Survival/Bushcraft/camp hard work blade. Too much HRC?

Guess I'm still old school. All of my hard use outdoor blades are 1095 hardened to around 57, 58ish. I've been using 1095 for 40 yrs and have always been happy with the results no matter what the task. I have a Sprig in s90v but it won't see any hard use.
 
inkynate said:
I think the video primarily shows is how well D2 can perform with a very good custom heat treat, but even then it's hard to understand why you would choose it for a large blade where toughness is desired over something that would perform even better given the same level of attention.

Cost is one potential factor, but the Wander isn't an inexpensive knife. At that price point, you should be able to get pretty much whatever you want. Not to even say it's a bad knife, I just don't know as I know nothing about the company. On the other two, just personal preference, but I wouldn't pay that kind on money for a blade with a basic looking paracord-wrap handle and I would have the same concerns about using them for impact work as I do with D2.

Here is a related thread I found that shows sort of the worst case scenario. Bluntcut chimed in there as well. It's hard to draw any conclusions from the example since the failure might have been driven by factors other than the alloy, but you may find it interesting:

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/1452898-viper-carnera-chipping
Click to expand...

I saw this video, cause the maker have tested also the dimodorphe.
I contact also Wander Tactical and they told me that i can make the knife also with other steel if i want, so what do you suggest me?
 
bluntcut said:
Yep, exactly why I recommended to OP to look into better option for the money. But have to say, the WT D2 looks like a very nice tactical fighter.


WT D2 6.5mm/0.25" thick and good overall heavy fighter, except for a major potential flaw
rjO3Hko.png

Would this thing break in use? Nah, unless you use it as a step ladder. Would it chips out in huge haft-moon shape? Nope, unless hard baton through a large twisty knot, which would mess-up tough blade as well. Would you buy it? Nil.

Beside the super important of design & geometry... Large blade dulling is mainly by deformation (dent,roll,chip,smush) not abrasion/wear. So optimal edge/steel would be sufficient+30% extra toughness and as strong as possible, thereby minimize the deformation size/magnitude when encounter damaging interactions. Wear resistance from carbide effectiveness increase as cutting stroke increase in draw/saw motion.

BCMW/my ht is quite different from normal ht. From demonstrated videos, clearly ht played a big role... Insightful mind would see the performance gap between D2 & M4 is actually not that large, when ht is very good.

When makers/ht-services use normal/industry/mfg-recommend ht protocol, certain steels are designed for easy to get good(not excellent) outcome. Cruwear/zwear/pd1, 4v, vanadis4e, m4, etc around 61rc would be quite strong and plenty of toughness for large blades. Coated low Cr% steels (W2, 52100, 80CrV2, 1084, 1075, ...) are good, plus super easy for field sharpening.

Bottom line - if you are looking for a durable high performing large blade, do a little more research/reading. Otherwise, buy + enjoy (life is short) and just consider first couple big purchases as learning experience...
Click to expand...

20160915_164816_1.jpg

I know that the "hole" on the blade is a potential flaw, already previously i knew that i would have bought without.
Are customizable.
So the " major potential flaw" is excluding.
"Nah, unless you use it as a step ladder" Initially i reserch a blade that could do this, but when i was looking for a 16cm blade (Fallkniven A1-ESEE 6), a large blade it is too fragile to be used as a ladder.

"if you are looking for a durable high performing large blade, do a little more research/reading."
Thanks for ur council, have u some blade to reccomend?
Cause at this price, i found no knife with an 7-8 inch blade and with best steel of this.
And i also like very much the geometry of this.
So, since I have written at WT, and they told me that i can choose other steel if i want, what do you suggest me?

How i can resize the imagine? Sorry.
 
bluntcut said:
+1. M7 has better/useful design for less money. Along with thinner blade and 60/61rc could/maybe/big-speculation be a sign of better ht ... Minor design issue with rubber finger guard, it might detach from impact.
Click to expand...

Yeah but i know that have some problem whit rust.
P.S. I would be very happy if you could answer my previous answer, because you really look very prepared and I would be happy to learn.
Sorry to bother you and thank you again.
 
