel is extremely bad (I've had a few cheap pretty thin pot steel knives that won't take a fine edge worth anything). I really think one should look at the grind and heat treatment (maker maybe too) way before they worry about steel type.

This is also why I carry a small knife and a hatchet as opposed to just a large knife. I know I can keep my small knife shaving sharp for the purpose of cutting and fine work, while the hatchet I can beat on the edge as much as I want and not worry as much about having to resharpen it, chipping it, breaking it, ect. When I baton wood quite a few times I have hit knots, dirt/grit, and even rocks which can really kill an edge. Again, that is my experience, others may vary.
 
Shrpshooter,

Thats a well thought out kit, I may be missing it, but do you have a small stone tucked away in one of the sheaths? And aslo a fire starting whatever?

The best part of this kit is everything is carried on your person.

I like to fish in a swampy portion of the Congaree river here in S.C.

If I were to go overboard or sink the boat(have come close a couple of times) :eek:, the nice thing about this kit is it would not be in a pack, floating or sinking down the river

Also, you have purchased all of this for less than several knives that I own.

Per dollars spent a great kit :cool:
 
I have come to like knives in the 4" blade range. It started with the Mora's and about 5 months ago I picked up a BRKT NorthStar. When I first got it, I thought the handle a bit small, but as with anything else, the more I used the blade, the more I got used to it's particular characteristics and quickly learned to like the knife. It cuts extemely well and I think that it's well designed for it's intended use.

 
As has been noted, I don't think there is one "superknife" that will do everything well, and trade-off's have to be made. I think the most generally useful knife for most outdoor tasks in a moderate sized folder or fixed blade. My current favorite is the Bark River North Star, with the Swamp Rat Howling Rat not too far behind. My choice for a combo would be a SAK with a saw blade; the North Star; and a small hatchet. If I were forced to choose only ONE bladed instrument, it would be the North Star.
 
scfishr said:
Shrpshooter,

Thats a well thought out kit, I may be missing it, but do you have a small stone tucked away in one of the sheaths? And aslo a fire starting whatever?

The best part of this kit is everything is carried on your person.

I like to fish in a swampy portion of the Congaree river here in S.C.

If I were to go overboard or sink the boat(have come close a couple of times) :eek:, the nice thing about this kit is it would not be in a pack, floating or sinking down the river

Also, you have purchased all of this for less than several knives that I own.

Per dollars spent a great kit :cool:
Click to expand...

For field sharpening I usually use the diamond part of the Charge's file, though I do have a BSA compass pouch that I wear on my belt that has my PSK (with a spark lite), a plastic garbage bag, spare flashlight batteries, and a DMT folding diamond stone. My usually firestarting equipment is a Permanent match (kept in my pocket along with a flat fox 40 and photon on a key ring) and a ferrocium rod (BSA Hotspark or Doan magnesium block with Ferro rod on top) My flashlight is a Surefire E1e-HA with the LED head. I carry a bit of steel wool so I could use the battery from that as a fire starter, or steel wool also holds a spark from a ferro rod, combined with the large amount of vasiline soaked cotten and few pieces of fatwood i've never had a problem starting a fire in wind, snow, rain, ect.

Like you I have experienced losing my pack and coming close and I have seen people loose their pack or forget to pack something. I learned not to rely on anything you have in your pack as being there, plus if I ever need to move quickly (Fire, emergency, getting help, ect) I know I can drop my pack and still have basic gear. You mention a great kit for the money, what is interesting is if you look at some of the best survivors world wide most of their gear is very cheap and simple. Always remember that expensive gear doesn't make you a good survivor, extensive knowledge and the will to survive does.
 
I really like the way the RSOG guys describe their reasoning for the blades they choose. I'm in the large blade camp, btu always have at least one small blade on me as well. I say, to each his own. I don't know why the large blade small blade guys go at it like Ford and Chevy guys, but it is what it is.
 
Here's something to ponder while on this subject. I'm a "recreational" outdoorsman, hunt, hike, and your basic messing around in the woods so I don't have as much experience as some of you. I've been reading this thread and find it interesting all of the different opinions. Since I make mostly hunting/outdoor working knives, I would like opinions of blade grind types to go along with the rest of the ideas included here. Opinions on the best type of grind in different wilderness/survival situations. I hope I'm not hi-jacking, just adding more insight into the "survival" knife. Thanks
Scott
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top