Survival Blades - Big or Little

[Lazarus Long]

Bigger is better! You can do almost everything with a big knife that you can with a small knife, but you can't do most of the things with a small knife that you can do with a big knife. Just my philosophy

 

[ras]

Lazarus brings up a good point in that if you have only one knife in a survival situation, you're better off with a big blade (all else being equal). However, I'd rather have a large survival type blade AND a smaller utility blade. Take a look at Fehrman Knives, I've got both teh Final Judgement and the Peacemaker. Both knives are fairly bulletproof and complement each other well. Add your favorite SAK/utility folder and there's not much you can't deal with. Just my $.02.

 

[Cliff Stamp]

...I have destroyed machettes on hard wood in the past with ease, its the wrong type of blade for northern climates.

Which types? Decent ones like Barteaux and Martindale should not be destroyed, unless defective, they are not optimal though, they stick and the vibration can be excessive. I have a couple around if you want to try one out. They handle the cutting well in regards to durability but a primary grind on thicker steel is a better choice, golok/parang.

...this is a LOADED topic

It usually comes down to experience, always ask to see what else is being used, if the poster has only used a quality axe and junk long blades, then it is no surprise that everything points to axes.

Many of us carry a saw and yes it is faster to saw a 3 inch tree with a saw ...

Depends on the wood and the soil. If the tree is properly rooted and pine or similar soft/medium fir, a decent long blade gets about 2" of penetration, this means it takes down 3-4" sticks in just a few hits. Two to four to open up the notch and one on the back and then it is done. You can't match this with a saw. Of course if the wood is knotty, or the soil is rocky and the tree will move, or the wood is just really hard, then saws can pull ahead.

Splitting firewood to get at the dry center is a pretty important skill in very wet weather and does make a big difference in getting a good fire going. A saw cannot do this in any way.

Make a series of cuts horizontally into the wood, then hit them with a rock, they will break off. A lot more time than splitting of course, but it can be done.

A saw blade cannot cut anything that requires a sharp edge either.

The quality japanese ones can cut cardboard, ropes, pastics, webbing, leather, synthetics, even flesh, though they tear it up. Similar to a really aggressive serration pattern, no where near optimal but functional.

A short blade cannot be pounded through thick logs.

Start at the outside and work in sections, essentially taking off a slab at a time until you have reduced the piece in thickness enough to split directly.

Note none of the above is an arguement for actually packing those tools to do those things, just some information on how to make due with them if that is all you have, I prefer a longer blade, 14-16", 1/4", 2" wide, full flat or dual convex grind.

I always found the bigger blades uncomfortable to carry

Work with a decent sheath maker.

-Cliff

 

[Michael_Aos]

My most recent attempt at a "camping" knife -- seems like it would be an ideal "survival" knife as well.

 

[backwoodsman]

If I had to choose one knife it would be a big one, other wise I want both a small knife and a big old bowie or other heavy duty fixed blade. I use a blade everyday and can say that my 10'' bowie gets used more than the smaller one but it all depends what you get used to.It took a couple years to get into the habit of have a big knife but it was well worth it.

 

[sodak]

Just got back from a rainy camping trip. It was interesting.

Cutting fuzz sticks, the big knife could do it, but it was very tiring on the wrist, and as we got cold, control became an issue. Limbing dead trees, finding a good live branch to whack them off with was next to impossible, and using dead branches got me smacked by flying debris in the face a couple of times. The ideal solution was to turn my Trailmaster around and use the false edge. Worked like magic.

Given the choice of one, a large blade. But a SAK in the pocket in addition to the large blade can sure make your life in the woods a whole lot more pleasant.

 

[Cliff Stamp]

Cutting fuzz sticks, the big knife could do it, but it was very tiring on the wrist ...

If the edge is thin and acute enough, and depending on the guard, it can be of benefit to grip up on the blade in front of the handle, or use it as a draw knife to make shavings rather than a hammer or sabre grip on the handle. This can't compete with a decent small knife though like the Mora 2000, which will cut much better with far less fatigue.

Limbing dead trees, finding a good live branch to whack them off with was next to impossible, and using dead branches got me smacked by flying debris in the face a couple of times.

Limbing close in growth is hard, especially if the wood is dead, the edges are very sharp and can easily tear up skin. Even thick leather will get harshly abraded if you wear it around such wood. Sometimes it can go easier if you cut a stout club and beat the branches off. You do risk injury with this though, you take one to the eye and it is pirate city for the rest of your life. Unlikely though, I do it all the time.

-Cliff

 

[Ravaillac]

Sometimes it can go easier if you cut a stout club and beat the branches off. You do risk injury with this though, you take one to the eye and it is pirate city for the rest of your life. Unlikely though, I do it all the time.

I agree with that. A good kick or shaking can also often replace tool for "choping " dead wood or even falling (beware breaking tips).

 

[allenC]

Survival and blades--a very tricky subject indeed.

I think to myself...
What types of situations would you need to "survive"?
And would you have a large fixed-blade with you at the time?
and if you did, would it really help?