Ergonomics WT model handles is disastrous ... two or three good kick and your wrists will feel it.
Rusting steel and mentioned here should not worry D2 is semi stainless but not even Sleipner does not rust quickly.
Example the handle that would be more suitable
25q57xi.jpg
 
My first recommendation/choice for WT would be Cruwear/zwear/spectrumwear/pd1 (~1.15%C and 8%Cr class of steels) ht with cryo and primary range (below 260C) tempered to ~62rc. Next would be Vanadis4E with similar ht but the blade need coating for better corrosion resistant. Of course, no hole - as shown in your pic. If ht w/o cryo & used secondary hardening tempering temperature, it loss some toughness and corrosion resistant, it wouldn't be a good choice if so.

If corrosion resistant is high on your list, then even coated blade, the edge will expose to weather... you want stainless steels(those with at least 12% of free Cr after ht). Aeb-l/13c26/etc is only viable option but hard to find any over 60rc for big blade... unless I ht it to around 62+rc.

Staind97 said:
...
I know that the "hole" on the blade is a potential flaw, already previously i knew that i would have bought without.
Are customizable.
So the " major potential flaw" is excluding.
"Nah, unless you use it as a step ladder" Initially i reserch a blade that could do this, but when i was looking for a 16cm blade (Fallkniven A1-ESEE 6), a large blade it is too fragile to be used as a ladder.

"if you are looking for a durable high performing large blade, do a little more research/reading."
Thanks for ur council, have u some blade to reccomend?
Cause at this price, i found no knife with an 7-8 inch blade and with best steel of this.
And i also like very much the geometry of this.
So, since I have written at WT, and they told me that i can choose other steel if i want, what do you suggest me?

How i can resize the imagine? Sorry.
Click to expand...
 
bluntcut said:
My first recommendation/choice for WT would be Cruwear/zwear/spectrumwear/pd1 (~1.15%C and 8%Cr class of steels) ht with cryo and primary range (below 260C) tempered to ~62rc. Next would be Vanadis4E with similar ht but the blade need coating for better corrosion resistant. Of course, no hole - as shown in your pic. If ht w/o cryo & used secondary hardening tempering temperature, it loss some toughness and corrosion resistant, it wouldn't be a good choice if so.

If corrosion resistant is high on your list, then even coated blade, the edge will expose to weather... you want stainless steels(those with at least 12% of free Cr after ht). Aeb-l/13c26/etc is only viable option but hard to find any over 60rc for big blade... unless I ht it to around 62+rc.
Click to expand...

Sir, I think Staind 97 are italian, so the steel options are very limited :( geographically i am much closer to him so I understand the situation to that I would not say that is able to full custom making.
I hope I'm wrong ;)

And WA do Cryo HT just looked his web site...too much tactical :eek:
 
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chumaman said:
Ergonomics WT model handles is disastrous ... two or three good kick and your wrists will feel it.
Rusting steel and mentioned here should not worry D2 is semi stainless but not even Sleipner does not rust quickly.
Example the handle that would be more suitable
25q57xi.jpg
Click to expand...
I see a review and the user told that are pretty good.
But thanks for mentioning it, and for showing me what you think is best.

There are many italian guy with M7 that have complained of how quickly the rust appear.
And same on this forum there was a post.
This : http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/s...orrosive-Pitting-in-LionSteel-M7-satin-finish
 
bluntcut said:
My first recommendation/choice for WT would be Cruwear/zwear/spectrumwear/pd1 (~1.15%C and 8%Cr class of steels) ht with cryo and primary range (below 260C) tempered to ~62rc. Next would be Vanadis4E with similar ht but the blade need coating for better corrosion resistant. Of course, no hole - as shown in your pic. If ht w/o cryo & used secondary hardening tempering temperature, it loss some toughness and corrosion resistant, it wouldn't be a good choice if so.

If corrosion resistant is high on your list, then even coated blade, the edge will expose to weather... you want stainless steels(those with at least 12% of free Cr after ht). Aeb-l/13c26/etc is only viable option but hard to find any over 60rc for big blade... unless I ht it to around 62+rc.
Click to expand...

I think that i landed at the first indication. I prefer carbon steels, i will do maintenance to avoid corrosion.
I'll talk to and i'll see what they can do and what to advise me.
For now, they have been assured that the D2 is the best ratio quality / price, and they performed tests and in-depth studies reaching, together with an exceptional heat treatment, an excellent result.
I also need to add that they are confident in the quality of their blades. Their offer for this lifetime warranty, that is a big point in their favor than a small knife maker local.
They care that their knives really are working on the field, and like you said, it's probably so, even with hard work, the knife would not break.
But, always like you said, if there is a better choice, I want to know.
P.S They also have a video where in a test cut a bolt of 2,5cm [ 0,9 in ] without any sign on the blade.
 
