Survival/Bushcraft/camp hard work blade. Too much HRC?

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Staind97

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Jan 21, 2017
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Hi guys, recently i have decided to buy a new blade for my travels in the woods, my max budget it's around 300-350 € (318$-372$).
I decided to buy a craft knife for a better quality.

Initially i was oriented towards this : https://www.coltelleriacollini.it/w...rk-burgundy-micarta-coltello-artigianale.html, the Wander Tactical Dimorphodon, is a big blade made of D2.
(I want a big blade cause i take with me only one knife, so i need minimum 7 inches and max an 8 inches)

But before to see the wander tactical, i saw some Japanese craft blades of Takeshi Saji.
- https://www.coltelleriacollini.it/takeshi-saji-mikaduki-180-black-coltello-artigianale.html
- https://www.coltelleriacollini.it/takeshi-saji-musashi-140-coltello-artigianale.html (there is a version of this whit a 7 inch blade)

Some of my friend in Italy however told me that 64 HRC are too many, because whith so high hardness the blade edge probably chipping when shock whit rocks in the ground, and it is known that an inox whit so high hardness probably would break without damascus.

Many people however buy this knife for hard work on the camp, because the blade is in damascus.
So i would ask to you,for a damask toughness are okay? Or it would break during hard work and stress?

Thanks very much at all, greetings from Italy!
P.S. Just a 2° question, is D2 Steel a good steel for big knives?
Cause in a YouTube comment i read that isn't!
But i think that the Wander Tactical are good knives!
 
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In the knifemaker's forum you can browse available knives from the custom knifemakers here and either make a purchase or find a maker to contact if you would like to have something specific made for you.

I don't have any experience with the specific knives you are looking at, but the hrc concerns are generally correct, although to some extent the specific alloy, ht protocol, and grind geometry will determine how high the hardness can be run while still allowing for hard use. For example, D2 is not a particularly tough steel, but can and is used for large blades. It wouldn't be my first choice, but it seems to work fine assuming it's not run too hard or ground too thin.

I tend to personally prefer Busse knives for the most part for my large hard-use knives, but another one I've been impressed with and mention often is the Terävä Skrama. They are purpose built for the type of role you seem to be interested in and are sold from Finland for ~€65 with the basic sheath option. They're currently out of stock but the retailer expects to have a new shipment next week. They are basic, but I would still call them high quality, it seems like a very well thought out and executed design.

Best of luck with your search!
 
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inkynate said:
In the knifemaker's forum you can browse available knives from the custom knifemakers here and either make a purchase or find a maker to contact if you would like to have something specific made for you.

I don't have any experience with the specific knives you are looking at, but the hrc concerns are generally correct, although to some extent the specific alloy, ht protocol, and grind geometry will determine how high the hardness can be run while still allowing for hard use. For example, D2 is not a particularly tough steel, but can and is used for large blades. It wouldn't be my first choice, but it seems to work fine assuming it's not run too hard or ground too thin.

I tend to personally prefer Busse knives for the most part for my large hard-use knives, but another one I've been impressed with and mention often is the Terävä Skrama. They are purpose built for the type of role you seem to be interested in and are sold from Finland for ~€65 with the basic sheath option. They're currently out of stock but the retailer expects to have a new shipment next week. They are basic, but I would still call them high quality, it seems like a very well thought out and executed design.

Best of luck with your search!
Click to expand...
Thanks for u help mate!
I get it that if is made good, also a D2 that isn't a "first choice" can make good knife.

I'll look the Terava!
 
64 I harder than I want in an outdoor knife. I would be fine with 59 or 60 but I find for many knives I prefer 56 to 58 for ease of sharpening.
 
inkynate said:
No problem man, the Skrama review thread is here if you're interested.
Click to expand...
Thanks.

I see the Busse Hellrazor and now i'm undecided between the wander and the busse.

You know where it is sold ? (the busse)
I mean some internet sites or if i can olny buy from busse website.
 
Busse is kind of it's own world. The sell knives directly through their Website, but pretty much everything is sold in limited runs on a pre-order basis. Your best bets would be to sign up for their newsletter to be notified when they start offering pre-orders again and also to browse the dedicated Busse section of the Exchange here. I saw some Hell Razors listed there recently but don't know if any are still available. I have one of the recent "Battle Grade" Hell Razors in SR-101 steel (similar to 52100).

Pictured here with my B8LE in INFI:

2vctes6.jpg
 
With the knives in your start post I'd not take the ones with a cordwrapped handle.
That's not very ergonomic and not comfortable for long time use imho.
D2 is a fine steel for outdoors use.

