Survival gun.

Im surprised more people dont mention the ruger 77/22 instead of the 10/22 in survival rifle type threads. Wouldnt a bolt action be more reliable. Now I dont have any experience with the 77/22 and I have only owned one 10/22(deluxe) and the majority or the ammo I feed my rimfires is the cheap bulk ammo but wouldnt a bolt action clear up most malfunctions and be more accurate?
I guess the accuracy part is splitting hairs because some 10/22s are tack drivers. What do you people think?
Oh and Id love to see a over under 22lr/12gauge survival rifle.
 
:thumbup:I have a small Kel-Tec .22 in my Hiking/Bob bag with a 50 round box. Does anyone remember the S&W .22 Kit gun. I have one from the 80's, it was my survival gun back then. It's small and has a 4" barrell in stainless steel.
 

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ubet said:
Are you calling me out? I never said .5moa, that would be a little over .5", can be done though, right pistol, shooter, and ammo. You obviously dont know very much, and like so many gun people nowadays probably spend more time jackinfoff while looking at your fing gun and never go drop the sear. :jerkit:
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Well this may be true... "I don't know very much." Never have I claimed as such. I do know that you must have a talent that is not very wide spread. That said you are talented beyond most shooters. Also in a survival situation, when every shot counts, you need food on the plate, you are starving hungry, maybe, just maybe a rifle would be a better option. You would not be in an ideal setting, not have ideal self control. You may have a bit of stress.
So go :jerkit:. I may or may not be able to shoot that well on a good day, but when I am having a bad day, I know I can't.
I am not some arm chair warrior, I do get out and shot, I do live life.
 
My idea of a survival gun would be one of the CZ 452 Scout rifles. Incredibly accurate, simple tough action/trigger with a real world weight of around 4 pounds. Add a few spare magizines and different .22 loads and you have a practical little gun that is easy to carry.
 
I love my .22's. For someone who loves to actually shoot his weapons - a .22 is hard to beat for all around fun. As far as the perfect "survival" weapon... depends on what you are looking to survive and where. I had an 800 lb. bear that was really liking my property this morning. IF we were both hungry and the wrong one Pi$$ed off, I'm not sure I would have been happy with my weapon selection if I had picked my .22 (even with 30 rds) My H&K .308 SBR with a 30 rd mag different story.
As with knives, IF you want the one be all end all knife or gun to carry - it hasn't been invented yet IMO. Probably why they make nice rucks and duffles that carry a couple pieces. Now that short list is an interesting debate.
 
Stray Round said:
My idea of a survival gun would be one of the CZ 452 Scout rifles. Incredibly accurate, simple tough action/trigger with a real world weight of around 4 pounds. Add a few spare magizines and different .22 loads and you have a practical little gun that is easy to carry.
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I put my 16" barreled CZ452 Scout action/barrel into my Ultra Lux's stock (the Scout stock is too goddamn short for a 5'9" guy with monkey arms :o) and backpacked with it.
Great setup, BTW. Quick-pointing, comfortable to shoot, and (I lightened the stock up some) very lightweight (under four pounds, if the food scale in my kitchen is accurate).
 
myesque said:
Well this may be true... "I don't know very much." Never have I claimed as such. I do know that you must have a talent that is not very wide spread. That said you are talented beyond most shooters. Also in a survival situation, when every shot counts, you need food on the plate, you are starving hungry, maybe, just maybe a rifle would be a better option. You would not be in an ideal setting, not have ideal self control. You may have a bit of stress.
So go :jerkit:. I may or may not be able to shoot that well on a good day, but when I am having a bad day, I know I can't.
I am not some arm chair warrior, I do get out and shot, I do live life.
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No, its not a talent, its a perishable skill. And no, its not uncommon, it comes from shooting 1000 rounds a month out of one pistol and pushing ones ability, it does take a quality built firearm though. The old adage, beware the man with one gun, because he probably knows how to use it, is very very true.