I don't really think you can compare the needs of folks who LIVE in the wilds of Siberia, or the jungles of the Phillippines, with the needs of a person who is merely lost in a national park in the lower 48 states.
Folks in less developed areas of the world sometimes use large blades (machetes, axes, hatchets, khukri, large fixed-blades), but not really for survival purposes, it's just everyday living to them.
They are homesteading, not waiting to be rescued or trying to hike out of the wilderness.


There are some instances that I could see becoming a survival situation:

A camping/hiking/fishing trip gone awry:
I can see how this could turn ugly very quickly and become a survival situation.
You get lost, you lose your gear during a river-crossing, an unexpected stormfront rolls in very quickly, you're cold and hungry and wet, you did'nt tell anyone where you were going, you have no means of communication, you did'nt build shelter or try and start a fire until AFTER the rain and sleet started coming down...
I really don't see how a larger blade would make any real difference in this type of disaster.


Or an airplane crash (like in Castaway) or a diaster-at-sea (like the Titanic):
Not much you can do if you're a passenger since you will not be allowed to bring whatever you like onboard.
But if you're the pilot or captain of the boat or plane, I don't see any reason to not have a complete "pioneer kit" (folding shovel, axe, machete, saw) and your own knife in your pocket.
You might end up far from any help for a very long time.


A cross-country road trip gone bad (like in the movies Breakdown or Wrongturn):
First, don't let your wife go off with a stranger while you stay with the car in the middle of the desert (those who have seen Breakdown know what I mean).
Second, stick to the main highways in West Virginia and avoid inbred-mutated-cannibal-mountainfolk (from Wrongturn of course).
I cannot see how a large fixed-blade would help.
But I do recommend four things to always have when on a "road trip" in the USA:
At least $200.00 dollars cash.
A major credit-card with a large available balance.
A LARGE detailed, up-to-date map.
A pistol (with extra ammo) for yourself and your wife (or your traveling partner).


Urban disasters like Hurricanes, typhoons, tsumani, Volcano, fires, floods, etc:
I'm not sure if a large fixed-blade would help or not.
Maybe someone who has survived one of these situations could share his or her experience.

We did have a major ice-storm down here a several years back and it knocked down alot of trees.
And while I did'nt see anyone using a large fixed-blade, I did see a lot of guys using chainsaws on trees that had fallen across the roads.
In fact, I bought a chainsaw for myself afterwards.


Overall, I think that a large fixed-blade simply is'nt very neccessary for most survival situations.
And I think that folks who carry one in to the field will soon find themselves looking for any excuse to use their large blade.
And this can be very bothersome for those, like myself, who support low-impact-hiking and camping.

Just my two cents worth,
Allen.

 

[chazz]

busse battle mistess is what i would want if i was in the middle of the woods alone.

 

[Gossman Knives]

I think the most important thing to remember when venturing somewhere where a possible survival situation would occur is to have the proper equipment on hand. If possible have a large and small blade with you. In an urban situation you may have to make do with what you have at your disposal. I learned when I was a boy scout, "Be Prepared".
Scott

 

[Elkchsr]

A true survival knife is any thing that helps in a survival situation..

The trick is being able to use even sharpened rocks to get by in a pinch..

Russ...

 

[randjack]

I think it all depends upon the environment. In south and west Texas, there just isn't much to cut with a big knife. My biggest carry knife is a 6" Randall that is great for quartering game and aroung a camp/kitchen, but doesn't get much use rough cutting wood. Mesquite and oak if dead are easier to deal with with a saw or battoning. If green, you can cut awfully big stuff by bending/flexing. I get by quite well 99% of the time with a Fallkniven F1 and a hand axe.

If you are around big standing wood, I can see a different scenario at work, or in a place with vines and such in thick underbrush. I've got 9 and 10" blades for that sort of place, and a 21" Sven saw. I've not had the need to fell anything big, yet.

 

[ras]

We can get really wrapped up in semantics (other threads have already been there) regarding what constitutes a survival knife versus a wilderness knife or folding knife. The maxim that a survival knife is the knife on you is very true.

In many survival situations you won't have any knife (commercial airplane crash et al). Doug Ritter (Critter here IIRC) named his version of the Benchmade Griptilian the RSK Mk1, Ritter Survival Knife. It's a folder with a 3.44" blade, not a 10" fixed blade. The idea is that in a survival situation you might actually have access to a good folder while that bigger blade is somewhere else. So Critter optimized the Griptilian blade shape, upgraded the blade steel and came up with a folding knife that would be very usable in a survival situation.

My yellow mini-RSK is in the backpack I carry every day. I carry other knives (BM 940, 941 or CRK Mnandi) for daily use so the RSK never needs to come out of its pocket in the backpack, significantly reducing the chances of it being misplaced. Alongside is a yellow 4AA LED flashlight and it stays there too. This (along with other stuff) is daily carry gear and other than being checked occasionally, they are not used.