I don't know if you're Italian, but Lionsteel is an Italian company that makes wonderful outdoor knives in many sizes.
The Lionsteel M7 might suit you.

m7_ms_satin_blade.jpg


Hope to own one myself someday :)
 
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inkynate said:
Busse is kind of it's own world. The sell knives directly through their Website, but pretty much everything is sold in limited runs on a pre-order basis. Your best bets would be to sign up for their newsletter to be notified when they start offering pre-orders again and also to browse the dedicated Busse section of the Exchange here. I saw some Hell Razors listed there recently but don't know if any are still available. I have one of the recent "Battle Grade" Hell Razors in SR-101 steel (similar to 52100).

Pictured here with my B8LE in INFI:

2vctes6.jpg
Click to expand...
It's complicated to buy one ahaha

Yes i know the model is beautiful.
 
knoefz said:
With the knives in your start post I'd not take the ones with a cordwrapped handle.
That's not very ergonomic and not comfortable for long time use imho.
D2 is a fine steel for outdoors use.

I don't know if you're Italian, but Lionsteel is an Italian company that makes wonderful outdoor knives in many sizes.
The Lionsteel M7 might suit you.

m7_ms_satin_blade.jpg


Hope to own one myself someday :)
Click to expand...

Yes i'm italian, and yes i know the lionelsteel and the M7 i have already an M5, it was one of my first knife, i love the M7 also and yes is a wonderful knife, maybe i can think to buy it, but i really love the Dimodorphe. But is also true that the M7 cost 240€ not 320.
But the M7 has received a lot of criticism, especially for rust. [http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/s...rrosive-Pitting-in-LionSteel-M7-satin-finish]
Thanks for ur opinion, i also think that D2 is a good steel for outdoor.
 
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So there's no misunderstanding, I'm not anti-D2. It can certainly be a fine steel for outdoor knives.

"Outdoor knife" is very broad though... If we're talking about a hard use work knife and want to anticipate hacking where there's contact with the ground and glancing off rocks or general use an an impact tool it's simply a fact that there are much tougher alloys available. Does it matter? Should you care?? I don't know, it just depends.
 
From what I've seen, D2 can't even achieve a hardness of 64 Hrc and max untempered hardness is 62-63 Hrc and a knife blade needs to be tempered. Max tempered hardness is 61-62 which is usually the range stated for D2 blades from reputable makers.

So I think I might be a little weary of a company claiming there D2 knife has a 64 Hrc hardness. I have no idea about the company but there are lots of knives coming from China these days that claim to be D2 steel. There are plenty of reputable makers that use D2 steel but I think I would make sure the country of manufacture is where you think it is.
 
The Wander is listed as D2 at 59/60. The other two are Hitachi Shirogami (White Paper) at ~64.
 
Ok, that makes more sense. I thought he was talking about D2 but should have looked further.
 
inkynate said:
So there's no misunderstanding, I'm not anti-D2. It can certainly be a fine steel for outdoor knives.

"Outdoor knife" is very broad though... If we're talking about a hard use work knife and want to anticipate hacking where there's contact with the ground and glancing off rocks or general use an an impact tool it's simply a fact that there are much tougher alloys available. Does it matter? Should you care?? I don't know, it just depends.
Click to expand...
For example? So i learn sometingh.
I understand anyway what do you mean.
There are more suitable alloys, but the D2 remains a good choice.
 
FlaMtnBkr said:
Ok, that makes more sense. I thought he was talking about D2 but should have looked further.
Click to expand...

Too many HRC for a outdoor knives.
I don't need 64 HRC, so 59/60 of a D2 steel is perfetc for me, furthermore i think that for a large blade an excessive hard steel would make the knife failing. In fact many constructor prefer carbon steel for large knife instead of stainless.
 
FlaMtnBkr said:
From what I've seen, D2 can't even achieve a hardness of 64 Hrc and max untempered hardness is 62-63 Hrc and a knife blade needs to be tempered. Max tempered hardness is 61-62 which is usually the range stated for D2 blades from reputable makers.

So I think I might be a little weary of a company claiming there D2 knife has a 64 Hrc hardness. I have no idea about the company but there are lots of knives coming from China these days that claim to be D2 steel. There are plenty of reputable makers that use D2 steel but I think I would make sure the country of manufacture is where you think it is.
Click to expand...

http://www.bucorp.com/media/D2_data_sheet_09032013.pdf

66hrc untempered if it has been austenized at 1900-1950 F

I was curious so I thought I'd share.
 
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