You are thinking of only one survivial situation, out in the woods, by yourself, with plenty of game. Rifle wins, usually. But what about a partial economic collapse, where day to day (going to work) is still happening, or people still living in town. (Do you really think if everything fell apart, that you would be able to get out of the city (if you live in one) make it to wherever, and be just fine and that you and 1million other people arent going to all have the same thought at once, can you say traffic nightmare? Or how about you are humping it, open exposed, rifle screams threat, pistol, concealed you have the suprise on others not allowing them to get the drop on you. Its not what happens AFTER you get there, it would be what happens BEFORE that a pistol wins.) Pistols are concealable, easy to pack, can you hide an ar15 under your normal clothes without looking conspicous?NO! Pistol wins there. I would suggest reading some articles written by people that have lived through collapses in the late 20th century, they MIGHT have a better idea of what one would/will go through, than you. Because the chances that your are going to wake up one morning, and have been teleported to the congo, or somewhere else and need all your survival skills/gear is probably highly unlikly. Surviving is going to first be surviving the intial whatever, then you have to get out of where you are, THEN, do you think that the people that live in the hills or wherever it is your going, are actually going to want you there?

I digress....
 
I've always been taught (and adhered to) the mindset that a pistol is what you use when you don't have a rifle. Yes, it's possible that one can become very proficient with a pistol, and yes, not too many firearms owners shoot often enough to come near that proficiency, but at the end of the day the pistol's main "wins" are that it's more likely to be there (a pretty frickin' huge win, if you ask me), and that it's concealable.

This is where I think firearms like the chopped lever gun I linked to above, or the Kel-Tec Su-16 are screaming for attention. Small and light, so the user is more likely to have them at least near to them, and they're a lot closer to concealable. Until the rifle is reached (in the trunk, or the "bug-out bag" by the door, etc.,) the pistol is forced to suffice. So, just like in almost every other survival question, there's rarely a one-anything solution. We get as close as we can, often making compromises along the way. With a firearm in almost any survival situation, you have to agree that a shooter armed with a pistol is compromising a whole helluva' lot in order to gain those few big "wins", right?
 
rdgarbo said:
:thumbup:I have a small Kel-Tec .22 in my Hiking/Bob bag with a 50 round box. Does anyone remember the S&W .22 Kit gun. I have one from the 80's, it was my survival gun back then. It's small and has a 4" barrell in stainless steel.
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i had a S&W 63. took me a while to find one locally, got it and the trigger was crap, even after going to the smith to get worked on. traded it off... fortunately i did that befre spending the money to convert it to a round butt.

i'm considering one of the new airwight, ten shot .22 revolvers from S&W, just not in the budget yet.

there's a company that's coming out with a .22 conversion for the Kel Tec PF9 which would be tiny... i'm sure it would be fun, but i don't know about using it on small game. with the DAO trigger and short sight radius it might not be quite accurate enough.

i've got an Advantage Arms .22 conversion on a Glock 19 that would do the trick, and could be more accurate with a lighter trigger.

i think if Kel Tec made a P22 based on the p32 and P3AT, but with a slightly longer grip and slide, decent, adjustable, but not huge "target" sights that were not snaggy it could be a decent kit gun and should be VERY light.
 
223fmj said:
I've always been taught (and adhered to) the mindset that a pistol is what you use when you don't have a rifle. Yes, it's possible that one can become very proficient with a pistol, and yes, not too many firearms owners shoot often enough to come near that proficiency, but at the end of the day the pistol's main "wins" are that it's more likely to be there (a pretty frickin' huge win, if you ask me), and that it's concealable.

