Survival Situation: 3-$100 or 1-$300 knife

[grobe]

cliff-
i quoted your statement exactly in one of my earlier posts. the use of the word "failed" was my interpritation. if a handle comes loose in the bush, it's not going to tighten up later...it'll get worse.

as others have mentioned, using three gives you more versatility.

i guess you guys would chose a pair of gold plated channel-locks over a screwdriver, pliers, and an adjustable wrench to fix your vehicles as well.

 

[skammer]

Allthe baldes involved were all different in every category but not radically.


"I'm quite sure that price alone was NOT the deciding factor."

No it is not but is its one indicator.

"Heck, a $40.00 dollar crowbar will out pry ANY knife that I know of--but there is much more to the utility of a knife than its ability to pry.
In fact, I am hard pressed to even imagine a wilderness situation in which one would need to pry something at all, but that is beside the point."

Being able to pry is very important, this thread is not about survival education.

"No, there is no "price point" where one knife is inferior to another.
You're making the mistake of equating price with quality."

There are general rules of price point and quality dont be absurd.

"Sometimes you get what you pay for, and sometimes you don't"

Make up your mind there is a correlation between price or there isn't

"--sometimes you just end up paying more than you should for marketing reasons."

This is true for some but not all one must research.

"What I'm saying is this:
Price alone does'nt mean ANYTHING."

I dissagree price DOES mean SOMETHING and "usually" is an indication of better quality. This goes for "most" things not just blades.

Different strokes.

Skam

 

[skammer]

cliff-
i quoted your statement exactly in one of my earlier posts. the use of the word "failed" was my interpritation. if a handle comes loose in the bush, it's not going to tighten up later...it'll get worse.

as others have mentioned, using three gives you more versatility.

i guess you guys would chose a pair of gold plated channel-locks over a screwdriver, pliers, and an adjustable wrench to fix your vehicles as well.

No, of course not. But my tool set costs many times more (and has a lifetime warranty no questions) than a cheapo set you can get in any mass market store.

See the point here? There is quality and there is quality and usually price is one indicator among many.

Skam

 

[grobe]

there are knives for under $100 that have the "no questions asked" warranty. and i say that three of these are better than one that costs three times as much.

JMHO

 

[skammer]

there are knives for under $100 that have the "no questions asked" warranty. and i say that three of these are better than one that costs three times as much.

JMHO

Fair enough, lets agree to disgree.

Skam

 

[Cliff Stamp]

... if a handle comes loose in the bush, it's not going to tighten up later...it'll get worse.

It isn't going to simply "come loose in the bush" that is a gross misinterpretation of what I wrote.

It took months of continued heavy use, prying, hammering and throwing, to develop enough give for me to feel it, insignificant in influence. During which time other knives would have long since been shattered/bent and all the CT did was develop a slight handle give.

The Becker grips for example would have been destroyed, cord grips on Strider's long gone, any natural handle bone/wood, would not have lasted even a week and even micarta/g10 handles would be chipped/cracked. So if you are going to exclude that knife there isn't much you would not.

As noted, the handle can't come off the knife due to tang construction and it is covered under warrenty, so it could have been addressed had I felt the need.

I gave the knife to someone who wanted such a blade last year, they didn't even notice the handle issue, and it has not got any worse because they don't stress it nearly as hard as my brother used to - few people would, I don't come close to give you a general idea of how demanding he can be.

-Cliff

 

[rnr]

Consider a survival/emergency situation, you get to pick :

1) A guy capable of everything you could want, not the greatest at everything but can do it, very dependable. Understands survival/emergency and if you get a little short due to irritation/stress he takes it in stride.

2) Three guys, very good in their niches, not very good at much else and fairly flaky, you get a bit off with them and they are likely to leave you on your own. You ask them to do something besides their specialization they will easily get hurt/killed.
Which do you want with you?
-Cliff

So hypothetically:
one guy can make a fire in 20 seconds but can't do much else,
the other one can build a shelter, but would take 5 gallons of gas to get a fire going.
and the third carries the water filter. (yeah hokey, but it's the concept right?)
And if one guy gets killed, you don't drink safe water, or have a fire, or shelter, etc.

