Survival Situation: 3-$100 or 1-$300 knife

[skammer]

i don't feel that any blade is ever abolutely positively guaranteed not to break. a manufacturer's guarantee is more a guarantee that they will stand behind he blade and replace it should something unforseen happen. once you enter "the unknown" there are no guarantees.

i hate to bring this up but everyone raves about SRKW being indestructible. the reason i won't purchase a camp tramp is the handle design, which cliff stamp has noted that he worked one loose after hard use of mostly chopping. if that handle comes off in the wilderness, it doesn't matter how good the guarantee is because you can't take advantage of it.

with three $100 blades you can choose something for each task that will give you better versatility in performance, as opposed to trying to make one "super blade" do something that it's not optimized for.

as usual, JMHO

To understand how good your blade is as a starting point, the makers guarantee is a good indication. No blades aren't 100% breakproof as any blade can break. The question is can your blades withstand what you can put it through in a survival situation. Many $100 blades will not and have not survived the torture I give/gave them. Your experience is different I take it .


Never seen or heard of an SRKW Resp C handle coming loose and I have used them hard. SRKW sells micarta handled blades if thats an issue for you.
Even if a handle came off its still a viable blade just wrap it with material, a snapped blade is useless virtually.

With 3 inferior blades I can snap 3 different blades doing attempting the same chore a more expensive blade does well.

Like I said the discount parachute and insulin dept is down the hall.

SKam

 

[JTC]

My experience with cheap blades is not the same as yours and I know I beat on my for all they are worth.

The question was not about hatchets and multitools but knives.

Skam

Well then to more accurately answer the question. I would much rather have 3 $100 knives than 1 $300 knife. While a Becker BK9 may not be a very expensive knife I think it would give excellent service.

John

 

[grobe]

"I have seen a Camp Tramp grip loosen, it took a long time though and constantly heavy prying, chopping and splitting"
-Cliff

i can wrap the handle of a $100 blade as well. but why would i want to when i can get a $100 blade that will do the job and has scales to boot.
my point is that you have more versatility with three tools than one. use each for what it's designed for and you have little chance of breaking them. skip the hatchet for this thread if you prefer. use a $100 blade designed for chopping and if it fails you still have a solid fixed blade and a nice folder.

the makers guarantee is absolutely no indication of how good a blade is. we've all seen too many claims of the "ultimate" this, or the "best" that to view these statements as truth. i think that some of us will agree that we've seen moras outperform blades of higher value that were "guaranteed".

FYI if the ratweiler were a copy of the CT with only micarta scales being the difference. i'd have one. but i'm not a fan of the handle design alltogether.

do you teach your students that only a $300 knife will do??

 

[Booger]

How about three $300.00 knives?

 

[Gossman Knives]

How about three $300.00 knives?

LMFAO :thumbup:
Scott

 

[skammer]

Grobe your mind is made up its obvious, to each his own.

For someone who hasn't handled either blade you are very opinionated.
The resp C handle is extraordinary in its performance despite what Cliff reported. If Cliff's opinion means that much to you, you'd buy an SRKW blade or another blade type he liked and be done with it.

What do you recommend and why Grobe?

I teach my students to buy wisely and only gear they can trust their life with, that said there are quality differences. I recommend sub $100 blades but not many as I like to see them use 6 inch+ blades which limits the quality selection in that price range.

Skam

 

[Myakka]

How about three $300.00 knives?

I personally believe if your going to carry three $300.00 knives, you might as well throw in a couple of custom Reeves & Granfor Bruk axes and hatchets, and a few custom folders, hell that why were here. We all love sharp things

 

[grobe]

skammer-
cliffs opinions don't mean that much to me, but if he loves SRKW soo much and can still report that a handle has failed, i don't want one. i haven't handled the ratweiler either, but like i said, i just don't like the design alltogether. you're right...my mind is made up concerning these two knives.

i like alot of high dollar knives, but i feel that alot of that "high dollarness" has to do with being "custom" and guys wanting a blade from "so and so". i think that there are plenty of "working man's" knives that will do the job quite well. as to what i recommend and why, i've listed what i would most likely carry. i feel each of those options would perform very well within their respective limits. and yes every knife has limits.

what sub $100 selections would have people carry??

