Survival Blades - Big or Little

[tknife]

I'm no expert either, but I know what I like in knives. Flat grinds work best for me. Most of the knives I use, and want to buy are all flat ground.

 

[Rainmaker870]

Here's something to ponder while on this subject. I'm a "recreational" outdoorsman, hunt, hike, and your basic messing around in the woods so I don't have as much experience as some of you. I've been reading this thread and find it interesting all of the different opinions. Since I make mostly hunting/outdoor working knives, I would like opinions of blade grind types to go along with the rest of the ideas included here. Opinions on the best type of grind in different wilderness/survival situations. I hope I'm not hi-jacking, just adding more insight into the "survival" knife. Thanks
Scott

The more I use knives in the field, and the more I have to sharpen knives in the field, the more I have come to appreciate the full convex grind.

 

[Benjamin Liu]

I don't see a reason to choose one or the other. Carry both. I can do pretty much all I need to do with my Kris Cutlery Bonifacio Bolo (much lighter than it looks) and Victorinox Huntsman. I also like a small and medium fixed blade for other tasks. A neck knife and extra SAK won't add much weight.

 

[shpshooter]

Razorback - Knives,

A lot of survival gurus prefer a scandi type grind (with a flat grind coming in second) on smaller blades as it seems to cut best. Scandi really shines in wood cutting and shaving tasks while keeping the spine thick to prevent breakages when stressed.

For larger knives a convex grind is prefered as it keeps a lot of metal towards the tip which is good for chopping/battoning. However, this grind is almost impossible to properly sharpen in the field, so the flat grind is the best compromise.

If you are making a "do all" survival knife the flat grind is best, if you are doing a small cutter then scandi is best, if you are doing a large chopper then flat is probibly best. Combine that with a SAK style traditional spear point or drop point, a nice sharp tip, and no fullers, grooves, saw backs, clip swedges, ect you will have a good survival knife. If you are thinking of designing/creating one, let me know, I could offer some more advice.

 

[Gossman Knives]

Thanks for the replies so far. I like the convex grind on the larger choppers, but was curious what was "ideal" in the smaller sized blade. I do flat grinds and have just gotten into hollow grinding. What is the concesus on the hollow grind as a wilderness blade? The scandi grind, I'm assuming is a flat grind that is a short distance up the blade. Please clarify if I'm wrong. I haven't seen too many of the scandi grind knives. Shpshooter, I may just take you up on that offer. Thanks again.
Scott

 

[Rainmaker870]

For larger knives a convex grind is prefered as it keeps a lot of metal towards the tip which is good for chopping/battoning. However, this grind is almost impossible to properly sharpen in the field, so the flat grind is the best compromise.

I have found the convex grind to be the simplest, least complicated and least angle-sensitive grind to sharpen ANYwhere - and especially in the field. I used to find it mentally difficult to sharpen convex grinds/edges until I read the convex sharpening faq written/compiled by Buzzbait. From that moment on it's been my #1 favorite... although my hunting/skinning blades still wear a traditional V-grind at the edge. Even while hunting, though, I carry a utility with a convex edge for most uses.

 

[Thomas Linton]

It should be noted that relatively few knives made in Scandinavia over the last decades (including those not made for export) have the so-called "Scandi" grind. That is probaly due to the fact that a flat grind with a small secondary bevel is a much stronger edge for a do-it-all knife (with the convex edge being even stronger, all things equal).

The so-called "Scandi" grind would be theoretically better for wood-working, although many professional carving knives can be found -- used - with secondary bevels. Pehaps professional carvers sometimes have issues of edge strength.

A hollow grind is generally regarded as too weak for all 'round work. It's sort of the anti-convex grind.

 

[Gossman Knives]

A hollow grind is generally regarded as too weak for all 'round work. It's sort of the anti-convex grind.

Thanks Thomas, that's what I kind of figured. I'm wanting to be able to offer all three grinds so as to be able to satisfy the needs of my customers. I do flat grinds with the secondary bevel so that the blade has enough thickness to still be strong. I normally put a convex edge on a flat grind. What is the best edge for this discussion? Convex or flat? Thanks, this is very helpful.
Scott

 

[Thomas Linton]

. . . What is the best edge for this discussion? Convex or flat? Thanks, this is very helpful.
Scott

Scott, that's a matter of opinion. Some pretty well-regarded makers like convex and some of their equally well-regarded peers like flat. As a user, I have knives that perform well in either configuration. My present leaning towards convex is just one guy's opinion.

 

[longbow50]

I'm another covert to the convex grind. My first experience with the grind came with my Khukuri. Then I picked up the NorthStar and it is easily as good a slicer and whittler as my M2K and leaps way ahead in field use because of it's full and tapered tang and thickness of spine. I won't be clearing any forests with it, but danged if it won't do everything else I need it to do and make it all seem easy.

