Survival v. Bushcraft - What is the difference?

I think the bottom line is if you are planning on "surviving" and focusing all your energy on acquiring pieces of gear that might be needed you are perhaps enjoying a collecting hobby but nothing more.

If you enjoy camping, whether backpacking in or driving in, you are already developing a skillset and comfort level as well as an equipment set that will serve you well during any natural disaster.

I've never met a survivalist/prepper in a public campground, but I've met plenty of families with small children. My money's on the latter, not the guys with bunkers of crap and no desire to leave the house.
 
Isn't bushcraft a phrase made popular by British campers

Bushcraft I believe originally comes from the The South African War of 1899-1902 (Boer Wars) and from the Dutch settlers or possibly from the Australian soldiers. The Bush is the land and the skills that are needed to thrive in survive in that land.
 
I think the bottom line is if you are planning on "surviving" and focusing all your energy on acquiring pieces of gear that might be needed you are perhaps enjoying a collecting hobby but nothing more.

If you enjoy camping, whether backpacking in or driving in, you are already developing a skillset and comfort level as well as an equipment set that will serve you well during any natural disaster.

I've never met a survivalist/prepper in a public campground, but I've met plenty of families with small children. My money's on the latter, not the guys with bunkers of crap and no desire to leave the house.

Generally speaking, it is a bad idea to advertise that you are a survivalist or prepper. There are lots of stereotypes and you could get unwanted attention. Likely you have met preppers and survivalists and they just didn't live up to your preconceived image of them.

This is a great video on survival by a guy with plenty of experience out of the house:
[video=youtube;9CgRT1uBaJY]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9CgRT1uBaJY[/video]

The ten dimensions of survivability are worth posting here:
1. Temple
2. Tools
3. Territory
4. Temperament
5. Training
6. Thinking
7. Toughness
8. Temperance
9. Teamwork
10. Theory
 
3) While we are talking about outdoor survival/bushcraft, how many of us do have a 'survival kit'/list of items and protocol that they use to ensure their outdoor safety?

I never did until I got stuck with my wife out four wheeling. We started to walk to find cell signal and happened upon a guy turning around to head home. He gave us a ride. We had nothing but our coats. Another time my timing belt shredded on my Jeep. I limped back to the mechanic in the tiny town I live near with about a quarter inch of belt left and he fixed me up. But I continued on my way to go fishing in late October. I didn't see another vehicle that day. If it would have shredded completely out fishing, I would have been spending the night and I wasn't prepared. Those are typical of the most likely scenarios most of us are going to have to face. Not government collapse or zombies. Not even natural disasters, depending on where you live.

Now I have a big kit that goes with me everywhere I go. Twenty-some pounds of gear that will get me through a night or two if my Jeep breaks down or I get stuck. My wife always knows where I'm going and I always where the appropriate clothes for the season. I've got smaller kits in my Jeep and my fishing satchel for other times (day hiking where I can't take my big kit or when I go to town, for instance). I've got a tool kit in my Jeep too. I use the big kit when I'm out so I am familiar with the gear and practiced in its use. I'll probably never use it otherwise, at least I hope I don't have to.

I have no illusions of surviving in the woods for months on end or anything. The kit is for emergencies. I live in the middle of nowhere with spotty cell coverage and very few people. It works for me and where I live. It will keep me alive and relatively comfortable until help comes. Nothing wrong with prepping or bugging out depending on your situation. But chances are you'll get stuck in a snow storm for hours or break down out hunting, not face the end of the world.
 
I think the survival-bushcraft skills are hard to define. The TV show "Alone" certainly demonstrated that surviving in a relatively harsh environment is not pleasant. I doubt there are too many modern men who could comfortably survive in the "bush" unless you have access to modern supplies. I doubt the American Indians "thrived" as was said until they developed an agricultural base in a group situation with that being augmented by a ready source of meat (protein)--namely the American Buffalo.

Homeless people deal with surviving all the time. By definition, they don't have a home or regular roof over their heads. So for them, my approach to urban survival (getting home) does not generally apply.

The skills are difficult to define other than basic woodscraft skills. The tools are easier to define and of course they are situation specific or at least general local specific. Who actually wants to carve a spoon if you don't have to? I know I don't. If I did carve one, I'd certainly carry it with me if surviving in the outdoors. I much prefer some basic tools (knife, fork, spoon).

What tools are really important or difficult to reproduce from natural materials? Rock6 hit on this in another thread and I think this is an important consideration. So, I will mention a few things that I consider important.