 

[skammer]

skammer-

i like alot of high dollar knives, but i feel that alot of that "high dollarness" has to do with being "custom" and guys wanting a blade from "so and so". i think that there are plenty of "working man's" knives that will do the job quite well. as to what i recommend and why, i've listed what i would most likely carry.
what sub $100 selections would have people carry??

I agree in that many customs aren't worth the money but some are, one must do their research.

I like Cliffs testing as he mimics my own hard useage like no other opinion.

You listed one fixed blade a pocket kife and an axe. Which was not the exercise.

For survival I like 6+ inches in a blade so this limits sub $100 blades to few.

I do not like to promote invidual blades as it diminishes an instructors credibility. However, I will say there are blades from CS and Becker that fit the bill of a hard use blade for under $100 that I have personally used.

That said there is no blade under a $100 that will substitute for one of my best blades no matter how many I am allowed to choose under any scenario.
I put too high a value on a blade as a life saving piece of gear to compromize quality and function.

You have to ask yourself, If money were no object and you are loaded what blade would you choose? More often than not people are offended by a blades price not the fact its custom or its performance superiority. With the dollar value eliminated from the mix choices change for many people .

Given the choice if all blades were free the majority would be lined up to get the top rated custom style blades. Few would want the so called "working mans blade". I pose this ? to my students who think anything more than $40 is too much for a blade and the answers change soon as they find out the blade is free.

This scenario goes for anything viewed too expensive or not worth the money. Few would keep their crappy cars if given a $50k car for free even though mins earlier they deemed said $50k car not worth the extra money.

At the end of the day I put a cheap blade in the same category of risk as a cheap parachute, its life threatening. Many do not agree with this so this is their problem.

Different strokes.

Skam

 

[Will]

3 $100 knives - more versatility.

Will

 

[WayneH]

I'd go with the three $100 knives.

One BK7 or BK9. I have the BK9, but when worn on my regular belt it's too long to strap to my leg. When I wear it on my cartrige belt, it's perfect.

One skinner with a five inch blade.

One utility knife with a blade in the 2 to 3 inch range. There are some awesome ones in the $100 range.

I love to look at the $300 knives. They are typically beautiful works of art that also show the promise of being indestructible. But I have to be honest with myself and admit that I would probably leave a $300 knife at home (on the mantel if I had one).

Yesterday, I took my BK9 outside just to cut down some sunflower stalks. My wife sent the kids out with some flower bulbs that needed to be planted in the sunflower bed. Instead of going into the garage and finding a trowel, I used my Becker and planted about fifty tulip and daffodil bulbs. The poor knife didn't complain one bit, and I didn't feel bad because I knew it could do the job and I could easily afford it's replacement.

(edited for P.S.)
P.S. A broken blade it not useless, you just need to use some imagination to give the remaining pieces new uses.

 

[numberthree]

3 $100 blades, no doubt about it. I consider loss to be a risk factor that must be planned for just like breakage. I have double redundancy for both factors with 3 knives. I also don't use my knives in a fashion that would make them candidates for breakage, which also lessens my focus on that particular factor somewhat...

 

[Ebbtide]

Hmmmmmmm a tough one...
A jack of all trades and master of none
or
3 dedicated specialists.

3 for me.

 

[sodak]

Booger stole my answer. All of my $300 knives have lots of scratches and most have their edges re-grounded (read thinned), and are modified in some way or another. None sit in a safe collecting dust. They're only enjoyable when they're being used. That way I know they're worth what I paid.

I think the assumption is made that if I knife is expensive, it's not used. With me, it gets used *much* harder!

 

[ras]

I compromised and went with multiple $200-$300 knives One $300 knife would be great for the few things it was designed to do well, but then we have all those other little things that it can do but not very well. If limited to $300 total, I'd go with a high quality big knife and then look at SAKs and Opinels to do small things.

Face it, most of us never use a knife so hard that it would be at risk of breaking. That said, on the off chance that I needed a prybar with an edge I bought a 9" blade in CPM 3V and liked it so much I bought its 4" brother too. Those two teamed with a Outrider SAK can do just about all my cutting (chopping or slicing) needs.