 

[shpshooter]

I'd say something flat ground with a slight convex edge (not quite a full Moran/Seed edge) would perform very well. Basically a flat grind with a secondary convex beveled edge would do well at slicing, be strong along the edge, tip, and spine, and be pretty easy to reshape/sharpen in the field. I find most people can't maintain a flat grind anyway, so it eventually becomes semi-convex.

Like mentioned a hollow grind is considered not to be a very good field grind because it is one of the weakest grinds, even though it makes a very nice slicer (the Sebenza for example). It is good in a folder which usually doesn't suffer a lot of stress, but anything larger then.... say....4" really could use something stronger.

The scandi grind is loved because since their is no secondary bevel it is real easy to sharpen on a flat stone. Just lay the blade flat and stroke basically. Of course it is a profile that really shines in "easy to resharpen high carbon non stainless steels". If you were to do that grind in D2, M2, or S30V it would take a week to resharpen in the field because of all the metal you would have to remove.

Anyway, like I mentioned before the grind you said would make a very good choice. A flat grind with a semi-convex edge (and maybe off flat as an option) would make an excellent start.

 

[Gossman Knives]

This is some excellent feedback. I wish I would have asked here sooner. Please add anymore that I may have missed. This is extremely helpful so I can advise an outdoor knife user what would work best for their particular situation. Thank you!
Scott

 

[Moine]

Scott,

Here's my humble take.

When I talk survival knives, I talk TOUGH knives. I don't want my edge to chip or roll when I need it the most. Yet, I still want something that cuts well and that is easy to maintain in the field. For that reason, I like convex grinds on my field knives, even the relatively small ones. Only the angle of the convex curve changes when I move up to large choppers or down to small users. I also make a MICRO bevel on the final edge with a steel. I keep it narrow, but it's there and it makes a difference in edge toughness. It's not even visible to the naked eye, but it changes many things.

Also, I want a thick blade, even on a small knife. A good example is the Fallkniven F1. I love that knife. It's got a thick, short blade with a thin convex edge. It's bullet proof for it's size and it cuts very well.

I reprofiled my ka-bar to make it convex as well.

My favorite blade (Swamp Rat Camp Tramp) has a slightly convex primary bevel and a thin convex grind as a secondary bevel. It's a great cutter, great chopper, and the edge is tough as hell.

Convex edges are easy to maintain in the field with a simple 600 grit sandpaper in the palm of my hand (plus a camping mat if I carry it), and using my pants as a strop.

I do use moras with flat grinds for finer work and bushcraft stuff. Those are extreme cutters (because they have NO secondary bevel) but the edge is not bullet proof. Besides a thin convex edge (like on the F1) cuts almost as well...

Cheers,

David

 

[Gossman Knives]

David you pretty much described how I do my convex grinds. I put a primary convex grind on the blade, then after heat treat, I put a thin secondary convex edge on it. I do this even on the smaller 3 and 4 inch blades. I for one like the convex grind the best, but it is still such a controversial grind. If the secondary edge is done right, you can sliver paper with it. That is one test I do after putting the final cutting edge on a convexed knife.
Scott

 

[Gossman Knives]

Here's a pic of two blades ready for heat treat. They are convex ground D2. One is a 6 1/2" x 1 1/2" blade, the other is a 5" x 1 1/4" blade. Both are 3/16" thick. These are customer ordered knives. The grinds go 3/4 up the blade (hard to tell in the pic) I leave .040 of an inch at the edge for the secondary convex bevel. I may even take that a tad thinner before the final edge.

Scott

 

[Moine]

Scott,

That geometry looks pretty much bullet proof. Neat design.

Cheers,

David

 

[Gossman Knives]

Thank you David. I gone through alot to try to get my convex grind to where it is tough enough to chop and split but still sliver paper and shave hair. I posted these pics in another thread on this forum but will post again to show how well the grind on a 7 1/2" blade splits wood.

Scott

 

[tknife]

I agree, those designs look great. When looking at how my tastes in knives has evolved, all of my field blades are simple in design and function perfectly.

 

[shpshooter]

I think you have a winner there, what does your heat treat on the D2 usually bring the Rc too? Also, what do they cost?

 

[Gossman Knives]

I think you have a winner there, what does your heat treat on the D2 usually bring the Rc too? Also, what do they cost?

Heat treating is the only thing I outsource. It's more time and cost effective for me to outsource. I do everything else in house from profiling the blade to dying the sheath. I have my D2 and A2 blades heat and cryo treated to 58rc. Any higher then that and they become brittle for hard use. As far as prices, that depends on knife size, handle material options and if a guard is added. Prices between $185.00 and $250.00. Bigger camp/survival knives are higher.
Scott