Knife
Saw
Eating utensils
Plate and bowl for each person
Way to purify water.
Fire making materials
Stainless or metal cup
Something to store water in that is portable.
A metal pot, hopefully with a frying pan.
A pack of some kind.
Sleeping bag and pad unless you don't mind being cold
Tarps; or tarps and a tent. Not much for making a shelter unless I just have to. Why would I want to make a shelter if I have some way to protect myself from the weather?
Some cordage or rope.
At least a minimal first aid kit.
Fishing line and hooks and probably a barbed arrow point. Gee, this is starting to sound like the 10 items that the folks were allowed to take with them on "Alone". So, I'll stop here.

Another poster mentioned his 72 year old mom surviving without electricity for a week. My first thought was, you know, I should probably check out my old Coleman stove to make sure it still works.... just saying. Beats putting a pot on a barbacue grill any day.

As I said before, in modern society, electricity is life and extremely important. Add a generator to my list. If bugging out in a vehicle, I would take a small generator with me.
 
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Survival is when you are screwed, and trying to get unscrewed. Bushcrafting is when you aren't screwed, and probably won't be.
 
Survival can be a matter of seconds (grizzly charge) or weeks or longer. Statistically it is short term 3 days or less. I can't argue with Kochanski's definition which will lend itself back to the bushcraft knife discussion:

“Survival - when exposed to any potentially lethal stresses commonly encountered in the wilderness, death is very likely if these stresses are not alleviated or eliminated soon enough.

Survival Knowledge is concerned with understanding these stresses so they can be dealt with effectively.”

Bushcraft (Woodcraft) is knowledge beyond those stresses, specifically for added comfort and one's enjoyment. As both disciplines share a wilderness environment and many skills overlap, the knife can be one in the same. The one added difference to a survival knife is it should be considered "sturdy."

My $0.02
 
If you want to know what defines a "hobby" just take a look at the crazy variety of fire starting gear that you might find in some bush crafters kits that they pack for a weekend jaunt into the "wilderness" :D How many different ways does one person need to start a fire? Which is easier to lose? A box of waterproof marches and/or a Bic lighter in your pocket or multiple tins/ bags/pouches containing flint, steel, cerro rods, magnesium, fatwood, Vaseline inpregnated cotton, char cloth, whale blubber, pine pitch, plutonium, etc, etc?;)
 
Can you imagine a golf coures-esque "Bushcraft" park where you traipse from site to site starting a fire at each?

Bushcrafter This looks like a char choth lay Micheal; please hand me my tin.

Caddy Perhaps but may I suggest a chert stone
 
If you want to know what defines a "hobby" just take a look at the crazy variety of fire starting gear that you might find in some bush crafters kits that they pack for a weekend jaunt into the "wilderness" :D How many different ways does one person need to start a fire? Which is easier to lose? A box of waterproof marches and/or a Bic lighter in your pocket or multiple tins/ bags/pouches containing flint, steel, cerro rods, magnesium, fatwood, Vaseline inpregnated cotton, char cloth, whale blubber, pine pitch, plutonium, etc, etc?;)

That's what make it a hobby for sure. A bic lighter is about as reliable as anything and several stashed in a kit are almost foolproof. Add in some storm proof matches and a fire steel for fun, and you can build a fire just about anywhere, anytime. All that bushcraft fire stuff is just showing off ;)
 
So, even more simply, the goal of survival is to get out of the wilderness, the goal of bushcraft is to stay in the wilderness.
I think there was a time when your definition of bushcraft was correct. Though it was called "outdoorsmanship" or "woodsmanship" back then.

For some people it still is. Dave Canterbury would be the obvious example. Notice lately he uses the term "woodsmanship" more and "bushcraft" less.

Since bushcraft became popular (2005-8 ?? until present), it has become merely a bunch of isolated skills that most people approach as independent hobbies. The Alone show is the penultimate example of this.

It certainly is interesting studying the evolution of outdoors skills, especially from the Victorian Era to the present.
 
Bushcraft I believe originally comes from the The South African War of 1899-1902 (Boer Wars) and from the Dutch settlers or possibly from the Australian soldiers. The Bush is the land and the skills that are needed to thrive in survive in that land.

Well that sounds more exciting than camping:)
 
I have nothing unique to contribute but as someone who does a lot of car camping, backpacking, knife fondling and zombie apocalypse fantasizing, I'm enjoying this thread.
 
I never did until I got stuck with my wife out four wheeling. We started to walk to find cell signal and happened upon a guy turning around to head home. He gave us a ride. We had nothing but our coats. Another time my timing belt shredded on my Jeep. I limped back to the mechanic in the tiny town I live near with about a quarter inch of belt left and he fixed me up. But I continued on my way to go fishing in late October. I didn't see another vehicle that day. If it would have shredded completely out fishing, I would have been spending the night and I wasn't prepared. Those are typical of the most likely scenarios most of us are going to have to face. Not government collapse or zombies. Not even natural disasters, depending on where you live.