This is kind of the question I was going to ask. For your $300, do you get three of the same kind of knife or one folder, one big fixed blade and one small neck knife?

 

[Gossman Knives]

I think the bottom line in choosing a survival/wilderness use knife is buying from a reputable company or maker. Pick the steel and handle materials you are familiar with and don't worry about the cost. As has been said, NO knife is unbreakable. Everything has a breaking point. Buy the best you can afford. That goes for anything you buy.
Scott

 

[savagesicslayer]

I personally cary a 300$ knife with a 100$ backup.And a 60$ third smaller blade in my pack.
T.B.Tracker
USMC Kabar
Spear point Impact Kabar

 

[skammer]

I think the bottom line in choosing a survival/wilderness use knife is buying from a reputable company or maker. Pick the steel and handle materials you are familiar with and don't worry about the cost. As has been said, NO knife is unbreakable. Everything has a breaking point. Buy the best you can afford. That goes for anything you buy.
Scott

Most disagree with this exact point. As dollar cost is the #1 concern it seems.

Sad really.

Skam

 

[Ravaillac]

Point is there are plenty of very capable knife for $100 or around. Some $300 might be slightly better, but that "slightly better" will cost you a lot while not vital.
Plus nothing can completly prevent you from loosing your knife. If that happen you'll be happy to have a second one.

 

[allenC]

Skammer,

I'm still interested in which knives failed you and which one did'nt, and just what you were doing with them.

It might help others avoid similar situations if you could share that.

Allen.

 

[Cliff Stamp]

For your $300, do you get three of the same kind of knife or one folder, one big fixed blade and one small neck knife?

Usually people advocate tools which are fairly specialized based on the arguement that they can handle a wider base of tasks more efficiently. One of the points not well considered is that there is a difference between camping and survival.

There are lots of people I would not mind camping with but would not want in a survival situation because they don't react well to stress. Knives are similar in that I have many I use for EDC, but I would not consider them to be survivial knives.

As an example I have a number of folding japanese saws, these work very well. I gave one to my brother a few years back when he was cutting some trees around x-mas. He gave it back a week or so later cracked in half. He is a carpenter, familar with saws, and I went over the basics of japanese ones with him.

However a number of conditions added up, a little less sleep than optimal, some rain, a branch hits the knuckle the wrong way on a pull stroke gauging out a piece of skin, your buddy telling you to hurry up as he is freezing, all it takes is a slight push instead of a pull and now the blade is cracked off.

Greg Davenport talks about stress in survivial situations in his books, it isn't just what you can do when you are well rested, full, happy and confident that everything is groovy, it is what you can do and what you tools can hold up to when you are wet, cold, fatigued, hungry, high stressed, etc. .

As an aside just consider a situation where you are injured and have to give your survival knives to someone stuck with you. There are many reasons why robustness in an emergency/survival knife are a good thing. That being said there are some decent knives of this type less than $300, Ranger Knives RD series for example.

-Cliff

 

[skammer]

Skammer,

I'm still interested in which knives failed you and which one did'nt, and just what you were doing with them.

It might help others avoid similar situations if you could share that.

Allen.

Allen,

I have long ago decided that mentioning products buy name in a public forum is bad for business. It is something I try and avoid for both sides good and bad.

I will say this though. The ultimate test for a blade is wedging it into a log and prying it apart. In my course we do some prying and spliting to show how to get at dry wood for burning. I live in a very wet zone and this skill is important to learn. However it is hard on blades and is where most fatalities happen. If a blade can survive this its a big plus towards recommendation.

Skam

 

[Thomas Linton]

Misc meanderings of an exhausted mind:

>Glad to see this thread veer close to the edge of "flame war" but pull back.

>I hope this forum is for survival education in the broadest sense.