In order to use a knife in a survival situation you need to have access to it. The survival situation that comes to mind where you might have a knife with a 10" fixed blade to use as a survival knife, is a camping/hiking/canoeing trip gone awry. In this situation you deliberately went into the area and you went in equipped. In my mind the 10" bladed knife we're discussing is a wilderness knife. The survival application makes it a survival knife by default, but unless you intend to EDC that knife such that it is always available for any situation, how can you call it a survival knife as it sits in a drawer or on a shelf in your closet?

In most survival situations you will be fortunate to have access to a folding knife. A big fixed blade would be a luxury.

 

[Brian6244]

I am also from the "knife you have with you" school of cuttlery zen when is comes to what is truely my survival knife. That's why I have always EDC'd a large, extremely strong folder which in the past year or so has been one only two different knives; a CRK large Sebenza or a Ritter Grip. My current EDC is the CRK large Regular Sebenza and this is absolutely because I have unexpected survival situation preparedness in mind and it is one of the strongest folders I have ever used. The only exception being when I am in the water a lot (I'm never without a knife, even when swimming, skiing etc) when I switch to a Spyderco 4" Salt folder. Now having said that, if we're talking strictly wilderness survival then I would have a 4" fixed blade of some type (currently a Mora #840 but often in the past and probably also in the future, a 4" CRK one piece) with me as well. I am a firm believer in a 4" fixed blade in when not on the pavement even when just on a day hike, though I will admit to the occasional (though rare) day hike when I carry only my EDC folder. I have tried several larger fixed blades when hiking/hunting/camping/etc and IMHO anything over 4" doesn't have enough increased usefulness to justify the increased weight. I dont chop. Im just not a chopper (I used to be a chopper but I'm reformed) because I find batoning to be far more useful. I have no trouble batoning the crud out of stuff with a 4" blade.

Oh... you requested pics so heres pics of all the knives I mentioned specifically.

CRK Large Regular Sebenza

Ritter Grip

Mora #840

CRK 4" Knives
Mountaineer I

Shadow III

Aviator

BTW: I foresee a CRK Mountaineer I in my future and perhaps as my outdoor EDC fixed blade to replace the Mora #840. Just need some time for my wallet to recover.

 

[Magumbo]

My survival knives of choice are the schrade clifhanger and the Glock combat knife. The schrade is great because it is light, very handy (easy release belt clip and one-hand-open capability), and relatively big for a folder. The glock, although it is heavy, serves the its purpose when it comes to bbig "heavy" jobs like splitting wood, cutting roots/wire, and opening cans. I carry both whenever i am out in the wild. They are both great, well made knives. I would recomend them to everyone. (the are extreemly cheap as well!!!)

 

[Cliff Stamp]

... but unless you intend to EDC that knife such that it is always available for any situation, how can you call it a survival knife as it sits in a drawer or on a shelf in your closet?

Do people really EDC all their survival equipment? If I am driving to work the chances for a sudden "survival" senario are kind of remote so I don't carry a large fixed blade or axe (they are in the car however).

But when if I leave to go fishing, hiking, camping, or just drive out across the island it is different. A long blade is no different in that regard than other specialized "survial" equipment like a ponco that you tend not to carry with you at all times.

Part of being prepared is realizing when such a situation can happen and preparing for it. Thus you have mini-kits which are not intended to replace large survival packs but just be better than nothing.

-Cliff

 

[ras]

Cliff,
Good point. I EDC gear that would be good to have and carries easily. IMO most survival situations can be fixed by being found. Therefore, part of my equipment is my survival GPS (Garmin Geko 301) and my survival cellphone (Moto 710 with the big battery).

My point is that the "survival knife" term is situationally dependent. The RSK was designed with survival in mind and is so named, but it's really just a Benchmade folder. The Fehrman Final Judgement is in their survival series, but it's really just a big knife in a great steel.

 

[ishiyumisan]

For experienced outdoorsmen, this controversy is entirely academic. They will have found what works best for them and have the experience to use it competently, small blade or large. Often, the choice is to simply carry two knives, each sized and optimized for its particular tasks. When you have to rely on a single blade which could end up being used by almost anyone, it pays to be conservative.
"

I agree: smart or knowledge to carry more than one kinfe- knifes personaly two big one. or more;
ach person has to decide for them selves what combination of blades works for them ... yes　plural。。。。


A big knife can do the jobs of a small knife but a small knife cant do the job of a big one..............A short bladed knife is not long enough to create much useful forse and does not have enough weight at the right place to be effective ecc..................

plan no useless move, take no step in vain.

ishiyumisan

 

[Brian Jones]

I think the most important thing to remember when venturing somewhere where a possible survival situation would occur is to have the proper equipment on hand. If possible have a large and small blade with you. In an urban situation you may have to make do with what you have at your disposal. I learned when I was a boy scout, "Be Prepared".
Scott

Scott,

I agree to a point -- but for me, the most important thing is knowledge of how to survive, the priorities, and being able to improviseto meet your needs. I believe that anyone who is serious about survival should know how to do it with no tools coming in, and be able to make them as needed. For me, knowledge is the most important part of the "Be Prepared" motto.

Once the knowledge is there, then your point about the proper equipment on hand is right on...

Best,

~Brian.