Now I have a big kit that goes with me everywhere I go. Twenty-some pounds of gear that will get me through a night or two if my Jeep breaks down or I get stuck. My wife always knows where I'm going and I always where the appropriate clothes for the season. I've got smaller kits in my Jeep and my fishing satchel for other times (day hiking where I can't take my big kit or when I go to town, for instance). I've got a tool kit in my Jeep too. I use the big kit when I'm out so I am familiar with the gear and practiced in its use. I'll probably never use it otherwise, at least I hope I don't have to.

I have no illusions of surviving in the woods for months on end or anything. The kit is for emergencies. I live in the middle of nowhere with spotty cell coverage and very few people. It works for me and where I live. It will keep me alive and relatively comfortable until help comes. Nothing wrong with prepping or bugging out depending on your situation. But chances are you'll get stuck in a snow storm for hours or break down out hunting, not face the end of the world.


Thank you for responding and sharing your story.

Your story reminded me much about a less fortunate accident, which is similar to your story:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Kim


The take away from this sad story are:

1) Use your cell phone to text help messages anyway, even there is no signal.
2) Have spare cell phone battery
3) If you are waiting for rescue, unless you are absolutely positive how to navigate and where to go, otherwise stay close to your car. It is much easier to spot a car than a person on ground.
4) Basic supply of warm clothing/blanket, clean water and some food in car.


For myself:
A) Whenever I am hiking or camping for a few days, I always let multiple people know my route, and when I should be back to respond.
B) And in addition, I always leave my travel plan, personal description, list of supplies and a footprint(tinfoil) at the windshield(So in case S&R people find the car, they would know what's up).
C) Finally, besides the car-kit and either a small/large kit on person, I do know and have a list of priorities on the kits to ensure I remember what should get done first.
 
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1) Use your cell phone to text help messages anyway, even there is no signal.
2) Have spare cell phone battery
3) If you are waiting for rescue, unless you are absolutely positive how to navigate and where to go, otherwise stay close to your car. It is much easier to spot a car than a person on ground.
4) Basic supply of warm clothing/blanket, clean water and some food in car.

For myself:
A) Whenever I am hiking or camping for a few days, I always let multiple people know my route, and when I should be back to respond.
B) And in addition, I always leave my travel plan, personal description, list of supplies and a footprint(tinfoil) at the windshield(So in case S&R people find the car, they would know what's up).
C) Finally, besides the car-kit and either a small/large kit on person, I do know and have a list of priorities on the kits to ensure I remember what should get done first.

I have resisted having a spare cell phone battery. I know realtors routinely have one with them. Something I ought to consider.

Nothing like advertising that you are no where near your vehicle with the stuff visible through the windshield. I worry about theft more than I do survival issues. But I guess it is a matter of the duration of your woods adventure more than anything. The theft thing REALLY bothers me. When fishing I keep spare rods and other gear inside my vehicle and these typically are not cheap equipment. I had one guy ask me if I had any duct tape to do a quick fix on his waders. He chuckled as I walked up to my pickup with a tool box (unlocked) saying that if I didn't show up he was going to take a peak inside my tool box hoping for some duct tape. I wouldn't have cared really. Stuff in there is important to me, but generally it is not expensive stuff. I keep stuff like jumper cables, baggies, coveralls, a hammer, pry bar, small hand saw, spare poncho, tarp, and some other work stuff inside. I probably need to inventory what is inside there so I actually know what's there.

The closest I came to having to spend at least one night up in the mountains was in Arkansas when I was trying to turn around my pickup on a grade and slid off or was about to slide off the road if I moved much more. After a few hours, some bikers showed up and helped me. I just needed more eyes than I had to get out of there without really getting into trouble as in down a steep bank into trees and so forth and wrecker time which might have taken me days to accomplish. Yes, I had basic supplies with me.

I generally carry a pretty good set of hand tools inside my vehicle if I am off the paved road. The Arkansas thing taught me not to take any chances or do anything stupid with my ticket out.
 
Generally speaking, it is a bad idea to advertise that you are a survivalist or prepper. There are lots of stereotypes and you could get unwanted attention. Likely you have met preppers and survivalists and they just didn't live up to your preconceived image of them.

This is a great video on survival by a guy with plenty of experience out of the house:
[video]lamevid[/video]

The ten dimensions of survivability are worth posting here:
1. Temple
2. Tools
3. Territory
4. Temperament
5. Training
6. Thinking
7. Toughness
8. Temperance
9. Teamwork
10. Theory


I think my point was missed entirely - most likely my fault.