PRICE
>Price is not always irrelevant.
>Cheapest is almost never best value.
>The incremental cost of the last 5% of percieved quality is usually FAR greater than the first 95%. (Seiko/Rolex)
>That last 1% is a real bitch (even if we agree on what represents that last 1%).
>A TOPS Tracker USED TO BE a $300 knife.
>Price is often the function of use of the current Uber steel OR the current "Hot" maker/brand.
>Dork Ops.

PRYBARISM
>If ability to withstand snapping in a prying mode is the issue, I can imagine snapping a Becker Campanion. I just can't imagine it actually happening. I think my Raven would go far sooner - thinner by far and S30 to boot.

>Wanna try to snap an HI Chiruwa AK? I got one that's nearly 1/2" of differentially hardened 5160 at < $100.

A MODEST PROPOSAL
>How about three SRKW knives for $300? (I have two that cost $178 collectively.) Are we all happy?

 

[Fohmyn]

One $300 for me. If you prepare for all your equipment to fail, and buy cheap equipment, you are bringing it upon yourself. Now, with the kind of people on this forum, we don't really need to argue "Well what if that $300 knife was made out of plastic, only the handle was inlaid with gold", because we are talking pure practicality here. Imagining that you had researched and searched around the market, and came up with the absolute top quality knife for $300- I am willing to bet that knife is going to be significantly better than the top quality knife you can procure for $100. That is not the arguement, that is a simple logical statement.

Now, my reasoning for taking one knife of high quality rather than three knives of lesser quality, is that I want to have a tool that I am confident will not fail me. I would never set myself up to fail by buying equipment inferior to what I can afford. Trading off quantity for quality seems like a no-brainer.

 

[allenC]

So, by that logic, you would think that a large Sebenza (MSRP $385.00) would perform better, for survival, than a Spyderco Manix or Chinook II (MSRP $184.95) or a Benchmade Presidio (MSRP $180.00), right?

How so?

What can the Sebenza do, in a survival situation, that the Manix, Chinook II, or Presidio could not?

For that matter, what can a Sebenza do, in a survival situation, that a Buck 110 (MSRP $59.00) cannot do?


Allen.

 

[Booger]

I will stick to my $300.00 or even $500.00 knife. It would be one of my Chris Reeve, my Randall #18 or one of my Graham Knives Camp Knives. If the situation is tough enough to destroy one of these knives then I probably wont survive either. At least when the rescue group recovers my body they will roll me over and say "Damn, now thats a real knife. This guy had taste."

 

[grobe]

If you prepare for all your equipment to fail, and buy cheap equipment,

i don't see where buying a quality made $100 knife fits this statement. i wouldn't call buying an RD series blade being cheap or preparing to fail.

i just don't understand how some guys think that the only blades that will get the job done are $300 and up. yeah, alot of the $300 knives are leaps and bounds better than alot of $100 blades. but that's not to say that if you do your homework, you can't find a quality blade that will take alot of abuse for under $100. and given that these $100 workhorses are out there, i'd take three blades for more versatility.

 

[skammer]

So, by that logic, you would think that a large Sebenza (MSRP $385.00) would perform better, for survival, than a Spyderco Manix or Chinook II (MSRP $184.95) or a Benchmade Presidio (MSRP $180.00), right?
How so?
What can the Sebenza do, in a survival situation, that the Manix, Chinook II, or Presidio could not?
For that matter, what can a Sebenza do, in a survival situation, that a Buck 110 (MSRP $59.00) cannot do?
Allen.

Allen, A folder is not part of this scenario as far as I am concerned because its nearly useless. As far as I am aware there isn't a folder I can't snap at a pivot point prying it in short order. Utterly useless. IF there is send it to me and I will test it for you. .

As far as equalizing a CR folder to a spyderco, Allen you need to read the blade forums a little more before palying the $60 folder is better than a quality folder game. NO FOLDER IS A SURVIVAL BLADE PERIOD.
Allen, you must shop at Wallmart for the points .

Skam