This is where I think firearms like the chopped lever gun I linked to above, or the Kel-Tec Su-16 are screaming for attention. Small and light, so the user is more likely to have them at least near to them, and they're a lot closer to concealable. Until the rifle is reached (in the trunk, or the "bug-out bag" by the door, etc.,) the pistol is forced to suffice. So, just like in almost every other survival question, there's rarely a one-anything solution. We get as close as we can, often making compromises along the way. With a firearm in almost any survival situation, you have to agree that a shooter armed with a pistol is compromising a whole helluva' lot in order to gain those few big "wins", right?
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^^^^ This for the win. A pistol is a good tool to fight your way back to your rifle. Someone said that once, just have forgotten who.

I dont know if it would even be possible, but a pistol platform, that could be dropped into a rifle platform would be a huge win, would probably have to be in 223 but its a good cartridge, like with anything, its all about shot placement.

In the end, the best gun to have in a survival situation, is the one you have on you.
 
ubet said:
^^^^ This for the win. A pistol is a good tool to fight your way back to your rifle. Someone said that once, just have forgotten who.

I dont know if it would even be possible, but a pistol platform, that could be dropped into a rifle platform would be a huge win, would probably have to be in 223 but its a good cartridge, like with anything, its all about shot placement.

In the end, the best gun to have in a survival situation, is the one you have on you.
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Your quoting Jeff Cooper( in your other quote also). And he is very correct. IMO.
 
junglecarbine.jpg
[/IMG]

British Lee Enfeild NO 5 Jungle carbine.
Light ,read very light. tuff& powerfull.:thumbup:
 
slowrie said:
Have been told these guns have notoriously wandering zeros. Only the jungle carbines. FWIW
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Yes some have. the problem is the heavy flash hider. But it can be lathed down or removed & new front sight added.

For general shooting & hunting they are just fine. The Wandering zere is at and past 300 yards. prob not good for combat . The British had/have a high standards for this rifle when it was designed and made.
It is a gem for hunting though. Sexy looking too for a bolt rifle ,IMO.
 
Looking over the Kel Tek PMR-30 I was very interested after seeing it on this post. I love my Ruger 10/22 and shoot that more than anything I have. I have considered getting a 22 hand gun for a long time. But then I looked at the price of the .22 WMR ammo and that makes it a no go for me. Reading about it alot of people said the same thing "why not 22LR" (on various online posts) so they have to be thinking there is a market there for a 22LR. I hope they offer it in 22 LR, becuase I would get that. Now the new shootgun, the KSG, I would love one of those (if it gets good reviews when it comes out). It look great and is a nice idea. 7+7 rounds, very nice and a good size for that much capacity.
 
ron_m80 said:
There is no perfect survival tool. Lets not let the discussion carry that tone please.

If this Kel-tec is near as precise as my other .22 pistol, I would have absolutely no problem carrying it in anticipation of a possible need for it to deliver some food or respectable safety. 30 rounds fully loaded, and just over a pound. I won't discount anything that delivers that, as worthless. Situational yes, but thats for another forum.

Sorry for the loaded topic (no pun). Its about the guns potential for survival duty in my opinion, same as that of the other guns mentioned.
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i has one :) pmr-30 goodness.

it's very accurate, good gun, has great ergos, fun to shoot to boot.

got a holster, just need more mags :)

in the late Fall (maybe), the RMR-30 is coming... an HK7 like carbine :) same magazines ;) yar!

33 feet, 25 rounds best of, target sticky is 3 inches diameter edge to edge

1117141804_QgqNF-XL.jpg
 
Personally, I think a 10/22 with an adjustable folding stock would be perfect.
Like tony said, the .22 caliber is very under rated.
 
txjigen8 said:
Personally, I think a 10/22 with an adjustable folding stock would be perfect.
Like tony said, the .22 caliber is very under rated.
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SIG 522 with folding stock. good to go. great price, very robust, easy to clean, available, and better yet? FUN!

the SU22s are also very reliable, smaller even. good pack gun.

both of the above use blackdog ciener conversion magazines, so if you ALSO happen to have a 223 with the conversion? off you go.

course, the 223 with both barrels, would be great for many applications.
 
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