In short, sitting at home watching vids and planning for disaster is a fun hobby but not particularly useful. The people making the vids and selling the books and survival equipment are marketing experts.

Camping and backpacking are activities that actually prepare folks with coping skills, experience, and equipment to handle a variety of unexpected circumstances with little to no drama. There is plenty of marketing of recreational gear but at the end of the day it's actually practical stuff.
 
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I have resisted having a spare cell phone battery. I know realtors routinely have one with them. Something I ought to consider.

Nothing like advertising that you are no where near your vehicle with the stuff visible through the windshield. I worry about theft more than I do survival issues. But I guess it is a matter of the duration of your woods adventure more than anything. The theft thing REALLY bothers me. When fishing I keep spare rods and other gear inside my vehicle and these typically are not cheap equipment. I had one guy ask me if I had any duct tape to do a quick fix on his waders. He chuckled as I walked up to my pickup with a tool box (unlocked) saying that if I didn't show up he was going to take a peak inside my tool box hoping for some duct tape. I wouldn't have cared really. Stuff in there is important to me, but generally it is not expensive stuff. I keep stuff like jumper cables, baggies, coveralls, a hammer, pry bar, small hand saw, spare poncho, tarp, and some other work stuff inside. I probably need to inventory what is inside there so I actually know what's there.

The closest I came to having to spend at least one night up in the mountains was in Arkansas when I was trying to turn around my pickup on a grade and slid off or was about to slide off the road if I moved much more. After a few hours, some bikers showed up and helped me. I just needed more eyes than I had to get out of there without really getting into trouble as in down a steep bank into trees and so forth and wrecker time which might have taken me days to accomplish. Yes, I had basic supplies with me.

I generally carry a pretty good set of hand tools inside my vehicle if I am off the paved road. The Arkansas thing taught me not to take any chances or do anything stupid with my ticket out.


I think it is wise to take precaution about personal safety and belongings, and it is a balance of risk/reward in the end. I always put away all my supplies in my trunk, and only leave that note(folded up, usually under a foot-print tin foil) at windshield. I figure if someone wants to break the window and steal my car, they will do it either with or without that note, but not leaving that note may severely underscore my chances of getting rescued when I really do need it.
 
Hi. Very interesting thread. Thanks for all the comments, pleasure to read through :thumbup:. I agree with most of those, cannot add very much. I have always considered bushcraft and survival very different things.

Bushcraft is, for me, a set of basic skills to be able to manage an outdoor living, basically “off grid”, as they say it today. One can learn how to start a fire, to build a shelter, to filter water, to make containers, to fish and hunt, to recognize and collect wild edibles, to prepare food, etc. Bushcraft is very much living "adapting" to the nature. It’s somehow comparable to the ancient hunters/gatherers life style :). Bushcraft is a kind of "outdoor sport", or a “culture”, if I may say something like this. It’s a decision and pleasure to learn and practice some skills which can be very useful in a wilderness scenario where one cannot rely on the commodities we give for granted in daily life. Bushcraft, in my opinion, is more connected with “surviving” rather than with “survival”.

Survival, for me, is the conscious and active overcoming of a life threat. Survival starts when one realize to be alive after a disaster. There are many dimensions of a disaster: environmental instability (e.g.: earthquake swarms, collapses, landslides, tsunamis, etc.); perceptual alteration (e.g.: smoke, sand, mud, rubbles, temporary blindness and deafness, etc.); physical and psychological trauma (e.g.: wounds, bruises, concussion, impaired breathing, anxiety, panic, etc.); physical and mental hindrances (e.g.: debris, flooding, lack of communications and information, air or water temperature, chest tightness, panic paralysis, etc.); death toll (i.e.: corpses are “dangerous”; death, especially traumatic one, it heavily affects the body and mind of the survivors). It’s not very common for civilians to train about this and building snares and carving spoons it’s helping very little in this fast survival phase. Maybe these are good skills if one enters the phase of slow survival, very rare anyway. Survival also, in my opinion, doesn’t give a damn about nature. It has different priorities. If my life is at stake and I have to signal my presence to get rescued, I’d set a forest on fire with tanks of gasoline, if they were available. If I am camping out some days in the woods, I keep very attentive to make up small, contained fires, to properly extinguish them and to leave virtually no traces in nature, after I undo my camp.

This said, I believe it’s good to master some outdoor skills, some first aid skills, etc. but I am always aware these are just “good to have” things, these not necessarily will help me to survive a disaster. That’s when the brain and the will kick in and either one have them or not and the training possibility for this is, unfortunately, very limited for me anyway.
 
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