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chumaman said:
Sir, I think Staind 97 are italian, so the steel options are very limited :( geographically i am much closer to him so I understand the situation to that I would not say that is able to full custom making.
I hope I'm wrong ;)

And WA do Cryo HT just looked his web site...too much tactical :eek:
Click to expand...

Yeah i'm italian, and i don't know steels that can be used, i'll see what they tell me.
I hope too.

Can i know what u mean for "Too much tactical"? ahaha Sorry but i'm paranoid, and let me know what you think of the company :)
P.S There is this version, made by "Blade: Full, Japanese-rolled stainless steel (San Mai) with sharp CoS to 61,5HRC in cryogenic tempering" own with Cryo HT.
https://www.coltelleriacollini.it/w...i-cos-black-micarta-coltello-artigianale.html , though this knife is very smaller than Dimo.. With this dimension i think i will buy an A1.
 
I'm not saying that is the best but is more appropriate(handle)
My opinion about WA...too much fantasy tacticool kind of a childish for my term.
Knives to see but not for frequent use.
 
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chumaman said:
I'm not saying that is the best but is more appropriate(handle)
My opinion about WA...too much fantasy tacticool kind of a childish for my term.
Knives to see but not for frequent use.
Click to expand...

Thanks for ur opinion, but i don't think so.
They studied with professionals for years to produce their products that could really work in the field.
 
Sleipner with decent ht would has corrosion resistant similar to 3V, PD1, etc... Vanadis4e will be ~40% less. D2 (according to my calc when d2 has low temper) will be 32% less than Sleipner (5.3% vs 7.8% free Cr). High temper D2 corrosion would drop another 15%.

Your linked thread about rusted sleipner with coated blade. And somehow you are ready to accept a coated D2 as acceptable. I understand you trust and like that WT D2 knife, so go for it - get the one without hole above the plunge line. Enjoy!

Staind97 said:
I think that i landed at the first indication. I prefer carbon steels, i will do maintenance to avoid corrosion.
I'll talk to and i'll see what they can do and what to advise me.
For now, they have been assured that the D2 is the best ratio quality / price, and they performed tests and in-depth studies reaching, together with an exceptional heat treatment, an excellent result.
Click to expand...
 
different tastes are a normal thing ... :thumbup:
however, would rather believe Moletta in any case
 
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bluntcut said:
Sleipner with decent ht would has corrosion resistant similar to 3V, PD1, etc... Vanadis4e will be ~40% less. D2 (according to my calc when d2 has low temper) will be 32% less than Sleipner (5.3% vs 7.8% free Cr). High temper D2 corrosion would drop another 15%.

Your linked thread about rusted sleipner with coated blade. And somehow you are ready to accept a coated D2 as acceptable. I understand you trust and like that WT D2 knife, so go for it - get the one without hole above the plunge line. Enjoy!
Click to expand...
Thank you for your advice, but still I will follow what you said to me and i will speak with WT to see if they can use those steels that you think best, and what they think about it.

Thanks, i did not know this, so i could play it safe with Sleipner, that is more corrosion resistant than D2.
But i don't understand this part :"And somehow you are ready to accept a coated D2 as acceptable".
Thanks again and sorry for the trouble mate :D

P.S One last thing, think is best with or without false edge?
 
Staind97 said:
I contact also Wander Tactical and they told me that i can make the knife also with other steel if i want, so what do you suggest me?
Click to expand...

I don't know this company but looked at their website, wandertactical.com. They list the d2 as being cryo'd and there is some warranty language to read. If it's the design you like the most, it may turn out to be a great blade and perfect for what you need. I really don't know. I also don't know what other steels they have available, the website only references their d2. Maybe if that's what they say they do best, and you want their design, just go with it. (I would prefer the Lionsteel as well between the two though.)

My only suggestion is still the Skrama :D They make it in a stainless 12c27 equivalent if corrosion resistance is important, but I don't see a restock estimate on those yet. Maybe at that price point, who cares if the carbon gets some rust/patina? I live ~600 miles from an ocean though, so you may have different needs. The point in the suggestion is that they're relatively cheap and come with a nice thin edge really made to work. You can use it hard and see if/how it fails and use that information to inform what you look for in the next purchase. :)
 
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