 

[Cliff Stamp]

...report that a handle has failed

Wow, that is the worst paraphrase I have even seen. Here is the origional post :

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3237360&postcount=15

I was responding to a statement the handles could not loosen, I reported that extreme extended use they can loosen.

It didn't fail and it didn't effect the function of the knife. Skammer, there is no "in spite of", it is one of the most durable grips I have ever seen.

I have even taken a Howling Rat and hammered on and with the handle to the point where the laynard hole ring was smashed in.

-Cliff

 

[allenC]

I would definitely choose 3 $100.00 knives.

And anyone that thinks a $100.00 knife is cheap or somehow inferior to a $300.00 knife is a salesman dream come true.

Don't buy in to the marketing hype.
The entire world was settled by men who used rather humble blades.

BTW, if you cannot survive with THREE $100.00 dollar knives--then your choice of knives is'nt your problem, the problem is your lack of survival skills.
And no $300.00 knife is going to save your bacon.


Allen.

 

[skammer]

I would definitely choose 3 $100.00 knives.

And anyone that thinks a $100.00 knife is cheap or somehow inferior to a $300.00 knife is a salesman dream come true.

Allen.

How do you explain broken snapped in half clean cheaper blades when prying with and more expensive blades (3 in particular) having no damage doing the exact same chore?

Explain this to me please. I would like to know why this is. I am sure its the smoke and mirrors of marketing.

At what price point do blades become inferior. There has to be a point right? Or is a $7 made in China blade as good as any other no matter what the cost?

ALlen, its not about skills and surviving with a balde its about surviving period blade or not. The quality of a tool just makes your likelyhood and chances better.

Skam

 

[Cliff Stamp]

Does this phylosophy carry over to parachutes ...

Consider a survival/emergency situation, you get to pick :

1) A guy capable of everything you could want, not the greatest at everything but can do it, very dependable. Understands survival/emergency and if you get a little short due to irritation/stress he takes it in stride.

2) Three guys, very good in their niches, not very good at much else and fairly flaky, you get a bit off with them and they are likely to leave you on your own. You ask them to do something besides their specialization they will easily get hurt/killed.

Which do you want with you?

-Cliff

 

[allenC]

Skammer,

"How do you explain broken snapped in half clean cheaper blades when prying with and more expensive blades (3 in particular) having no damage doing the exact same chore?"

Please, share the details of the knives that you are referring to.

Did they have the same blade-steel?
The same grind?
The same blade thickness?
The same blade length?
The same handle material and thickness?
Were all of the knives involved prying on the exact same item?

I'm quite sure that price alone was NOT the deciding factor.

Heck, a $40.00 dollar crowbar will out pry ANY knife that I know of--but there is much more to the utility of a knife than its ability to pry.
In fact, I am hard pressed to even imagine a wilderness situation in which one would need to pry something at all, but that is beside the point.


"At what price point do blades become inferior. There has to be a point right? Or is a $7 made in China blade as good as any other no matter what the cost?"

No, there is no "price point" where one knife is inferior to another.
You're making the mistake of equating price with quality.

Sometimes you get what you pay for, and sometimes you don't--sometimes you just end up paying more than you should for marketing reasons.

Consider Case knives:
Most of their traditional folders use 420HC or 440A blade-steel and bone or plastic handle-scales, yet they are consistantly more expensive than Camillus, Schrade, or Buck knives that use the exact same materials.

Another example:
Compare the Sebenza to the Benchmade Skirmish.
Both have titanium scales, both are frame-locks, both have top-notch blade-steel, and both have excellent fit-and-finish.
But the Sebenza costs more.
Why?
Maybe Benchmade can buy the materials cheaper.
Maybe Benchmade has a more cost-effective means of production.
Or maybe it's because of the cult-like status and marketing of the Sebenza.

Don't misunderstand me, the Sebenza is a great knife.
But there is no reason (other than the lack of a rational thought process) to believe that the Sebenza would fare any better in a survival situation than the Skirmish, or that the Skirmish would break easier or wear out faster just because it costs less than the Sebenza.

What I'm saying is this:
Price alone does'nt mean ANYTHING.


Allen.